The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    As from which cut off date?
     
  2. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that we should gift houses to the homeless (British only, of course?)
     
  3. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    60 million?

    If only.
     
  4. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    While we are good at doing it to our own. ;)
     
  5. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    You keep using the term gift.
     
  6. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    How did the EU fuck Romania up more than Ceaucesco? As an example.
     
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  7. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    What would be your solution?
     
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  8. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    I will agree that both sides are posturing. It will go to the last minute. We only have to look at CCFC and the Ricoh to see how these things go. We will do a deal with Wasps.... but late in the day. In the meantime there will be talk about the Butts or Hinckley or Nuneaton. At the end we will be at the Ricoh. Same here, there will be talk of 100, 60, 50 million. No deal. Then we’re not talking. Then a mediator, or they meet on the sidelines of an event informally.. and then it’s back on .. at the last minute it is 40 billion Euro.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  9. SIR ERNIE

    SIR ERNIE Well-Known Member

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    These so called negotiators for the EU really are a joke. It’s obvious that they know they’re on shaky ground regarding the divorce payment.

    If they’d had any confidence in their right to demand megabucks, the first thing they’d have done would have been to present the UK team with a bill on day one of the talks that was close to 100% irrefutable. A bill that had been prepared as a result of top EU lawyers scrutinising the agreements between the UK and EU and calculating the UK’s financial liability. A bill that they’d be confident would stand up in court if necessary.

    The fact that they still haven’t done that speaks volumes, it tells us and importantly the UK team that the EU position is weak and that the utter clown Barnier is grandstanding.
     
  10. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Considering that the EU is on the verge of collapse and a wide range of countries are on the verge of leaving, I'm actually surprised that the EU hasn't tried to get whatever it can and give Britain an incredibly favourable trade deal. It's almost like they won't just roll over and do what we say!!
     
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  11. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    They have asked us what we think we owe. We have said we will honour our commitments. I don’t know why this cannot be discussed behind closed doors. Barnier must also have a list which he should put on the table.
     
  12. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    They don't have a clue. They are plucking figures out of the sky. There is no detailed bill and no acknowledge we have spent hundred of billions since we joined for "free trade"

    What about our stake in the EU buildings that we helped fund and what about us having a massive trade decifict with the EU. We buy around double what we sell them.

    Just like a dodgy TV. They should be paying us our money back and we get the hell out there.
     
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  13. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    You were talking about the problems in Ireland. So I thought I would too.
    The fear about returning to violence is not of Britain as a whole becoming violent - just the Irish (NI & ROI)! They don't need to return to violence...some rhetoric suggests a desire to encourage it though...like on QT tonight talking about 'hard borders'

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  14. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    And long may they enjoy it

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  15. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Would you say at some time that when you leave a club you want your membership fees back? Or your ST money back for the last 20 years if you stop supporting CCFC? That is past tense.

    The trade deficit is not money you get back at some future time.

    The buildings should be deducted from the bill.
     
  16. SkyblueBazza

    SkyblueBazza Well-Known Member

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    As I have already said...SB mentioned the problems in Ireland. By that I read 'troubles' - & some are using Brexit to suggest 'troubles' could start again - THAT would be a problem, the rhetoric using such veiled threats is a problem too. Brexit itself is no reason to take up arms

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  17. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No one in Ireland deserves this. We have a GFA which assumes we are in the EU. By leaving we’re breaking the agreement. There may well be violence if there is a hard border. The Brexiteers caused this problem. The government could solve the problem by leaving NI in the Customs Union as suggested by the EU. But, they cannot because they are reliant on the DUP.
     
  18. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is...or rather could be construed as a reason. Brexit is certainly a reason for being discontent.
     
  19. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Fine. I just don't think the bill is being fairly accounted for and the EU as we know are all about money and the UK want a trade deal. The EU want the divorce bill settling before trade talks can take place.

    Seems a bit rich to me when we buy more than we sell. I agree the UK should pay its legal amount (whatever the frig that is) and not a penny piece more.
     
  20. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    A decent post ruined by the last line.

    I say again. It isn't millions of Euro's they are after. It is billions.

    The EU divorce bill

    Hope this explains it to you a bit.
     
  21. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    We have paid over half a trillion pounds into the EU project over the years. Yes over 500,000,000,000 pounds.

    Now we have a divorce to pay for a marriage we didn't walk down the aisle to.

    When the 2015 EU accounts were drawn up, outstanding loans to Hungary, Ireland, Portugal and Ukraine collectively amounted to €49.5 billion. The EU’s latest approach asks the UK to make a lump-sum payment upfront to cover these liabilities, in case they materialise in the future. This increases the upfront divorce bill by €9–12 billion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  22. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Would you like to pay for your ST for many years after you stop going? Would you be happy if you had to pay for dodgy loans that SISU had made?

    And they are saying that we own nothing of the EU structure even though we paid for a lot of it.

    Then you wonder why a deal is nowhere near close.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  23. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Try to not look at it through pro EU goggles.

    Ireland should be treated as one country. Nobody should want any risk of past atrocities returning. So who wants a hard border splitting the country into two?

    The UK certainly doesn't want a hard border. I would love to see the day that Ireland could be fully united. Just like what happened with Germany.

    So who holds all the cards on how borders will look like? It certainly isn't the Irish or the UK government.

    Yet you try and blame it all on those who voted to leave.
     
  24. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    they're not asking for an open border but an easing of visa requirements, (I think mainly for people who want to study in the UK).
    I don't know what the current criteria for an Indian citizen to get into other EU countries is but this would be a separate arrangement in the same way any post Brexit trade deal we sign would be separate from the EU.
     
  25. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to Brexit. It's a bit strange after all the talk of the borders being tightened up, yet now it now appears that the open border policy with the EU is fine?
     
  26. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Look back at what has been said. Stated as though India wants open borders for a trade deal.

    English is clearly the second most spoken language in India. And they have a lot. About an eighth of the Indian population can speak in English. No other European language even registers there.

    Saying that more go to Germany than here. They take English spoken degrees there. And the courses are free.
     
  27. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    In am ideal world NI would remain in the Customs Union but the DUP aren't going to allow that to happen, therefore a hard border is likely.

    It is inevitable that the UK will deregulate, I can't see the Irish being happy with an open border in that circumstance. Of course, it's all the EU's fault. It's also strange that you are now all for open borders with the EU?
     
  28. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    So one size fits all?

    Would you be happy for Ireland to be split into two again?
     
  29. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    No of course not, which is why NI should remain in the customs union.
     
  30. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    So trade borders and freedom of movement for residents is the same?

    As I have said countless times I am not against migration. But I am against total freedom of migration where you can move without funds, a job and somewhere to live. You don't need any skills that are needed. All you need is an EU passport.

    Good in principle. Not good for countries planning for the future.
     
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  31. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    So why do I get shot down for saying the same?
     
  32. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    As I said, if the UK leaves the customs union along with NI it's inevitably going to bring about a hard border unless the UK maintains EU standards. This is of the UK's making.
     
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  33. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Apologies, haven't seen you mention that. NI doing so would make this a lot easier and likely mean checks or people to the mainland could be implemented as well.
     
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  34. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    Here's what Tony said:

    "Will we be able to make a free trade agreement with India without relaxing control of our border with India beyond what it is currently as an EU member state?"

    He was talking about relaxation of the border not open border, that's what India want in return for a favourable trade deal and stated so during Mays visit.
     
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  35. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Ireland being an island gives all sorts of possibilities. We shouldn't discount anything.

    Now it is all down to making the best out of a shit situation. Both leave and remain voters should want the same. What is best going forward for the UK.

    Many wonder why the talks are not going forward. But all you have to do is look at what is happening on a football forum. Some still haven't been able to move on from the vote that was well over a year ago.
     
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