The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (264 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Jul 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Corbyn is desperate for a hard Brexit - wake up

Corbyns brexit plans were drawn up in the labour manifesto. It included a brexit with trade at the center and guaranteeing the rights of all EU citizens currently in the UK. I guess it depends on your definition of hard brexit although it wasn't as hard as the Tories were promising pre election. Although the Labour light government of TM has adopted pretty much Corbyns stance on guaranteeing EU citizens rights after brexit so I guess the real question is will TM and the Tories brexit be hard enough for you?

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
Yeah good idea. We should build all the hospitals, schools, houses, roads and everything else that is needed so we can operate an open door policy next week.

Oh yeah forgot it would take years. And by that time we would still be playing catchup.

Good morning SB. So what do you think of the Italians now turning away all immigrants that arrive after being rescued at sea by any nationality but their own? That is bloody disgusting. Do you think that economic immigrants should be able to go where they want but those saved at sea should be left to drown? So what percentage of Italy is built on? Their excuse is they don't have the room for them.

If the UK was having the number of migrants/refugees turning up that Italy currently has, you'd be up in arms. You don't accept economic migrants coming from the EU, so I imagine you'd be accepting of those from Africa.

fernandopartridge · Jul 1, 2017

There isn't a shortage of beds in hospital. There is a chronic shortage of social or community care beds which mean that hospital ward beds are occupied by generally old people who do not need to be there but have nowhere else to go.
This isn't down to immigration. Immigration undoubtedly contributes to some pressures on the health service. However, the issue is made far worse by under funding by government.
I'm not really convinced by the 'immigrants make a net contribution' statistic, I fail to see how somebody on the minimum wage living in a HMO really is a net contributor (appreciate that not all immigrants live in this way). Those who work to save with a view to returning to their country of birth are not contributors and are removing money from the economy, though I can't see how we can complain when we're happy for British infrastructure to be owned by foreign shareholders.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
If the UK was having the number of migrants/refugees turning up that Italy currently has, you'd be up in arms. You don't accept economic migrants coming from the EU, so I imagine you'd be accepting of those from Africa.

I have said countless times that I would prefer to have those that are escaping persecution/risk to life than those that can just turn up from anywhere in the EU without having the finances to do so. But because of the EU we don't get the choice. But you seem to be more interested in letting in those not in danger of any sort before those in need.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
There isn't a shortage of beds in hospital.

Maybe where you live.

My stepdad died just under 2 years ago. He lived near Skeggy. The nearest hospital is Boston. They have serious immigrant problems. They had to close the heart unit. The nearest they use now is nearly 2 hours away. They constantly have immigrants complaining of chest pains or similar at night. They have to be taken in. They get fed and tests are done. Then many have their breakfast before getting up and leaving. Very expensive bed and breakfast.

Yet I am supposed to forget that my stepdad could still be alive if all this crap wasn't going on.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Italy has a fairly low immigrant population, (about 8%).
Far lower than UK, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, USA, Australia.

The UK also has lower immigrant populations than all those countries yet they're all out performing us economically.

Spain? :smuggrin:

Australia has an immigrant policy.

USA has many massive areas of utter deprivation.

Germany does the best out of the EU.

Would you like to do a list of the rest of the EU countries?

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
Spain? :smuggrin:

Australia has an immigrant policy.

USA has many massive areas of utter deprivation.

Germany does the best out of the EU.

Would you like to do a list of the rest of the EU countries?

Spain? :smuggrin:

currently out performing the UK.

You're right about the USA, and guess who's following their model?

No need to do the rest of the countries, I've pointed out some with higher immigration and better performing economies. There are others.

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
Maybe where you live.

My stepdad died just under 2 years ago. He lived near Skeggy. The nearest hospital is Boston. They have serious immigrant problems. They had to close the heart unit. The nearest they use now is nearly 2 hours away. They constantly have immigrants complaining of chest pains or similar at night. They have to be taken in. They get fed and tests are done. Then many have their breakfast before getting up and leaving. Very expensive bed and breakfast.

Yet I am supposed to forget that my stepdad could still be alive if all this crap wasn't going on.

That's a horrible story and I'm sorry for your loss, especially as it sounds preventable.
No one says there are never any issues with immigration but it is a convenient scapegoat for a lot of negative things that are going on which it isn't responsible for at all.
I'd also wager defunding was behind the closure of the heart unit.

Grendel · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Italy has a fairly low immigrant population, (about 8%).
Far lower than UK, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, USA, Australia.

The UK also has lower immigrant populations than all those countries yet they're all out performing us economically.

Can you please explain to me how Spain is out performing the uk economically? By what measure and please don't say YOY growth of output as then you'll be trying to tell us Greece is one of the strongest economies in Europe.

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Can you please explain to me how Spain is out performing the uk economically? By what measure and please don't say YOY growth of output as then you'll be trying to tell us Greece is one of the strongest economies in Europe.

Greece is out performing the UK in some areas!
Spain GDP is predicted to grow more than ours.

Doesn't mean it's economy is stronger, but it does mean it's out performing ours.

Grendel · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Greece is out performing the UK in some areas!
Spain GDP is predicted to grow more than ours.

Doesn't mean it's economy is stronger, but it does mean it's out performing ours.

Romania outperformed Germany in 2016

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Romania outperformed Germany in 2016

which tells us what about immigration?

Grendel · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
which tells us what about immigration?

Nothing it just shows growth stats as percentages are irrelevant - Malta grew faster as well.

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Grendel said:
Nothing it just shows growth stats as percentages are irrelevant - Malta grew faster as well.

my point was, I don't think that the fact the UK has been confirmed as the worst performing major economy is anything to do with immigration and highlighted some better performing economies with higher immigration as examples.

Take your point regarding growth, yes, we're still the 5th biggest economy and let's hope it stays like that but the signs aren't good.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Spain? :smuggrin:

currently out performing the UK.

You're right about the USA, and guess who's following their model?

No need to do the rest of the countries, I've pointed out some with higher immigration and better performing economies. There are others.

Spain are only looking to be doing better because they are starting from such a low base. Have you seen their unemployment figures?

So who is copying America? The EU wouldn't let us even if we wanted to.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
That's a horrible story and I'm sorry for your loss, especially as it sounds preventable.
No one says there are never any issues with immigration but it is a convenient scapegoat for a lot of negative things that are going on which it isn't responsible for at all.
I'd also wager defunding was behind the closure of the heart unit.

Nothing to do with funding. Have you seen what has happened with Boston and surrounding areas? Apart from the problems I have said about previously in this thread there is now racial tension. It is mainly between the Polish and Romanians. Lincolnshire is a massive area but covered by one of the smallest police forces. People are scared to go out because of them congregating all over the place and drinking. Then the fighting starts.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Ah yes because the English always drink in moderation and never fight.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Oh well, where I live 35% of the population are migrants and it's great.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Greece is out performing the UK in some areas!
Spain GDP is predicted to grow more than ours.

Doesn't mean it's economy is stronger, but it does mean it's out performing ours.

clint van damme said:
which tells us what about immigration?

That Greece and Spain got fucked up by the EU interfering. And after hitting rock bottom they are starting again. But both are still seriously in the shit. Yet you try to make out that they are doing better than us.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Ah yes because the English always drink in moderation and never fight.

Have you got a book full of excuses prepared to defend the EU and effect of uncontrollable immigration?

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Oh well, where I live 35% of the population are migrants and it's great.

So where is that then? Thought you said most were already going back to where they came from

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
So where is that then? Thought you said most were already going back to where they came from

Brighton & Hove. There is even a Polish and Romanian shop next door to each other.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Brighton & Hove. There is even a Polish and Romanian shop next door to each other.

Brighton has always been different. At one stage it seemed odd if you wasn't gay.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Ah yes because the English always drink in moderation and never fight.

If the English had been attacking Polish or Romanian people you woul go on a rant about racist English bastards. And it would be well deserved. But the racism is between Romanians and Polish. So you say the English get drunk as well.

I am happy to debate anything with anyone. And I am always truthful with my replies. But I expect the same back.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
Brighton has always been different. At one stage it seemed odd if you wasn't gay.

An absolutely ridiculous post and sums you up pretty well.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
If the English had been attacking Polish or Romanian people you woul go on a rant about racist English bastards. And it would be well deserved. But the racism is between Romanians and Polish. So you say the English get drunk as well.

I am happy to debate anything with anyone. And I am always truthful with my replies. But I expect the same back.

You're losing the plot.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
You're losing the plot.

No. You are running out of excuses. And you come out with comments like this when you can't think of an excuse.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
An absolutely ridiculous post and sums you up pretty well.

Would you like to explain?

You know what I said was a joke. But you saw a glimmer of hope to go on the attack.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
No. You are running out of excuses. And you come out with comments like this when you can't think of an excuse.

Any sort of violence is unacceptable, as is your attempt to somehow blame it on the EU. I wouldn't say that large groups of men fighting is racism, much in the same way the English and Scottish fans fighting wasn't racist. However, a group picking on an individual due to their country or ethnicity is.

Sick Boy · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
Would you like to explain?

You know what I said was a joke. But you saw a glimmer of hope to go on the attack.

I didn't actually, I saw it as some kind of sad 70's throwback remark.

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Any sort of violence is unacceptable, as is your attempt to somehow blame it on the EU. I wouldn't say that large groups of men fighting is racism, much in the same way the English and Scottish fans fighting wasn't racist. However, a group picking on an individual due to their country or ethnicity is.

Which is what happens.

What does racism mean to you? Does it have to be between black and white before it is racism?

Astute · Jul 1, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I didn't actually, I saw it as some kind of sad 70's throwback remark.

When I was a kid and before you was born?

Or are you accusing me of being racist or anti gay?

Captain Dart · Jul 1, 2017

clint van damme said:
Spain? :smuggrin:

currently out performing the UK.

You're right about the USA, and guess who's following their model?

No need to do the rest of the countries, I've pointed out some with higher immigration and better performing economies. There are others.

That's a joke about Spain right?

Spain
GDP per capita: 25,831.58 USD (2015) World Bank
Unemployment rate: 18.4% (Dec 2016) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 1.199 trillion USD (2015) World Bank
Minimum wage: 825.65 EUR per month (Jan 2017) Eurostat
Government debt: 99.8% of GDP (2015) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 3.2% annual change (2015) World Bank

UK
GDP per capita: 43,734.00 USD (2015) World Bank
Unemployment rate: 4.8% (Oct 2016) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 2.849 trillion USD (2015) World Bank
Minimum wage: 1,396.90 EUR per month (Jan 2017) Eurostat
Government debt: 89.1% of GDP (2015) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 2.3% annual change (2015) World Bank

skybluetony176 · Jul 1, 2017

Captain Dart said:
That's a joke about Spain right?

Spain
GDP per capita: 25,831.58 USD (2015) World Bank
Unemployment rate: 18.4% (Dec 2016) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 1.199 trillion USD (2015) World Bank
Minimum wage: 825.65 EUR per month (Jan 2017) Eurostat
Government debt: 99.8% of GDP (2015) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 3.2% annual change (2015) World Bank

UK
GDP per capita: 43,734.00 USD (2015) World Bank
Unemployment rate: 4.8% (Oct 2016) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 2.849 trillion USD (2015) World Bank
Minimum wage: 1,396.90 EUR per month (Jan 2017) Eurostat
Government debt: 89.1% of GDP (2015) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 2.3% annual change (2015) World Bank

Out of interest how does that compare to the respective 2016 figures between the two countries?

clint van damme · Jul 1, 2017

Astute said:
That Greece and Spain got fucked up by the EU interfering. And after hitting rock bottom they are starting again. But both are still seriously in the shit. Yet you try to make out that they are doing better than us.

I never said Greece was performing better than us, I said in some areas. Our wage contraction is worse than Greece for example.
Spain is currently performing better than us.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (264 Viewers)

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