fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Thought it was Corbyn they all hated or has that story changed again?
Thought it was Corbyn they all hated or has that story changed again?If Labour abstained it would still look like they aren't accepting of the referendum and they'd be hit with that stick again. This I believe is an attempt to win those red wall voters back.
Not sure it will work like that. If Brexit is a success the Conservatives will claim the credit. If its a disaster anytime Starmer brings up anything about it being a bad deal it will just be batted away with 'you voted for it'.If Labour abstained it would still look like they aren't accepting of the referendum and they'd be hit with that stick again. This I believe is an attempt to win those red wall voters back.
Just come out apologise for trying to do it in the first place. Starmer should have done this Day 1, as should have Corbyn before him.If Labour abstained it would still look like they aren't accepting of the referendum and they'd be hit with that stick again. This I believe is an attempt to win those red wall voters back.
What has that got to do with Brexit?Didn't they abstain from the Tier strategy?
All he has done is what most modern day politicians do. Go against the opposition even if it isn't the best thing to do.
He had his chance as leader of Labour to try and shape what happened with Brexit. But he just sat on the fence for as long as he could. It gave the Tories an easy time. But it wasn't a surprise as he often stated he wanted out of the EU before the referendum.
A plan to have one should have never got off the ground. Leave would have won by an even bigger margin second time round.Jo Swinson and Corbyn bottled their opportunity to have a second referendum. They couldn’t work together electorally and that cost both parties seats. So it seems pretty pointless that Corbyn is grandstanding by opposing the deal, when the alternative is no deal and a harder Brexit.
Brexit is happening, and we’ve got to hope that it goes well and we become more outward looking as a nation.
Is he grandstanding? He was one of 52 MPs who abstained, he wasn't even one of the 73 MPs who voted against it.So it seems pretty pointless that Corbyn is grandstanding by opposing the deal, when the alternative is no deal and a harder Brexit.
What has that got to do with Brexit?
He abstained. The reality is less would you want no deal or this deal, more would you rather be seen to support the abysmal deal put forward by the Tories.
I find it quite bizarre that forensic genius Starmer whipped the party to vote for it when a) the tories have a huge majority, and b) the actual draft legislation only appeared a day or two ago. His first critique (if he can manage a bit of opposition) will just be beaten down with a "well you voted for the deal" and they'd be spot on.
Is he grandstanding? He was one of 52 MPs who abstained, he wasn't even one of the 73 MPs who voted against it.
Not sure why anyone is really concerned about how he votes, he's no longer leader, in fact he's not even a Labour MP. How he votes is pretty much insignificant in a parliament where the government has a huge majority.
Is he grandstanding? He was one of 52 MPs who abstained, he wasn't even one of the 73 MPs who voted against it.
Not sure why anyone is really concerned about how he votes, he's no longer leader, in fact he's not even a Labour MP. How he votes is pretty much insignificant in a parliament where the government has a huge majority.
A plan to have one should have never got off the ground. Leave would have won by an even bigger margin second time round.
Doubtful. The guy is in serious need of a reality check.Post-Brexit trade: UK having its cake and eating it, says Boris Johnson
The PM refuses to acknowledge his post-Brexit trade deal brings new barriers to trade, in a BBC interview.www.bbc.co.uk
Boris seems to think positivity can win through. Maybe he’s right
this country is fucked, this man is an elected politician. State of it
this country is fucked, this man is an elected politician. State of it
this country is fucked, this man is an elected politician. State of it
Arse
An image of a real leader - truly a thing of the past
She would never have left he single marketthis country is fucked, this man is an elected politician. State of it
Of course if this bloke actually had any balls, he could have presented an alternative Brexit to the people for us to leave out of the left hand door.....and maybe engaging the youth, the disenfranchised and the working classes.....
....but no....he sat on his hands, on the fence, and watched the shit storm from the sidelines......cowardly prick.
....and now we've got a tory wank sock sir keir the nowhere man as "leader" of the opposition.....I fucking despair
Fully agree with most of this.You got it
My reasoning has always come from comparing the average voter, the average Tory plan and the average Labour plan.
The average voter wants what is best for them. They say about being happy to pay more in tax but put their x elsewhere. The average Labour Party wants what is best for the poor/lower paid. The Tories announce their best parts, keep quiet on those the majority wouldn't like and expand on those that other parties have where the voters might not like and make them sound worse. There goes your policies and party political broadcasts.
The Tories won't be shouting about our future with the EU. They will condition the voters first. Once the majority wants what their aims are they will happen.
Let's go back to this last minute deal and it being planned in advance. Within a few days 27 countries got through a lot of paperwork and agreed to it. Does anyone really believe this paperwork was sorted and agreed in a few days? I am sure it was planned well in advance. Macron even put his reputation on the line in France and got exactly what he stated he would. We got conditioned to expect the worst and at the last minute got a deal.
So the conditioning will continue. The Tories will continue to let us know what their aims are. We will get most of what they say but will compromise in other areas. But we will be happy because we get what we want. Eventually we will have the vast majority of what we had previously but not in name. It will be known as 'a special deal'
Ah that’s brilliant!!
Tories and Labour are different to different people. This is the problem.Fully agree with most of this.
At the end of the day the Conservative Party are just the political wing of the British establishment, always were and always will be.
He abstained. The reality is less would you want no deal or this deal, more would you rather be seen to support the abysmal deal put forward by the Tories.
I find it quite bizarre that forensic genius Starmer whipped the party to vote for it when a) the tories have a huge majority, and b) the actual draft legislation only appeared a day or two ago. His first critique (if he can manage a bit of opposition) will just be beaten down with a "well you voted for the deal" and they'd be spot on.
Tories and Labour are different to different people. This is the problem.
Long term shows vote Labour vote tax increases. Vote Tory vote tax cuts. Do you want more money in your pay packet?
All is good until things in life go wrong. Normally when you need the services that are paid for by tax. This is when most people consider the problems of paying less tax. But by then it is too late. They mainly considered the spongers who never did a days work and not those in need.
We have a great NHS. It is very expensive to run but is a lifesaver. You see people on here saying how far behind other countries our NHS is but the NHS is free. I see France called better all the time. But that is by those who don't know what they are talking about. Yes it is a great system. But it isn't free. Only basic is free. We pay €450 a month which covers nearly everything. Have an ongoing problem? Not a problem if you can afford about 1k a month insurance. Yet it is compared to the NHS.
Tax cuts v paying extra tax. Are you a gambling person?
As much as you like.Do you have any proof whatsoever for the tax rise/tax cut thing?
In reality it’s very much in the EU’s favour and gives zero tariff access to the UK for import and exports on goods.I get that on a level, but the alternative is no deal at all.
To be frank, the deal isn’t all that bad. Zero tariff and zero quota access to the EU Single Market without having to pay into it, is not that bad an outcome.
In reality it’s very much in the EU’s favour and gives zero tariff access to the UK for import and exports on goods.
How anyone can describe it as not that bad for Britain when the Services industry is not included.
Not sure the threat of no deal was ever real, the transition could have been extended. It’s been done to get it rushed through with minimal scrutiny.
Do you have any proof whatsoever for the tax rise/tax cut thing?
Yeah that didn’t work so well for the Iraq war. This is boris’ deal whoever votes for it. Starmer is right, every single one of those abstaining of voting against would vote for if they didn’t have the cover of adults doing their job.
It’s a total fantasy that anyone upset with Brexit is going to blame Kier Starmer FFS. Also the vast vast majority of the public remain and leave Labour or not support this strategy.
You'd think it absurd that the current government still blames a government of 10 years ago for austerity but here we areYeah that didn’t work so well for the Iraq war. This is boris’ deal whoever votes for it. Starmer is right, every single one of those abstaining of voting against would vote for if they didn’t have the cover of adults doing their job.
It’s a total fantasy that anyone upset with Brexit is going to blame Kier Starmer FFS. Also the vast vast majority of the public remain and leave Labour or not support this strategy.
The lack of a deal for Services is a huge concern for the UK and the deflection around fishing seems to have kept it out of the spotlight.Gove said last night it was a great deal for the service industries even though they're not included!
I know politicians have always been liars but this mob are off the scale.
As for the zero tariff access the EU can impose tariffs and other sanctions on UK exports if they diverge from EU standards, do you know if there is any mechanism or circumstance for the UK to do likewise to the EU?
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