Southport Stabbing (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Not everywhere
That’s why I’m asking as people don’t seem to understand what people are entitled to as asylum seekers. It’s awful
Again I’d ask what’s the solution and are you happy with the implication and consequences of an alternative solution?
They have no access to healthcare
They have to get in the same queue as everyone else
I think Nick has made some stuff up about what they receive
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
How many of them are genuinely desperate though? This is a massive issue and what needs to be understood and figured out. Like I have said previously, we should help those in genuine need, as long as it is safe to do so (which is why it is related to this thread). The fact some people are incapable of asking questions such as this, and; why are they leaving safe European countries to risk it across the channel, is alarming.
I do think Pete is too nice, but he is engaging and trying to debate sensibly. You cannot just have a go at people that are worried about the current levels of immigration as it isn't helpful. Here is another story that broke literally yesterday. We are seeing things like this happening far too often.
Oxford: Decade in jail for man who raped 15-year-old girl
Nick
Administrator
What have I made up?
Like you said, people don't seem to understand what people are entitled to as asylum seekers.
@Sky Blue Pete
UK World leadership In action?
World leaders snub Starmer's call to issue show of support for Ukraine
As the conflict entered its 1,000th day, the Prime Minister had urged leaders gathering at the G20 summit in Rio de Janeiro to 'double down' on their backing for Ukraine.www.dailymail.co.uk
That's clearly not a UK thing.
And if you read the non Daily Mail version you'll see that the final statement was signed off by Lula without the approval of western leaders.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sorry so I’ve been thinking that you’ve been saying they get more than someone who live
Yep when applying they get £49.18 a week loaded on a pre paid card or £8.89 if they have food provided
Ok so you’re saying they shouldn’t get this they should be allowed to die if they need urgent treatment or just suffer with a disease and if they can’t see or have problems with their teeth fuck them they chose to come here they should find the money to pay
Ok I get the argument now
And the point being there isn’t enough of any of this to go round and they only come cause they get free stuff and they’re not in danger anyway
I suppose there is the thought that if they don’t receive anything at all they wouldn’t come but also if they don’t receive stuff and come they have no alternative but to commit crime to get money as they can’t work legally
I’m more leaning to the idea that you have to smash people smuggling and the hidden economy and deal with claims quickly and effectively
I should have added I’m sorry to be thick and slow to pick up on what you’re saying
Of course the basic minimum includes access to healthcare. Sorry Nick
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The facts on asylum were astounding in the percentage of people who had asylum upheld for the last year let me look
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commonslibrary.parliament.uk
That’s the other thing the number of asylum seekers is tiny compared to students or work visas
Nick
Administrator
Like I said, the Economy and People smuggling is there. Big contracts for hotels, medical care, transport, life jackets, legal advice, ngos etc.
So you're saying "give them free stuff else they will commit crime"?
Nick
Administrator
How many refused are deported?
There's a fair bit of difference between asylum seekers and people on work visas.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m probably saying we have a responsibility to genuine asylum seekers to give them what they need to survive which is less than we provide for benefits for people born here so that seems correct
If you have no food or money and you can’t work what would you do?
If you have no food or money and you can’t work what would you do?
Like I said, the Economy and People smuggling is there. Big contracts for hotels, medical care, transport, life jackets, legal advice, ngos etc.
So you're saying "give them free stuff else they will commit crime"?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep there is but the figure is a tiny percentage of the figures on immigration 2023 something like 6%
I think people are returned if we know where they’re from
Nick
Administrator
They do have food, they literally get all their meals for free in the hotels.
You are just focusing on how much cash they are given in their pocket.
Nick
Administrator
And if their passport went in the sea?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I don't think you read the article I posted. Surely this is one too many regardless of what you personally intepret the numbers as?
"The 41-year-old was granted asylum in the UK in 2010 following several failed attempts to deport him."
He went on to rape and impregnate a 15 year old girl.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sorry 11% in 2023
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Only those that get food get food and the money they receive is reduced. Many don’t
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That’s a problem isn’t it I don’t know what you want me to say?
Where would you return that person to?
How would it work?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It is absolutely one too many
But 41 year olds born here rape 15 year olds
And I don’t know how we can tell who will commit crime by looking at them
I recognise that grooming gangs were a particular section of the community of course and it was and is abhorrent how many men treat women
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I think illegals are made well aware of what they can get before they arrive here, and if not before, very shortly after. If they had to pay for healthcare and accommodation, they probably wouldn’t come here. They are quite happy to pay criminals a fortune for a place on a boat though.
That advice also extends to the benefit of having misplaced your identity documents.
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rob9872
Well-Known Member
Well aware that we're lucky to be born in a country not in conflict, equally aware that it's some not all who are a problem and also that I wouldn't swap my life for theirs (albeit some try turn their new surroundings into the shite they left behind). Why so many single men rather than families? I'm sure even the darkest of hearts couldn't deny genuine asylum to a family unit including women and kids.
At the same time, whilst we must respect the line is more than a bit murky, the first thing we need to weed out is to differentiate between those who are genuinely seeking asylum and those who are simply here illegally. Until we can get that part 100% accurate, we're frankly pissing in the wind.
At the same time, whilst we must respect the line is more than a bit murky, the first thing we need to weed out is to differentiate between those who are genuinely seeking asylum and those who are simply here illegally. Until we can get that part 100% accurate, we're frankly pissing in the wind.
Como
Well-Known Member
We are reaching a point where it is easier to identify the few people who could not claim asylum.
German Jews and Gays would seem to have a good case.
I am up for taking the piss out of the French as much as anyone else but not sure I am buying the need to offer asylum.
German Jews and Gays would seem to have a good case.
I am up for taking the piss out of the French as much as anyone else but not sure I am buying the need to offer asylum.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Ok that’s again a generic group and assuming a cover all for that group it’s good to avoid dehumanising others in that way. I do it as has been pointed out by Marty and others but it’s unhelpful
How would that work? Would we just have people on the streets?
I know people think it’s easy not necessarily you to just say stab the boats
Take people back to France
Don’t meet basic needs
These come with implications and consequences
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The only solution really is to provide internment camps in remote areas of the UK where they can receive food and basic healthcare.
Nick
Administrator
Would they get much spending money on a debit card though?
Exactly, I am sure if they were drafted into a camp it would put people off. It might cost money to build but it would save a fortune on hotels. Make them secure as well.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Might be becoming a necessary evil
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There would be no need to provide money - food and clothing can be provided and they can be detained until they are processed
Nick
Administrator
Is it evil?
Surely if they are fleeing being shot and killed then a warm bed, healthcare and food would be the dream?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Evil? Strange thing to say
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I don’t like imprisoning people without charge and indefinitely which I think is what internment is.
It’s also a saying necessary evil so I was using that too
Least worst is probably what I mean
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s a compelling argument that doesn’t pretend there are simple answers
tisza
Well-Known Member
So many single men because the journey is tough and expensive. But if they get asylum etc then they apply for family reunification for other immediate family members.
When Merkl "invited" people to come we had huge caravans of young men streaming across some of the land we farm as well as along the motorways.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
To put yourself in their shoes, yes it's expensive, yes it's tough, but if that place is so bad that I'm seeking refuge the other side of the world and no guarantee they'll accept me or even if they do it could be years before I not only get there, but to apply for reunification of my family and then get word to them and somehow they are then able to get out of the country but with no guarantees, then there isnt an even 1% chance I'm leaving them behind.
It might be expensive to get all the way here, but I'd be seeking asylum in the first safe country I entered and with my family. If we then decided at a later point we could move or even if there was a worldwide agreement to take some of those who entered that initial land illegally then fine, but to travel on their own, especially knowing the rights women generally have in a lot of these countries is not only selfish, but a bullshit story they are telling.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You need some form of containment
As I have said earlier on here the housing of asylum seekers in the hotel in Allesley has been a disaster. At one point both hotels housed them until the other was closed down.
A small community on the edge of Coventry has been ruined. Although it has now been restored to normality the local pub was for a while taken over with people drinking their own booze in there and taking drugs
I walked my dog down the main street and someone said he wanted to eat it (he didn't for clarity he was stoned) and another ambling around swigging booze. The Harvester had a drug addled female outside begging and shouting abuse. The shop had to remove from display washing items as they were routinely stolen.
Young girls were propositioned and sexual suggestions made.
This is the reality - a reality those who do not see it choose to ignore its happening.
You haven't read the full story, only the Daily Mail version.
Of course they sensationalise it as KEITH IN HUMILIATING SNUB BY G20
If it was Johnson in charge they'd have headlined with BRAVE BORIS DEFIES G20 WITH FIRM UKRAINE STANCE
The reality is neither are true. It has nothing to do with the UK's power, it was a collective thing.