Southport Stabbing (63 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I have Irish parents and am shite at DIY.

But you do own a caravan and can read fortunes

 

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[nicksar]

This is appalling from the DM

Yes definitely on purpose & disgusting.

 

[Grendel]

Again, what people think is up to them.

That's very different to posting racial stereotypes on here.

If people want to have those thoughts then fine, but keep it to themselves or share it with other knuckle draggers on X. We don't want to see it on here.

Surely you can see the difference?

This is the issue - “we don’t want to see it”

Who is we? The whole forum or a certain group who’ve done a secret ballot?

You have said very offensive things which I object to but it’s not down to me to decide if it’s offensive.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd say even though they are thick as fuck, they don't actually think every muslim is a terrorist. They are just racist cunts who don't like them.

You're right, somebody who says their brain links terror attacks to muslim doesn't instantly class them the same as the cunts in the picture. The issue is that people try to make it exactly the same.

I think the general approach of freedom of speech until you are out inciting racist violence is fine. People problem is people who are anti racist jumping on stuff because they don’t want to embolden racists. I’m not sure you can stop that, like you can’t stop ESB calling everyone who likes Sheaf a leftist cuck. People have just got to toughen up when it’s just people saying they don’t like stuff. People are banging on about us sending people to prison for memes, but when you look it’s all a bloke who said burn down this specific place or chucked bricks at police.

Hello!

I was actually requoting from memory the gist of Trevor Phillips' C4 documentary and associated report that certain ethnic groups are associated with certain types of crime. It struck me as an incredibly honest thing to say, which at the time - as now, could not be said by a white person. I don't recall the exact wording but think it did refer to crime within the UK. He also said the same about economic activity (irish builders, Indian shop keepers etc.), but I'm fucked if I'm going to start looking for page numbers for a very minor Internet squabble.

PS: do any of you characters have jobs or spend time in pursuits other than bickering on the Internet?

And men are more strongly correlated with crime than any demographic. But if I called you a criminal based on that you’d understandably be upset.

Saying “This group is over represented in this area” is very different from saying “everyone from this group is like this”. Surely you get that?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I saw this alright. And obviously it does not mean all white English people are crooks and villains.

With that fact in mind, why the fuck is it so hard for people to grasp that not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Nigerians are fraudsters, and why is it ok for people to keeping saying that they are, and assuming that they are?

It isn't hard at all. The overwhelming majority don't assume anything. However, when there's an act where many people are killed or attacked , assumptions are made, occasionally incorrectly. But it's not rocket science to understand why .
No one assumes all Muslims are terrorists but you assume " people" think they are, whatever that means. Care to elaborate with a rough percentage because you give the impression it's most of us ?

 

[Grendel]

He should serve his crime in his home country, the Rwandan should be deported to the place of his parents birth, why should we foot the bill for these murderers and lunatics. Obviously this statement will upset a few on here but thats my opinion

So on this I agree with the first statement and not the second. The Stockport killer is I assume a British citizen therefore we have to take responsibility.

Am i offended by the second opinion? No I just do not agree.

 

[tisza]

This is the issue - “we don’t want to see it”

Who is we? The whole forum or a certain group who’ve done a secret ballot?

You have said very offensive things which I object to but it’s not down to me to decide if it’s offensive.

I'm in the Ricky Gervais school on how to deal with "offensive".

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To @Nick ’s earlier pojnt
As a young teenager in the mid 80’s me and a friend were mugged at knifepoint in the middle of the day at a bus stop in the centre of Birmingham by a large group of African Caribbean most likely British born lads. I also went to school with a couple of black African Caribbean lads who were really good friends
I have always been anxious walking through city centres but I don’t assume that all black people want to hurt me

 

[rob9872]

To @Nick ’s earlier pojnt
As a young teenager in the mid 80’s me and a friend were mugged at knifepoint in the middle of the day at a bus stop in the centre of Birmingham by a large group of African Caribbean most likely British born lads. I also went to school with a couple of black African Caribbean lads who were really good friends
I have always been anxious walking through city centres but I don’t assume that all black people want to hurt me

I dont know if its the religious thing, but whenever you post I always imagine Aled Jones from Songs of Praise. Knowing what he was like in the 80s you were probably asking for it

(Sorry - too soon? )

 

[rob9872]

In fact I think it was in the 80s that Boy George asked the same question

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think you'll find he did say it, but I'm not prepared to waste time digging around just to prove a point to what I assume to be a group of school sixth formers.

When it comes to mass stabbings in public places in Europe (and beyond), well yes, many such attacks are performed by Muslims in the name of Allah.

Not how it works. It you want to claim a certain person or type of person committed a crime, then the burden of proof lies with you.

You say this person said such and such, it's up to you to provide the proof they did. "Can't be arsed" to "waste time digging around" is not valid. Either prove they said it or retract the assertion that they did. I see afterwards you were talking about the 'jist' of something he said. Again not good enough - that's you putting you own interpretation on what was actually said.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not how it works. It you want to claim a certain person or type of person committed a crime, then the burden of proof lies with you.

You say this person said such and such, it's up to you to provide the proof they did. "Can't be arsed" to "waste time digging around" is not valid. Either prove they said it or retract the assertion that they did. I see afterwards you were talking about the 'jist' of something he said. Again not good enough - that's you putting you own interpretation on what was actually said.

He said that the nationality of the immigrant predisposed them towards different crimes. I mean, he literally said it across a range of nationalities.

Seems I'm in the minority of posters who see a real issue with that sort of thing being posted, but no matter-it's noted for future reference.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Genuine Question, do people really want to police thoughts? Everybody who thought that the southport attacker might have been muslim based on what they heard being racist? These are thoughts....

Obviously, people will have thoughts and conclusions, often right and often wrong. Acting on them and attacking mosques is completely wrong (even if it came that he was muslim).

Let's not pretend people don't have thoughts though. If people say they don't (both positive or negative) then they are lying.

It' not about policing thoughts. Hearing about an attack and thinking 'that could be x, or it could be y, is a natural response.

However when you then go out and say/post x or y did the attack when actually nothing is yet known it stops being a thought.

And when it is proved that x or y did not do the attack but you don't go and amend or retract your original statement to show this, then that is completely unacceptable, because then you're just setting up your own narrative and ignoring facts. And that is a position that is flitting its eyes at prejudice and even the 'R' word.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It' not about policing thoughts. Hearing about an attack and thinking 'that could be x, or it could be y, is a natural response.

However when you then go out and say/post x or y did the attack when actually nothing is yet known it stops being a thought.

And when it is proved that x or y did not do the attack but you don't go and amend or retract your original statement to show this, then that is completely unacceptable, because then you're just setting up your own narrative and ignoring facts. And that is a position that is flitting its eyes at prejudice and even the 'R' word.

let’s not forget that within hours of the attack GIMOC was on here aggressively stating as fact that the attacker was a Muslim immigrant fresh off a boat. That’s probably still up here, I don’t know.

 

[Grendel]

let’s not forget that within hours of the attack GIMOC was on here aggressively stating as fact that the attacker was a Muslim immigrant fresh off a boat. That’s probably still up here, I don’t know.

What is your motivation to be on this football forum?

 

[hill83]

So on this I agree with the first statement and not the second. The Stockport killer is I assume a British citizen therefore we have to take responsibility.

Am i offended by the second opinion? No I just do not agree.

This is it summed up effectively.

I am offended by it (second part) because how far down the line does it go. And then taking that into consideration for arguments sake it goes 3 generations down the line, I’m being cut into 4 pieces and sent around the world.

End of the day though. As someone stated before people can think want they want. But seeing this on a Coventry City forum that anyone can see isn’t a good look and in all honesty I’m out of this side of the forum.

Get Godden on.

 

[hill83]

And while I’m here. Fully aware this forum is Nicks creation. He’s not up to moderating it.

 

[Nick]

And while I’m here. Fully aware this forum is Nicks creation. He’s not up to moderating it.

Pretty impossible task really when there's such a range of views / political stances / ages.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Increase stop and search.
Increase the sentence for carrying one.

I know the riots were wrong but should people pushing a wheelie bin at police be getting sent down for longer than somebody carrying a knife?

and bring back the death penalty too I assume. Nick are you living in the 1950s? BTW the death penalty makes no difference to murder/serious crime in USA... just makes the raging right a little more smug and does not address ways of understanding the highly complex mix of socio-economic problems, mental illness, and personalities of the people that commit such horrible crimes.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

What is your motivation to be on this football forum?

Deflection again ole ole!

 

[Nick]

and bring back the death penalty too I assume. Nick are you living in the 1950s? BTW the death penalty makes no difference to murder/serious crime in USA... just makes the raging right a little more smug and does not address ways of understanding the highly complex mix of socio-economic problems, mental illness, and personalities of the people that commit such horrible crimes.

So you don't agree with tougher penalties for carrying a knife or stop and search,?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

People on here need to be very very careful about what they say on race/religion/nationalistic topics ... moderator please note.. (not saying anyone has been as bad as these two Neanderthals but couple of WUM accounts have come rather close on occasions)

Pair who posted race hate messages on Facebook jailed

Christopher Taggart and Rhys McDonald were tracked down by police after the posts were spotted.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[nicksar]

Pretty impossible task really when there's such a range of views / political stances / ages.

Almost impossible task especially when you actually have a job to do as well and a family etc.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

So you don't agree with tougher penalties for carrying a knife or stop and search,?

Missing the point again.... of course I do... just not the death penalty. Life with isolation, study, education and time to reflect is probably the best justice on balance for society. We need to learn what the cause and motivation and spot trends and patterns and tackle it from year dot in schools. There are people out there doing this research work through hospitals, police MI5/MI6, prison services and universities but its chronically underfunded.

 

[Como]

Practically the US does not have the death penalty.

 

[Nick]

Missing the point again.... of course I do... just not the death penalty. Life with isolation, study, education and time to reflect is probably the best justice on balance for society. We need to learn what the cause and motivation and spot trends and patterns and tackle it from year dot in schools. There are people out there doing this research work through hospitals, police MI5/MI6, prison services and universities but its chronically underfunded.

What are you on about then? You have quoted me saying something and gone off about something else.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

People on here need to be very very careful about what they say on race/religion/nationalistic topics ... moderator please note.. (not saying anyone has been as bad as these two Neanderthals but couple of WUM accounts have come rather close on occasions)

Pair who posted race hate messages on Facebook jailed

Christopher Taggart and Rhys McDonald were tracked down by police after the posts were spotted.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not sure any of those are worthy of prison sentences

 

[Nick]

Not sure any of those are worthy of prison sentences

Some of the sentences are very strange. They would have been better off carrying knives.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

What are you on about then? You have quoted me saying something and gone off about something else.

Blimey. Comment was simply about death penalty compared to life in prison.

 

[Grendel]

Deflection again ole ole!

Deflection from what Charles?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

So you don't agree with tougher penalties for carrying a knife or stop and search,?

OK. If we are playing that game... I support more carrying of knives and love stop and search.
In reality S&S has proved historically to be a great tool for prejudiced police officers, so instead I'd listen to the experts and advocate strong sentences, education, and maybe only searches where evidence of kids being in gangs or where under strong suspicions of committing a crime.

 

[Grendel]

OK. If we are playing that game... I support more carrying of knives and love stop and search.
In reality S&S has proved historically to be a great tool for prejudiced police officers, so instead I'd listen to the experts and advocate strong sentences, education, and maybe only searches where evidence of kids being in gangs or where under strong suspicions of committing a crime.

You don’t like stop and search then?

Shall we educate them that knives hurt people?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Deflection from what Charles?

There we go again...you can read.
But as you are being pedantic...
your comment on the post from ROS about Gimoc's main comment which you just ignored and focused on a minor aspect.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Pretty impossible task really when there's such a range of views / political stances / ages.

Extremists comments are easy to pick out. It's not rife on here and maybe really only been 1 or 2 incidents from immature weird WUMs who's accounts should have been closed immediately in my view. However I appreciate your efforts Nick and I would not want to do this voluntary role. We all (myself included) need to be more accepting of views but self regulate

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

OK. If we are playing that game... I support more carrying of knives and love stop and search.
In reality S&S has proved historically to be a great tool for prejudiced police officers, so instead I'd listen to the experts and advocate strong sentences, education, and maybe only searches where evidence of kids being in gangs or where under strong suspicions of committing a crime.

Look at it from the other view and it has stopped a lot of knife crime and stabbings especially in London. Why would you need to bring any prejudice into it? It clearly works or did work.