The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (51 Viewers)

Astute · Oct 9, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Is Switzerland part of Schengen? Yes.

Is Switzerland part of EFTA? Yes.

Do we want either of those? No.

What is there to debate exactly? You asked why we can’t have what Switzerland has. The answers are very very simple as stated above.

Before knowing what we don't want can you let us all know what we do want?

I will take it very slowly for you as you can never understand what you don't want to understand.

A few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU. Do you follow me so far?

If a few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU why can't we have a unique deal with the EU?

Do you understand me?

As in a deal that would take negotiating. Mentioning Switzerland isn't saying exactly what sort of deal Switzerland has with the EU. Maybe having nothing like what Switzerland has with the EU. Understand?

Of course not. You never do understand. Not even when explained in a way a kid could understand.

CCFCSteve · Oct 9, 2019

djr8369 said:
It doesn’t necessarily take a lot of MPs to be sitting to force the government to show its hand though so I’m not sure whether this is an erroneous point. Admittedly it doesn’t look great.

That aside it isn’t just about the time available for parliament to ask specific questions. It’s about the executive removing the elected house the ability to do so for too long and at a critical time and the precedent that sets.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t disagree DJR, I’ve said all along that the proroguing just didn’t feel right to me (not to mention there was little political gain)

My point is that for all the uproar not a huge amount happened

I agree that once it went to court, allowing it would have set a dangerous precedent, unfortunately this whole process has already set various precedents that we may all regret in future (forcing the release of attorney general legal advice to government being one that I’m uncomfortable with)

skybluetony176 · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
Before knowing what we don't want can you let us all know what we do want?

I will take it very slowly for you as you can never understand what you don't want to understand.

A few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU. Do you follow me so far?

If a few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU why can't we have a unique deal with the EU?

Do you understand me?

As in a deal that would take negotiating. Mentioning Switzerland isn't saying exactly what sort of deal Switzerland has with the EU. Maybe having nothing like what Switzerland has with the EU. Understand?

Of course not. You never do understand. Not even when explained in a way a kid could understand.

Switzerland doesn’t have a unique deal. Many countries are EFTA members, many countries are in Schengen. These are not bespoke deals for Switzerland you mentalist.

Astute · Oct 9, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Switzerland doesn’t have a unique deal. Many countries are EFTA members, many countries are in Schengen. These are not bespoke deals for Switzerland you mentalist.

Who has exactly the same deal as Switzerland?

Exactly. Nobody. That makes it a unique deal. But as I said before you replied you will try to not understand what I say however simple I make it for you. Yet certain people will still agree with you.

And guess what. They still won't take anything for granted.

Swiss want ‘more clarification’ on EU framework deal

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
It’s a fair argument however both main parties also campaigned on leaving single market and customs union (as it was). A deal was then proposed by May which labour rejected even though it wasn’t contradictory to what they campaigned.

I agree that most people would want a deal though.

ps Lib Dems campaigned for remain and ended up with 7.5%, even if you lump in SNP (another 3%) there was very little support for remain parties at last election, so based on the GE argument remain should be off the table.

Please explain how Mays Deal which would lose us the benefits of CU and SM in any way meet this from Labours 2017 manifesto.

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 9, 2019

shmmeee said:
Please explain how Mays Deal which would lose us the benefits of CU and SM in any way meet this from Labours 2017 manifesto.

View attachment 13188

Accepts the referendum result, yeah right they will be campaigning for a 2nd ref in the elections

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 9, 2019

losing millions of leave voters in the process, nice one Corbyn :smuggrin::smuggrin:

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
Before knowing what we don't want can you let us all know what we do want?

I will take it very slowly for you as you can never understand what you don't want to understand.

A few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU. Do you follow me so far?

If a few countries like Switzerland have a unique deal with the EU why can't we have a unique deal with the EU?

Do you understand me?

As in a deal that would take negotiating. Mentioning Switzerland isn't saying exactly what sort of deal Switzerland has with the EU. Maybe having nothing like what Switzerland has with the EU. Understand?

Of course not. You never do understand. Not even when explained in a way a kid could understand.

What we want is easy: we want to be able to control our own laws and borders and sign our own trade deals. We want a FTA with the EU. (Obviously by “we” I mean Conservative party backers and the useful idiots they’ve acquired).

Problem is to get that we need a border in Ireland and “we” don’t want to get blamed for restarting the Troubles.

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
losing millions of leave voters in the process, nice one Corbyn :smuggrin::smuggrin:

Labour are the only party with a plan to resolve this within six months. But if you want to stay in Europe and keep arguing about unicorns carry on.

(Edit: also, you do realise Labour didn’t win a majority in 2017, right?)

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Accepts the referendum result, yeah right they will be campaigning for a 2nd ref in the elections

BTW you worked out what the referendum result was yet?

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 9, 2019

shmmeee said:
Labour are the only party with a plan to resolve this within six months. But if you want to stay in Europe and keep arguing about unicorns carry on.

Hasn't it been said that they will campaign against any deal they put forward from the EU in another Ref? Imagine voting against/campaigning against your own deal

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Hasn't it been said that they will campaign against any deal they put forward from the EU in another Ref? Imagine voting against/campaigning against your own deal

No that’s not what’s been said. What’s been said is we can’t say what’s a better deal until it’s negotiated. And that the leadership are likely to stay neutral and let MPs campaign for whatever they want, just like both parties did for the first referendum.

Interesting how you’ve been conned into arguing against what you say you want (Brexit done) though.

fernandopartridge · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Hasn't it been said that they will campaign against any deal they put forward from the EU in another Ref? Imagine voting against/campaigning against your own deal

No. They haven't said that at all you cretin

skybluetony176 · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
Who has exactly the same deal as Switzerland?

Exactly. Nobody. That makes it a unique deal. But as I said before you replied you will try to not understand what I say however simple I make it for you. Yet certain people will still agree with you.

And guess what. They still won't take anything for granted.

Swiss want ‘more clarification’ on EU framework deal

Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Switzerland are all EFTA members.

Too many Schengen members to list so here’s a link Schengen Area - Wikipedia

As you can see that’s the opposite of no one.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 9, 2019

You know, if somebody put before me a fantastic deal for leaving the EU, I'd vote for it...

There's nothing to fear from such a referendum... unless the best deal is to stay, and you don't want that despite all evidence.

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 9, 2019

fernandopartridge said:
No. They haven't said that at all you cretin

'I'd negotiate a Brexit deal... but fight for Remain'

Cretin? Great insult that is mate, lovely way to describe yourself

Sick Boy · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
I will try for the very last time with you. Otherwise will fully ignore you whatever rubbish you come out with.

Point out where I said I am a Mail reader.

I read all kinds of crap from all sources. The only site I read through choice is BBC as they are supposed to be unbiased by law. But their contributors still have their own slant because of their own bias. But I read as many as I can to try and work out the unbiased truth.

And yes you have quoted the Mail several times. Each time I asked you why you quoted the Mail as you had a go at anyone for quoting the Mail. But each time you said it was something worth sharing.

No thanks, I'm not interested in indulging your nonsense. Get back to trying to claim your opinion is the truth and sharing Guido Fawkes articles to back up 'the truth'.

CCFCSteve · Oct 9, 2019

shmmeee said:
Please explain how Mays Deal which would lose us the benefits of CU and SM in any way meet this from Labours 2017 manifesto.

View attachment 13188

Labour had said they would leave both the single market and customs union (as it was).....but somehow retain the benefits.

I said Mays agreement wasn’t contradictory to this. As we know the trade discussions weren’t taking place until after the withdrawal agreement is transition period (due to EU sequencing) so how do we know which benefits we would lose until the trade discussions had been completed ?

Labour could have agreed the WA subject to parliament scrutiny on trade negotiations/agreement, if they really wanted an agreement.

ps unless you are suggesting that labour wanted to actually remain in the CU and single market but not want to admit it to their supporters, which is also possible

SkyBlueDom26 · Oct 9, 2019

Bercow at it again then teaming up with the remainers, didn't realise a speaker had more power than a PM! Disgraceful

martcov · Oct 9, 2019

Just thought I’d but in with a report from S&P which gives of a costing of the state of play so far:

https://amp.businessinsider.com/price-of-brexit-66-billion-recession-2019-4?__twitter_impression=true

martcov · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Bercow at it again then teaming up with the remainers, didn't realise a speaker had more power than a PM! Disgraceful

he discussed how the parliaments should handle Brexit with his counterpart. If he is trying to stop a no deal, he is in line with UK parliament who he represents. They passed the Benn bill. We have a rogue PM who does not speak for the majority of the country according to the polls. The majority of the UK do not want a no deal crash out. Farage will stand trial one day for incitement.

fernandopartridge · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
'I'd negotiate a Brexit deal... but fight for Remain'

Cretin? Great insult that is mate, lovely way to describe yourself

Let's deal with their actual policy rather than a poor interview

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
'I'd negotiate a Brexit deal... but fight for Remain'

Cretin? Great insult that is mate, lovely way to describe yourself

Not so much with the reading comprehension huh?

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

martcov said:
Just thought I’d but in with a report from S&P which gives of a costing of the state of play so far:
https://amp.businessinsider.com/pri...on-recession-2019-4?__twitter_impression=true
The price of Brexit has been £66 billion so far, plus an impending recession — and it hasn't even started yet

Let’s spend it on the NHS instead!

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Bercow at it again then teaming up with the remainers, didn't realise a speaker had more power than a PM! Disgraceful

Parliament is sovereign, yes. You wanted that remember?

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
Labour had said they would leave both the single market and customs union (as it was).....but somehow retain the benefits.

I said Mays agreement wasn’t contradictory to this. As we know the trade discussions weren’t taking place until after the withdrawal agreement is transition period (due to EU sequencing) so how do we know which benefits we would lose until the trade discussions had been completed ?

Labour could have agreed the WA subject to parliament scrutiny on trade negotiations/agreement, if they really wanted an agreement.

ps unless you are suggesting that labour wanted to actually remain in the CU and single market but not want to admit it to their supporters, which is also possible

Mays political declaration was the main sticking point IIRC. And yes Labour are trying not to piss off either half of their coalition. Just like the Tories who pretend they want a deal. Difference is Labours compromise is actually possible.

Astute · Oct 9, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Switzerland are all EFTA members.

Too many Schengen members to list so here’s a link Schengen Area - Wikipedia

As you can see that’s the opposite of no one.

Stop your lies for once.

So name someone who has exactly the same deal as Switzerland and I will do the usual and prove you wrong.

shmmeee · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
Stop your lies for once.

So name someone who has exactly the same deal as Switzerland and I will do the usual and prove you wrong.

Their “deal” includes various off the shelf bits (I have no idea what this argument is about)

Astute · Oct 9, 2019

Sick Boy said:
No thanks, I'm not interested in indulging your nonsense. Get back to trying to claim your opinion is the truth and sharing Guido Fawkes articles to back up 'the truth'.

How does fuck off sound? Had enough of your lies. The same as Tony the UKIP voter who made racist comments. You are welcome to each other. Will ignore the pair of you from now.

Astute · Oct 9, 2019

shmmeee said:
Their “deal” includes various off the shelf bits (I have no idea what this argument is about)

I said they have a unique deal which they do. The EU even said they wouldn't offer anyone else what they offered Switzerland.

skybluetony176 · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
Stop your lies for once.

So name someone who has exactly the same deal as Switzerland and I will do the usual and prove you wrong.

I’ve just given you a list and a link you mentalist.

Sick Boy · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
How does fuck off sound? Had enough of your lies. The same as Tony the UKIP voter who made racist comments. You are welcome to each other. Will ignore the pair of you from now.

Boo fucking hoo

skybluetony176 · Oct 9, 2019

Astute said:
I said they have a unique deal which they do. The EU even said they wouldn't offer anyone else what they offered Switzerland.

We don’t want what Switzerland has. Again they are members of EFTA and Schengen.

Sick Boy · Oct 9, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
I’ve just given you a list and a link you mentalist.

skybluetony176 said:
We don’t want what Switzerland has. Again they are members of EFTA and Schengen.

I presume his username is supposed to be ironic.

skybluetony176 · Oct 9, 2019

shmmeee said:
Their “deal” includes various off the shelf bits (I have no idea what this argument is about)

Apparently it’s not fair that we haven’t been offered what Switzerland has despite the red lines meaning we would never entertain EFTA or Schengen membership.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (51 Viewers)

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