So because you say that because Europe is worse, that logically means there isn’t any racism in England. Righto.
And it’s not the U.K., it’s England.
Bury your head in the sand if you like, you seem the type, but England has a big racism problem, plain for all to see... if you want to.
Ah stop, that is absolute bollocks, utter crap- you can put up as many charts and white justifications as you like, until you’ve been in the shoes of the people that get abuse, subtle digs, ridicule, excluded every single day because of their colour & place of birth then you can’t say shit like this. This is the very definition of being in denial, the epitome of deflection- we see racism and xenophobia every day and it’s getting worse, but actually “there is no problem cause I have a great chart that shows there isn’t a problem”. It proves absolutely nothing apart from what I have already said- English people don’t come out and say they’re xenophobic, because they don’t actually believe they are xenophobic, they say the right things and they think they mean them, but when push comes to shove, racism and xenophobia are everywhere around us.
Even in my own lifetime growing up in Cov. First it was the Irish, then the West Indians and Indians/ Pakistanis, then the Eastern Europeans and Islamaphobia- it’s there. All day, every day. Until people accept that it’s there it will never go away. And I don’t buy this “yeah but it’s worse elsewhere”- say that was true, does that make it all ok then for Afghan kids to be be getting beaten up and posted to YouTube, Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins having literally millions of fans hanging on their words about final solutions and being openly racist, people like Arron Banks mocking people who die on dinghies one the channel (who aren’t white), and is it coincidence that even someone like Raheem Sterling gets treated like he’s a street criminal and his every move slated whereas white players who do ten times worse are worshipped?
My missus is threatening to divorce me as I am no longer part of the EU familyI actually forgot it was happening this weekend, that’s how much attention it’s getting here.
I don’t know what this is intended to prove to be honest. It’s nothing to do with racism, that’s for sure.My missus is threatening to divorce me as I am no longer part of the EU family
Seriously was talking to a Hungarian EU Minister last week who was talking about a EU-type citizenship for those of us resident in EU. Popular in Brussels. Main opposition? The French
Some fundamental points. It is beyond any kind of doubt that there is a serious racism and xenophobia issue in England, which is getting worse
Ah stop, that is absolute bollocks, utter crap- you can put up as many charts and white justifications as you like, until you’ve been in the shoes of the people that get abuse, subtle digs, ridicule, excluded every single day because of their colour & place of birth then you can’t say shit like this. This is the very definition of being in denial, the epitome of deflection- we see racism and xenophobia every day and it’s getting worse, but actually “there is no problem cause I have a great chart that shows there isn’t a problem”. It proves absolutely nothing apart from what I have already said- English people don’t come out and say they’re xenophobic, because they don’t actually believe they are xenophobic, they say the right things and they think they mean them, but when push comes to shove, racism and xenophobia are everywhere around us.
Strange isn't it? I live in what is probably THE most multi-cultural area of Coventry (including large numbers of asylum seekers) and haven't witnessed a single racist incident in many years.
Out of idle curiosity... Where do you work??Strange how I hear and witness stuff almost every single time I leave my house
Of course I'm ultra sensitive to it, and I'm sick to fucking death of calling people out for saying shit about black people to my face because they think I'm white.
"Not you though pal"
Every time I went to a white mates families house growing up. My own wifes family, my own family on my dads side. People at work. New people I meet who don't know me. The list goes on and on and it's every single day. Feel free to dismiss what I'm saying, but it's a fact.
And none of the above is even a tiny amount of the shit I witnessed everywhere I went with my ex who was Chinese. Constant, constant abuse. To the point I was getting into fights left right and centre. She just dismissed it as 'part of life'. It was horrible.
Strange how I hear and witness stuff almost every single time I leave my house
Of course I'm ultra sensitive to it, and I'm sick to fucking death of calling people out for saying shit about black people to my face because they think I'm white.
"Not you though pal"
Every time I went to a white mates families house growing up. My own wifes family, my own family on my dads side. People at work. New people I meet who don't know me. The list goes on and on and it's every single day. Feel free to dismiss what I'm saying, but it's a fact.
Out of idle curiosity... Where do you work??
I don't disagree that relatively we do well. What I've been proud of in being British is our tolerance and openness to others. It does seem recently racists have become emboldened however, and there's a reluctance to call racists racist when previously they'd have been called out. There are also racist tropes which seem to be more accepted nowadays too - this is regression.Does racism exist? Yes.
Does the U.K. have a particularly bad problem compared to other countries? No.
These are not two conflicting statements. We have a lot of work to do, but we’ve also come a hell of a long way. It’s possible to despise racism and think it needs stamping out but also not think literally half the country is racist and that it’s some epidemic.
More to the point, bigotry is beaten by making people better off and exposing them to difference in their daily life. Not just calling people racist in general without justification.
That’s it. That’s my point. Obviously I’m white and won’t experience/notice it as much as BAME people, but the data shows we are doing OK despite a recent spike. Fact is most other countries are horrendously racist. Like 1970s racist. We have come a long way.
Not dismissing your experience and it’s disgraceful when it happens. We have a long long way to go. Sorry if I gave that impression.
Tbf the different perspective is surely what's needed though...?No worries. I normally try to not get involved in talk like this on here as I'm coming at it from a different perspective than 99% of you but now and again it riles me up and the lad was up at 4am this morning so I'm in a mood.
Tbf the different perspective is surely what's needed though...?
I don't disagree that relatively we do well. What I've been proud of in being British is our tolerance and openness to others. It does seem recently racists have become emboldened however, and there's a reluctance to call racists racist when previously they'd have been called out. There are also racist tropes which seem to be more accepted nowadays too - this is regression.
Bigotry will always exist, but it'll thrive if people let it.
Except it doesn’t. And it’s 100% impossible to deny. Brexit = xenophobia.
nobody has yet given one single tangible benefit, because there aren’t any, but loads of people get off on being able to publicly dislike and discriminate non white English.
Does racism exist? Yes.
Does the U.K. have a particularly bad problem compared to other countries? No.
These are not two conflicting statements. We have a lot of work to do, but we’ve also come a hell of a long way. It’s possible to despise racism and think it needs stamping out but also not think literally half the country is racist and that it’s some epidemic.
More to the point, bigotry is beaten by making people better off and exposing them to difference in their daily life. Not just calling people racist in general without justification.
That’s it. That’s my point. Obviously I’m white and won’t experience/notice it as much as BAME people, but the data shows we are doing OK despite a recent spike. Fact is most other countries are horrendously racist. Like 1970s racist. We have come a long way.
Calling things that aren’t directly racism? Like what?No arguments there. But equally calling things that aren’t directly racism dilutes it’s power. You lose your influence if you don’t make the arguments well. Otherwise it’s just name calling and people close up. Hills examples are clear racism and I’d hope most would agree and call it out if they saw it.
To be honest I think part of the blame has to lie with modern social justice activists who are ridiculously extreme. Everyone needs to calm down and talk instead of lobbing insults.
So does this “data” capture all the remarks, classroom bullying, racial putdowns etc? What’s the definition of ‘acceptable’ racism and at what point does it get captured in ‘the data’?Does racism exist? Yes.
Does the U.K. have a particularly bad problem compared to other countries? No.
These are not two conflicting statements. We have a lot of work to do, but we’ve also come a hell of a long way. It’s possible to despise racism and think it needs stamping out but also not think literally half the country is racist and that it’s some epidemic.
More to the point, bigotry is beaten by making people better off and exposing them to difference in their daily life. Not just calling people racist in general without justification.
That’s it. That’s my point. Obviously I’m white and won’t experience/notice it as much as BAME people, but the data shows we are doing OK despite a recent spike. Fact is most other countries are horrendously racist. Like 1970s racist. We have come a long way.
Personally I’d be more concerned about the prosperity and health of the population right now as opposed to a political analysis, but whatever floats your boat.One thing that is annoying me today is the quote that we've been with the European Union 47 years.
What we joined wasn't the EU. We never had a vote on joining the EU. It was an experiment which was put onto the people of Europe, hoping for its consent in future years which never arrived for a lot of nations within the EU.
How any politician who supported this carry on in their jobs In the UK, or be viewed favourably by history, is beyond my understanding.
Spot on. But apparently there’s a chart that proves we don’t have a problem, and Steve says that calling Brexit-fuelled racism out is causing the problem, so just goes to show how far peoples heads are buried in the sand.why do people think being less racist than other countries is some sort of badge of honour? Just means there are more massive cunts in those countries than here, it's nothing to brag about.
We've made great strides admittedly but we've definitely regressed and it pretty shameful to be honest.
Nobody gives a fuck you jelly.Anyway I’ll leave you with this, which some of you would do very well to read.
You are in denial. You’re never going to experience what non white English people are going through every day, so to you it doesn’t exist. Yet you still feel qualified to pontificate and drone on about how there is no problem, and talk about ‘liberalism’, which has actually been mutated into meaning ‘I will say what I want about those nasty foreign people and you have no right to call me on it’, while up in your ivory towers counting the days until you can crack in with removing people who don’t fit the “required profile”.
The backlash against Meghan and Stormzy shows that Britain is in denial about racism - CNN
Factual statement. I'm now a Hungarian resident with a Hungarian wife and 2 daughters. This particular Hungarian minister is a family friend who spends most of his time in Brussels. Check previous post somewhere and I'd discussed with SickBoy about the possibility of a "new" type of EU citizenship for expats.I don’t know what this is intended to prove to be honest. It’s nothing to do with racism, that’s for sure.
Yep, the direction of travel has definitely done a U turn. Just look how it’s creeping back into the football terraces at all levels of the English game.why do people think being less racist than other countries is some sort of badge of honour? Just means there are more massive cunts in those countries than here, it's nothing to brag about.
We've made great strides admittedly but we've definitely regressed and it pretty shameful to be honest.
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