Spent £10m on L1 players (2 Viewers)

[stevefloyd]

If you’re spending big in L1 you need to be signing U21s with potential.

TRouble is our last loan signing was Ayari (if memory serves me right) and although he was supposed to be good he looked pretty pants, so whoever was scouting the likes of Vik, Hamer and O'Hare we need to get back here pronto

 

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[SeaSeeEffCee]

Absolutely mental revisionism to pretend this was the prevailing view and is similar to how people view the current crop.

All three showed significantly more promise in their first full year at the club than any of the signings from last summer aside from perhaps MvE.

The prevailing view on Sheaf his first season was definitely negative. Read the replies and quote tweets on his announcement tweet.



Plus plenty of tweets like this that summer/end of the 20/21 season.

 

[stevefloyd]

What pedigree is that then?

He don't like drinking Pedigree and he hasn't seen anything from him probably in the pub he gets his Pedigree from

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Rudoni is the most expensive L1 signing ever over 21 aside from the lad Sunderland signed for £11m and sold for £7m or whatever.

Feel free to list these plenty of multimillion pound signings in their mid twenties from L1 who have gone on to justify their fee.

Toney cost £10m… I’m not going to nitpick this examples.

All of the L1 players we signed had Championship experience with the exception of EMC. £4.25m for a 24 year old player with 19 goals and 13 assists in the league below is good value. Just how you and others slated Wright and Simms last season, I believe time will prove you wrong on EMC too. For context, Toney scored 23 in 32 and was sold for £10m at 24.

You had 2 L1 CBs go for £3.5m and £4.7m in the summer - yes they were 21 and 20 so it’s the going rate for top end L1 players now.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The prevailing view on Sheaf his first season was definitely negative. Read the replies and quote tweets on his announcement tweet.



Plus plenty of tweets like this that summer/end of the 20/21 season.

No, he was clearly a ‘cut above’ from Day 1…

 

[wingy]

Absolutely mental revisionism to pretend this was the prevailing view and is similar to how people view the current crop.

All three showed significantly more promise in their first full year at the club than any of the signings from last summer aside from perhaps MvE.

Agree with the former, not so the latter,we maybe did lose the first half of the season with all of them especially if you include the loan period,seems to be the natural settling period?

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

No, he was clearly a ‘cut above’ from Day 1…

Clearly a cut above indeed… What was that about revisionism?

Sheaf

Sheaf had the 2nd highest pass completion in our team tonight (89%) & the 4th highest across both teams (ignoring anomalies like Billing & McCallum who only played a handful of passes). He was caught in possession & dispossessed twice. Man of the Match Dan Gosling was dispossessed 3 times...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

Toney cost £10m… I’m not going to nitpick this examples.

All of the L1 players we signed had Championship experience with the exception of EMC. £4.25m for a 24 year old player with 19 goals and 13 assists in the league below is good value. Just how you and others slated Wright and Simms last season, I believe time will prove you wrong on EMC too. For context, Toney scored 23 in 32 and was sold for £10m at 24.

You had 2 L1 CBs go for £3.5m and £4.7m in the summer - yes they were 21 and 20 so it’s the going rate for top end L1 players now.

There’s a huge difference in terms of potential value between a 20/21 year old and a 24/25 year old.

If you think £4.5m for an untested player in his mid twenties is great VfM then fair enough, but I don’t. We are acting like that’s not been out yearly transfer budget since promotion for a player with zero impact.

19 goals over two seasons playing in a front three for a team known to play to pump their forwards stats isn’t amazing. Especially considering he sat in the National League unable to beat 6 for years before that.

Kitching had played more games in L2 than the Championship before we signed him and again was 24, so not much more potential in him.

Comparing them to Simms who was 22, came from a PL academy, and had started for that PL side, and was coming off a successful loan in the championship is ridiculous (and they cost more than him), let alone Vik who had an outstanding record at every level he’d played at until the Swansea loan, or Sheaf who was topping stat charts in L1 at 21/22 before coming to us. Or Gus who was topping them in Europe.

We massively overpaid for the L1 players, we won’t make our money back in a million years.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Clearly a cut above indeed… What was that about revisionism?

Sheaf

Sheaf had the 2nd highest pass completion in our team tonight (89%) & the 4th highest across both teams (ignoring anomalies like Billing & McCallum who only played a handful of passes). He was caught in possession & dispossessed twice. Man of the Match Dan Gosling was dispossessed 3 times...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

It’s funny how people remember things. The reality is, Sheaf and Vik were examples of what a good job the coaching team have done with these players.

It happens year in, year out and it’s the same culprits making the same hasty judgements. The recruitment policy has been criticised at stages every season since L2 yet we’ve consistently climbed the football league.

We’ve spent millions, yes. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a pittance compared to the big dogs in the league - Burnley, Sheff U and Leeds.

 

[The watchmaker]

That’s not where I saw BTA playing most of the time after EMC went. There was quite a bit of attacking play down right wing as BTA and MVE were supporting each other.

On the other hand, if the instructions ARE to play narrow unless you are Japanese, it so clearly isn’t working that whoever is giving those instructions needs to give their head a wobble.

Fair enough, others seem to disagree and my memory isn't what it was so I retract my original statement.

 

[skybluecam]

Absolutely mental revisionism to pretend this was the prevailing view and is similar to how people view the current crop.

All three showed significantly more promise in their first full year at the club than any of the signings from last summer aside from perhaps MvE.

“First full year” doing some heavy lifting, hardly fair when Vik had half a season beforehand.

 

[shmmeee]

“First full year” doing some heavy lifting, hardly fair when Vik had half a season beforehand.

Vik showed promise in his half a season but came back after the summer a different player. Regardless his career stats made it clear he was a goal scorer.

But even so his improvement doesn’t mean we have to wait 18 months before judging a player.

And rubbing Simms and Wright in our nose when they’re both playing so badly they’re getting dropped recently isn’t a great win either.

But sure. The transfer business we’ve done since the windfall is flawless. This time next year Rodney they’ll all be worth £20m each.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

There’s a huge difference in terms of potential value between a 20/21 year old and a 24/25 year old.

If you think £4.5m for an untested player in his mid twenties is great VfM then fair enough, but I don’t. We are acting like that’s not been out yearly transfer budget since promotion for a player with zero impact.

19 goals over two seasons playing in a front three for a team known to play to pump their forwards stats isn’t amazing. Especially considering he sat in the National League unable to beat 6 for years before that.

Kitching had played more games in L2 than the Championship before we signed him and again was 24, so not much more potential in him.

Comparing them to Simms who was 22, came from a PL academy, and had started for that PL side, and was coming off a successful loan in the championship is ridiculous (and they cost more than him), let alone Vik who had an outstanding record at every level he’d played at until the Swansea loan, or Sheaf who was topping stat charts in L1 at 21/22 before coming to us. Or Gus who was topping them in Europe.

We massively overpaid for the L1 players, we won’t make our money back in a million years.

Would you have signed Ivan Toney for £10m then? Also 24 and in a team who pump their forwards stats…

Vik didn’t have amazing stats - he played in the Swedish second division before BHA picked him up. Your point on Sheaf contradicts your previous points on EMC and (probably Kitching as Barnsley had a v good defence) as he was statistically the best forward player in the league, in fact was shortlisted for L1 POTY. You can try, but you can’t argue with 32 goal contributions from the wing - it speaks for itself.

You wrote off Wright last season, pretty sure you said he looks like Bakayoko so perhaps, for once, reserve your judgement please.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

“First full year” doing some heavy lifting, hardly fair when Vik had half a season beforehand.

It’s a gold medal performance in the mental gymnastics from @shmmeee today.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

To be honest, didn’t we as a fan base wrote off Viktor and Ben. Remember the reactions to them signing in 21/22 was negative to say the least.

People liked Hamer but don’t think many would have viewed him as they did when he left, due to the annoying red cards he would get pointlessly.

Ultimately it’s a difficult league and players will take time to get settled, more so when we now sign a large amount from overseas.

 

[Potbellypig]

Clearly a cut above indeed… What was that about revisionism?

Sheaf

Sheaf had the 2nd highest pass completion in our team tonight (89%) & the 4th highest across both teams (ignoring anomalies like Billing & McCallum who only played a handful of passes). He was caught in possession & dispossessed twice. Man of the Match Dan Gosling was dispossessed 3 times...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Ha, the comments in that thread are exactly how I remember fans treating him.

 

[wingy]

Vik showed promise in his half a season but came back after the summer a different player. Regardless his career stats made it clear he was a goal scorer.

But even so his improvement doesn’t mean we have to wait 18 months before judging a player.

And rubbing Simms and Wright in our nose when they’re both playing so badly they’re getting dropped recently isn’t a great win either.

But sure. The transfer business we’ve done since the windfall is flawless. This time next year Rodney they’ll all be worth £20m each.

Not on current measure, maybe get the body in they all require and need, over to the owner!

 

[skybluecam]

Vik showed promise in his half a season but came back after the summer a different player. Regardless his career stats made it clear he was a goal scorer.

But even so his improvement doesn’t mean we have to wait 18 months before judging a player.

And rubbing Simms and Wright in our nose when they’re both playing so badly they’re getting dropped recently isn’t a great win either.

But sure. The transfer business we’ve done since the windfall is flawless. This time next year Rodney they’ll all be worth £20m each.

His career stats in Sweden and the German 2nd division?

Wright’s not playing badly lmao. And Simms is barely playing.

 

[stupot07]

There’s a huge difference in terms of potential value between a 20/21 year old and a 24/25 year old.

If you think £4.5m for an untested player in his mid twenties is great VfM then fair enough, but I don’t. We are acting like that’s not been out yearly transfer budget since promotion for a player with zero impact.

19 goals over two seasons playing in a front three for a team known to play to pump their forwards stats isn’t amazing. Especially considering he sat in the National League unable to beat 6 for years before that.

Kitching had played more games in L2 than the Championship before we signed him and again was 24, so not much more potential in him.

Comparing them to Simms who was 22, came from a PL academy, and had started for that PL side, and was coming off a successful loan in the championship is ridiculous (and they cost more than him), let alone Vik who had an outstanding record at every level he’d played at until the Swansea loan, or Sheaf who was topping stat charts in L1 at 21/22 before coming to us. Or Gus who was topping them in Europe.

We massively overpaid for the L1 players, we won’t make our money back in a million years.

 

[skybluecam]

There’s a huge difference in terms of potential value between a 20/21 year old and a 24/25 year old.

If you think £4.5m for an untested player in his mid twenties is great VfM then fair enough, but I don’t. We are acting like that’s not been out yearly transfer budget since promotion for a player with zero impact.

19 goals over two seasons playing in a front three for a team known to play to pump their forwards stats isn’t amazing. Especially considering he sat in the National League unable to beat 6 for years before that.

Kitching had played more games in L2 than the Championship before we signed him and again was 24, so not much more potential in him.

Comparing them to Simms who was 22, came from a PL academy, and had started for that PL side, and was coming off a successful loan in the championship is ridiculous (and they cost more than him), let alone Vik who had an outstanding record at every level he’d played at until the Swansea loan, or Sheaf who was topping stat charts in L1 at 21/22 before coming to us. Or Gus who was topping them in Europe.

We massively overpaid for the L1 players, we won’t make our money back in a million years.

You’re just cherry picking lmao

So signing Sheaf based on performances in L1/2 was a good thing, but for everyone else it’s a bad thing? Jesus Christ have a day off.

 

[stupot07]

You’re just cherry picking lmao

So signing Sheaf based on performances in L1/2 was a good thing, but for everyone else it’s a bad thing? Jesus Christ have a day off.

But we brought Sheaf in on loan with the view to buy, a bit like Binks, so really we didn't sign him until he's already played a season in the championship. And we paid less than a 1/4 of what we paid for EMC.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

The majority of players in his list have made no meaningful contribution.

So you mean Binks, Sakamoto, MVE, Torp and Wright have made no meaningful contribution to the squad so far? And Dovin and Bassette have had such limited game time so far that’s it’s impossible to say whether they’ll have a significant contribution or not. I’d take signings outside of L1 over signings from L1 every time.

 

[Para1140]

Wilson isn’t playing well he’s been crap

Give it a rest. We get it you dont like Wilson but hes no worst than the others

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

So you mean Binks, Sakamoto, MVE, Torp and Wright have made no meaningful contribution to the squad so far? And Dovin and Bassette have had such limited game time so far that’s it’s impossible to say whether they’ll have a significant contribution or not. I’d take signings outside of L1 over signings from L1 every time.

It’d be difficult to make a case for Torp tbh.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s also the question of how long you give a player before you cut your losses and admit it hasn’t worked. For the contracts we’ve handed out, 2 seasons seems fair.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

It’d be difficult to argue Torp has tbh.

Maybe Torp hasn’t contributed loads but he hasn’t had the opportunity to play as much as Eccles/Allen/Sheaf etc, when he has played he’s done a job and has scored some decent goals, not forgetting the infamous Haji-big-toe disallowed winner against Man U.

 

[skybluecam]

Give it a rest. We get it you dont like Wilson but hes no worst than the others

Over the last two seasons he’s been statistically significantly worse than our other options.

 

[skybluecam]

But we brought Sheaf in on loan with the view to buy, a bit like Binks, so really we didn't sign him until he's already played a season in the championship. And we paid less than a 1/4 of what we paid for EMC.

It was an obligation to buy, so it’s no different really.

Yes, we’ve probably overpaid. But that’s a separate issue from signing the wrong player in the first place. And EMC was always going to be more expensive given his output.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Maybe Torp hasn’t contributed loads but he hasn’t had the opportunity to play as much as Eccles/Allen/Sheaf etc, when he has played he’s done a job and has scored some decent goals, not forgetting the infamous Haji-big-toe disallowed winner against Man U.

He’s scored one goal.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Over the last two seasons he’s been statistically significantly worse than our other options.

The thing with Wilson is his passion is brilliant and probably gets him through a lot of games but when things go to shit or he has one bad game he seems to turn into one of the keepers in the league. Goes from Championship Pickford to Championship Karius within one game, such an odd player.

I think Dovin needs a solid run of games now, we paid a fair whack for him and we should be seeing a return on that investment if possible, the only way to do that is play him. If he’s legit shit then fair, but I can’t see how he’d be worse than Wilson or Collins.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

He’s scored one goal.

Really? No way Honestly feels like 3 or 4 to me for some reason, okay fair enough he’s not a prolific goalscorer but he can do a decent job in midfield. Either way my initial point wasn’t about Torp, it was about how our European signings are significantly better than our L1 signings, maybe I shouldn’t have included Torp in the list but he’s certainly better value than Kitching

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Really? No way Honestly feels like 3 or 4 to me for some reason, okay fair enough he’s not a prolific goalscorer but he can do a decent job in midfield. Either way my initial point wasn’t about Torp, it was about how our European signings are significantly better than our L1 signings, maybe I shouldn’t have included Torp in the list but he’s certainly better value than Kitching

Yes v Sheff Weds on his debut, 25 yards out.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Yes v Sheff Weds on his debut, 25 yards out.

Yeah that was a cracker tbf I think he deserves a few more starts tbh, there’s definitely a player in there just tricky to know what his best role is.

I personally would go with a 4-3-1-2, and have Eccles, Sheaf and Torp bossing the midfield with Rudoni in front and two strikers to aim at, I think it’d work much better than the current 4-3-3 variation.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah that was a cracker tbf I think he deserves a few more starts tbh, there’s definitely a player in there just tricky to know what his best role is.

I personally would go with a 4-3-1-2, and have Eccles, Sheaf and Torp bossing the midfield with Rudoni in front and two strikers to aim at, I think it’d work much better than the current 4-3-3 variation.

Torp is another who needs to be in a flat 3 or positioned further up the pitch. That said he certainly joins the list of players needing to learn how to progress the ball more quickly.

 

[clint van damme]

Really? No way Honestly feels like 3 or 4 to me for some reason, okay fair enough he’s not a prolific goalscorer but he can do a decent job in midfield. Either way my initial point wasn’t about Torp, it was about how our European signings are significantly better than our L1 signings, maybe I shouldn’t have included Torp in the list but he’s certainly better value than Kitching

He produced one of the worse midfield performances I can remember v Stoke.

And it's irrelevant anyway.
You keep trying to advocate for arbitrary practices, we should sign players from abroad, we just play a certain formation regardless of personnel.

As if that will bring about Improvement.

It's like you've only just started watching football and don't understand the nuances.

I reckon you might be Doug King!