The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (30 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

the unionist population of Ireland are thick - it’s the media

Not the unionist population, just the DUP and their hardest followers. Can’t believe that the DUP were stupid enough to come out of a meeting with Boris and describe it as constructive and satisfactory thinking that he was going to stick to what he was telling them or indeed stick by what he said at the DUP conference. Very stupid of them to take Boris as a man of his word. His hard earned reputation really should have gone before him.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not how democracy works idiot, imagine if the remoaners (like yourself) won and us leavers bitched and complained because we didn't get our own way

Childish and embarrassing tbh

 

[Astute]

I already mentioned my concerns with that approach (over complexity, not playing well to an electorate as it seems you're trying to do something behind their back), and that doesn't mean the current position is contradictory, either. it does mean it's hard to explain and sell. It's not the Grendels of this world you need to sell it to, it's the middle of the roaders and if they don't get it, they won't vote for it.

Keep it simple stupid is what you need.


tbf they also said May's deal was the definitive final answer. If some of the red lines were relaxed (as with dumping on NI and the DUP, this time around) the EU might be amenable, especially with a different make-up of parliament.

But as I said, I don't think it plays well at all for getting a message across, so should be dumped. It also depends on taking the leap of faith that a different government could come up with this holy grail of a Brexit to end all Brexits too!

I said before that the May deal would be changed. I was told I was wrong each time I said so. But now they have agreed to what they said they wouldn't I can't see them doing it again.

Something is going on and I just can't work it out. It is as though the Tories are making it look like they are trying to get us out but don't want to. They know it can be stopped by parliament each time.

 

[shmmeee]

What is baseless? Corbyn refusing to say anything about the innocent women and children killed? If so how many links would you like?

Go on then.

 

[Grendel]

Shall I show you quotes that said we’d never have another referendum from labour MPs elected on that basis in 2017

Really I thought you’d be excited at an election - you seem to want Mr Johnson as pm for ever.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh it’s the media again

The Jewish community are thick it’s the media

The working class who have an opinion different to yours are thick it’s the media

the unionist population of Ireland are thick - it’s the media

Perhaps you should be the only person allowed a vote. Makes sense

Oh Grendel can't provide a quote-again. Oh Grendel plays the straw man-again. Oh Grendel obfuscates on his own bullshit-again.

Show me the stats on 43% of Labour members having a problem with a Jewish PM. Pass a comment on the current PM publishing racist opinions in a major newspaper. Just show some God damn consistency.

 

[shmmeee]

That would be for a later date when negotiations finally start. That would be after leaving. What I said is I can't see any more changing of the agreement to us leaving. Not unless it was to stop us from leaving without an agreement. And I can't see that happening. I don't even think we will leave.

We will definitely leave. The numbers aren’t there for any Remain option and never have been.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I said before that the May deal would be changed. I was told I was wrong each time I said so. But now they have agreed to what they said they wouldn't I can't see them doing it again.

Something is going on and I just can't work it out. It is as though the Tories are making it look like they are trying to get us out but don't want to. They know it can be stopped by parliament each time.

But they've agreed to a change because we've thrown the DUP under a bus, and changed what we said we'd never change.

Same applies with the other red lines. Allow a customs union, and the EU would be delighted to renegotiate, I'm sure.

 

[Astute]

Look how blue England is. England is the main country in the UK. That is the difficulty of remaining.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Shall I show you quotes that said we’d never have another referendum from labour MPs elected on that basis in 2017

Really I thought you’d be excited at an election - you seem to want Mr Johnson as pm for ever.

Dom gets refuted-Grendel steps in to deflect

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Look how blue England is. England is the main country in the UK. That is the difficulty of remaining.

Look at how London is virtually all yellow and it's by far the largest population centre in the country.

 

[Grendel]

But they've agreed to a change because we've thrown the DUP under a bus, and changed what we said we'd never change.

Same applies with the other red lines. Allow a customs union, and the EU would be delighted to renegotiate, I'm sure.

someone should put that in a manifesto then for December

 

[Astute]

We will definitely leave. The numbers aren’t there for any Remain option and never have been.

They are in the most important place. Parliament. If they don't let it through it doesn't happen.

 

[skybluetony176]

What is baseless? Corbyn refusing to say anything about the innocent women and children killed? If so how many links would you like?

That’s not even remotely true. Just of the top of my head I know he signed and supported a motion in Parliament (on the 20th anniversary of the Birmingham pub bombings IIRC) to condemn IRA violence, pay its respects to its victims and support the continual work of the GFA.

 

[shmmeee]

I said before that the May deal would be changed. I was told I was wrong each time I said so. But now they have agreed to what they said they wouldn't I can't see them doing it again.

Something is going on and I just can't work it out. It is as though the Tories are making it look like they are trying to get us out but don't want to. They know it can be stopped by parliament each time.

The May deal wasn’t changed. We went back to a previous EU suggestion. That was always available. The EU have consistently said we can work towards whatever we want (Ireland notwithstanding) but we just need to let them know what we want.

May had contradictory red lines because of her reliance on the DUP, Johnson decided to throw the DUP under the bus and try without them. It’s U.K. politics that changed not the EUs answer.

 

[shmmeee]

They are in the most important place. Parliament. If they don't let it through it doesn't happen.

It’s Parliament that I’m talking about. Gravity is with leave, without a credible Remain option we will leave.

Johnson could likely pass his deal now if he wanted but he wants to go to the electorate claiming he’s been frustrated so he can have a bigger majority for his other stuff.

 

[Astute]

But they've agreed to a change because we've thrown the DUP under a bus, and changed what we said we'd never change.

Same applies with the other red lines. Allow a customs union, and the EU would be delighted to renegotiate, I'm sure.

But the customs union negotiations would be after we leave if it happens. We are not allowed to negotiate anything until after leaving and paying many billions of pounds over. Even then they could negotiate something like what we have now.

This us where it would get interesting. Most people haven't given it a thought yet. It has all been about in, out or shake it all about.

 

[shmmeee]

Look how blue England is. England is the main country in the UK. That is the difficulty of remaining.

Look how yellow Scotland and NI are, as well as England’s capital and main economic driver. That’s the difficulty of leaving.

It’s essentially 50:50, anyone claiming will of the people is a charlatan let’s be honest. We should never have had a referendum on a simple majority of such a divisive topic.

Pig fucker is a c**t.

 

[shmmeee]

But the customs union negotiations would be after we leave if it happens. We are not allowed to negotiate anything until after leaving and paying many billions of pounds over. Even then they could negotiate something like what we have now.

This us where it would get interesting. Most people haven't given it a thought yet. It has all been about in, out or shake it all about.

Funny. Could’ve sworn we’ve just spent three years arguing over exactly the form of customs union we want to solve the Irish border problem.

 

[Astute]

Look at how London is virtually all yellow and it's by far the largest population centre in the country.

Look how big the rest of England is to London. Look at how many seats there are.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

England was 53.4% against 46.6%. 15,188,406 against 13,266,996. Nearly 2m more wanted leave over remain. But London was 60/40 on side of remain. So consider the strength of the leave vote in the rest of the UK.

Or..... How did different constituencies vote in the 2016 EU referendum? - Full Fact

MP's going against their constituents.

 

[Astute]

The May deal wasn’t changed. We went back to a previous EU suggestion. That was always available. The EU have consistently said we can work towards whatever we want (Ireland notwithstanding) but we just need to let them know what we want.

May had contradictory red lines because of her reliance on the DUP, Johnson decided to throw the DUP under the bus and try without them. It’s U.K. politics that changed not the EUs answer.

Of course it was changed. And the EU only offered a hard border before. The so called backstop was supposed to be the only solution to hard borders.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Once a liar, always a liar and still at it:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Asked why Boris Johnson promised that the UK would leave this week under all circumstances, his spokesman replies that: &quot;October 31 was a date that was set by the EU.&quot;</p>&mdash; Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) <a href="">October 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Astute]

It’s Parliament that I’m talking about. Gravity is with leave, without a credible Remain option we will leave.

Johnson could likely pass his deal now if he wanted but he wants to go to the electorate claiming he’s been frustrated so he can have a bigger majority for his other stuff.

I don't get you. The only place remain is strong enough to do anything is in parliament.

How did different constituencies vote in the 2016 EU referendum? - Full Fact

 

[shmmeee]

I don't get you. The only place remain is strong enough to do anything is in parliament.

How did different constituencies vote in the 2016 EU referendum? - Full Fact

Your thinking is far far too simplistic. There’s been a majority for Brexit in Parliament from day one, just not a hard Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

Your thinking is far far too simplistic. There’s been a majority for Brexit in Parliament from day one, just not a hard Brexit.

even the customs union amendment was rejected last time you simpleton

 

[Astute]

Look how yellow Scotland and NI are, as well as England’s capital and main economic driver. That’s the difficulty of leaving.

It’s essentially 50:50, anyone claiming will of the people is a charlatan let’s be honest. We should never have had a referendum on a simple majority of such a divisive topic.

Pig fucker is a c**t.

So try being realistic. Scotland, Ireland and Wales are ruled by England. They don't have enough seats to do anything unless they join a main party based in England. That is why some want independence.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

DJR is Martcov.

Suspected as much. There's no way he'd just piss off for a bit like he appears to have done.

 

[Astute]

Funny. Could’ve sworn we’ve just spent three years arguing over exactly the form of customs union we want to solve the Irish border problem.

Not at all. Was supposed to be backstop or nothing. And it was supposed to remain until a deal was made.

 

[shmmeee]

Once a liar, always a liar and still at it:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Asked why Boris Johnson promised that the UK would leave this week under all circumstances, his spokesman replies that: &quot;October 31 was a date that was set by the EU.&quot;</p>&mdash; Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) <a href="">October 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hell keep doing it while it works. He’s been given a blank cheque by half the country

 

[shmmeee]

So try being realistic. Scotland, Ireland and Wales are ruled by England. They don't have enough seats to do anything unless they join a main party based in England. That is why some want independence.

Devolution is a thing

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Look how big the rest of England is to London. Look at how many seats there are.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

England was 53.4% against 46.6%. 15,188,406 against 13,266,996. Nearly 2m more wanted leave over remain. But London was 60/40 on side of remain. So consider the strength of the leave vote in the rest of the UK.

Or..... How did different constituencies vote in the 2016 EU referendum? - Full Fact

MP's going against their constituents.

As we both know the geographical size of the constituency has no relation to population. The truth is that this referendum needed a supermajority built in to avoid polarising the country.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Interesting. Ethnic stereotypes of Italians are fine but calling out ignorance in the British general public is abhorrent.
Just be consistent dude

It appear that those who voted leave are okay to be classed as ignorant on here . but that's okay......dude.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Hell keep doing it while it works. He’s been given a blank cheque by half the country

The best reason not to go to an election. One day it'll catch up on him, and I'd rather he didn't have the majority of a five year term left when it does! Let him own his decisions, let him stand by them and deal with the consequences of them.

 

[Astute]

Your thinking is far far too simplistic. There’s been a majority for Brexit in Parliament from day one, just not a hard Brexit.

So why can't they even force across a deal which would mean leaving? I have lost count of MP's that have resigned/left so they can have their say. And most have ended up with the Lib Dems. Yet they still can't force it over the line. If this 70/30 Parliament split was on the side if leave we would have left ages ago.

 

[shmmeee]

Not at all. Was supposed to be backstop or nothing. And it was supposed to remain until a deal was made.

The backstop was a customs union. No idea what your second sentence is about.