The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (2 Viewers)

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
Read any papers lately? Listened to any leading politicians? Noticed any unified stance on Brexit and Brexit negotiations? Or do you mean your bins still get emptied and the buses are still running?

You are looking at it from the outside. You live in a different EU country.

We were told how bad it would get if we voted leave. The total opposite has happened in some predictions. The predictions were supposed to have been done by those who know.

Those people who supposedly know have made more predictions. They are similar to those that should have happened after the leave vote.

Yet those like myself who rubbished their claims are called thick and similar other names. We are not sheep. We understand economics. We understand bullying. We understand what both sides are up to.

The EU isn't in harmony. Many EU countries are having problems. Freedom of movement is causing people to protest. Some might just use a protest vote. But a racist vote to protest?

You call an eighth of the German population nothing worthwhile. That has come from nothing 4 years ago. But Farage has caused all the problems and got us to vote leave in the UK you say.

In France the second biggest party is the racist one. The PM is sliding down the polls. Who knows what is going to happen next.

SB's favourite country Italy are in disarray. But he keeps the spotlight on us.

Italy is BIGGEST threat to the EU right now: Analyst in terrifying warning for Brussels

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

So when are you planning to escape to Verona SB?

The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge

'Europe is crashing!' Italian MP demands Italy's own EU referendum to leave FAILING bloc

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
You are looking at it from the outside. You live in a different EU country.

We were told how bad it would get if we voted leave. The total opposite has happened in some predictions. The predictions were supposed to have been done by those who know.

Those people who supposedly know have made more predictions. They are similar to those that should have happened after the leave vote.

Yet those like myself who rubbished their claims are called thick and similar other names. We are not sheep. We understand economics. We understand bullying. We understand what both sides are up to.

The EU isn't in harmony. Many EU countries are having problems. Freedom of movement is causing people to protest. Some might just use a protest vote. But a racist vote to protest?

You call an eighth of the German population nothing worthwhile. That has come from nothing 4 years ago. But Farage has caused all the problems and got us to vote leave in the UK you say.

In France the second biggest party is the racist one. The PM is sliding down the polls. Who knows what is going to happen next.

SB's favourite country Italy are in disarray. But he keeps the spotlight on us.

Italy is BIGGEST threat to the EU right now: Analyst in terrifying warning for Brussels

Read it. I saw „Express“ and „terrifying“ and knew that it was a no news story. I read some reader comments and saw that the sheep were straight on it.

As regards your knew found allies the AfD, see what happens on Sunday in Lower Sayony state elections. Merkel‘s party is polling about 32, the SPD 35 and AfD under 8. Means 92 are not voting extreme right. AfD is regional. In my ward/ constituency they polled 3,4 and Kiel as a whole 6 in the election.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
You are looking at it from the outside. You live in a different EU country.

We were told how bad it would get if we voted leave. The total opposite has happened in some predictions. The predictions were supposed to have been done by those who know.

Those people who supposedly know have made more predictions. They are similar to those that should have happened after the leave vote.

Yet those like myself who rubbished their claims are called thick and similar other names. We are not sheep. We understand economics. We understand bullying. We understand what both sides are up to.

The EU isn't in harmony. Many EU countries are having problems. Freedom of movement is causing people to protest. Some might just use a protest vote. But a racist vote to protest?

You call an eighth of the German population nothing worthwhile. That has come from nothing 4 years ago. But Farage has caused all the problems and got us to vote leave in the UK you say.

In France the second biggest party is the racist one. The PM is sliding down the polls. Who knows what is going to happen next.

SB's favourite country Italy are in disarray. But he keeps the spotlight on us.

Italy is BIGGEST threat to the EU right now: Analyst in terrifying warning for Brussels

I was there last weekend and early last week and I didn't see any disarray, life was the same as ever with beautiful sun and friendly pepole.

My favourite country is Ireland,BTW. I have had a weakness for Italian women for the last 10 years though.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
So when are you planning to escape to Verona SB?

The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge

'Europe is crashing!' Italian MP demands Italy's own EU referendum to leave FAILING bloc

Likely around April next year. I've already stated that there is a lot of resentment there towards the Euro but not the EU. I have met quite a few people who wanted out of the € but not the EU. The only people I met who were anti EU were La Lega voters but they also want a vote to leave Italy.

I presume the 2nd link is the Express, so am not going to touch it. It's probably the worst rag of the lot.

Edit: couldn't resist second link and saw it was the moronic 5star who have lost a lot of support once they got any sort of power and have been shown as utterly clueless and there seems to be a nice corruption scandal surrounding them each week.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
So you think we should remain in the EU and have laws influenced by the likes of Mr Barnier?

Wow

No it's far better to leave and be at the mercy of nice men like Mr Trump.

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
Only if the British electorate elect him as a representative of parliament.

Apropos electorate.... is that the same one that May wants to bypass with Henry VIII powers, who don’t have any say in the upper house and who have to obey all laws signed by an unelected monarch? Still, as the saying goes.... that’s democracy, get over it..

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
Read it. I saw „Express“ and „terrifying“ and knew that it was a no news story. I read some reader comments and saw that the sheep were straight on it.

As regards your knew found allies the AfD, see what happens on Sunday in Lower Sayony state elections. Merkel‘s party is polling about 32, the SPD 35 and AfD under 8. Means 92 are not voting extreme right. AfD is regional. In my ward/ constituency they polled 3,4 and Kiel as a whole 6 in the election.

OMG.

There isn't a vote coming up. So wherever your numbers came from the truth has been twisted.

An eight of the German population did vote AfD. My new found allies? You can fuck off if you are implying that I am racist in any way.

All I have done is stated the facts. Things are not all good in the EU. Do you think insulting people will hide the truth?

Grendel · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
Apropos electorate.... is that the same one that May wants to bypass with Henry VIII powers, who don’t have any say in the upper house and who have to obey all laws signed by an unelected monarch? Still, as the saying goes.... that’s democracy, get over it..

I think you genuinely are insane if you believe that

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Likely around April next year. I've already stated that there is a lot of resentment there towards the Euro but not the EU. I have met quite a few people who wanted out of the € but not the EU. The only people I met who were anti EU were La Lega voters but they also want a vote to leave Italy.

I presume the 2nd link is the Express, so am not going to touch it. It's probably the worst rag of the lot.

Edit: couldn't resist second link and saw it was the moronic 5star who have lost a lot of support once they got any sort of power and have been shown as utterly clueless and there seems to be a nice corruption scandal surrounding them each week.

I haven't said what parties are good or bad. But 47% of the Italians are saying that the Euro is bad for them. That also doesn't mean that 53% think it is good.

If they come out of the Euro they most probably would also come out of the EU. And that isn't me saying it.

And no I didn't quote The Sun.

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
Apropos electorate.... is that the same one that May wants to bypass with Henry VIII powers, who don’t have any say in the upper house and who have to obey all laws signed by an unelected monarch? Still, as the saying goes.... that’s democracy, get over it..

So it is now the fault of the Queen?

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
I haven't said what parties are good or bad. But 47% of the Italians are saying that the Euro is bad for them. That also doesn't mean that 53% think it is good.

If they come out of the Euro they most probably would also come out of the EU. And that isn't me saying it.

And no I didn't quote The Sun.

That doesn't mean they think it is bad either. Did you see the latest poll in the UK regarding Brexit? It now has the lowest support since the referendum.

Labour flags up Brexit poll suggesting public regrets decision

Grendel · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
That doesn't mean they think it is bad either. Did you see the latest poll in the UK regarding Brexit? It now has the lowest support since the referendum.

Macron has the lowest support rating in France of a sitting president - should they have another election do you think?

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
Macron has the lowest support rating in France of a sitting president - should they have another election do you think?

Well they will be in a few years. Comparing a referendum to a presidential vote is ridiculous.

Grendel · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Well they will be in a few years. Comparing a referendum to a presidential vote is ridiculous.

So you also accept the you gov poll conducting a few weeks ago in which 70% stated we must ensure brexit happens regardless of actual individual views?

The poll you are referring to pretty much says the same thing if you actually analyse it properly doesn't it?

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
So you also accept the you gov poll conducting a few weeks ago in which 70% stated we must ensure brexit happens regardless of actual individual views?

The poll you are referring to pretty much says the same thing if you actually analyse it properly doesn't it?

IMO wider public opinion will turn more and more against it. It'd be interesting to see your stance then, especially after your posts about democracy.

I think FP had it bang on a few posts ago, and a lot of people are very wary of the current government's real agenda, which was clearly demonstrated at the election. I guess for some people the degraded headlines such as Crush the Saboteurs was a step too far.

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
So it is now the fault of the Queen?

Love the queen, hate the system

Kingokings204 · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
That doesn't mean they think it is bad either. Did you see the latest poll in the UK regarding Brexit? It now has the lowest support since the referendum.

Labour flags up Brexit poll suggesting public regrets decision

A Poll of pro-Remain respondents, conducted by a pro-Remain organisation, delivers a pro-Remain result.

As a side note the guardian is losing money each week at the moment. When I clicked your link they begged me for a £5 donation to them via paypal. I declined.

Kingokings204 · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
Love the queen, hate the system

She has no power though does she?

Ashdown · Oct 14, 2017

martcov said:
The traitors in this game are the ones who are taking us out of the EU. You like following the pied pipers though. If you cared about the future of the UK you wouldn‘t be following the likes of Murdoch, Gove, Johnson and the smug creep Farage. Hope you are enjoying the present chaos.

Chaos, oh please !

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
A Poll of pro-Remain respondents, conducted by a pro-Remain organisation, delivers a pro-Remain result.

As a side note the guardian is losing money each week at the moment. When I clicked your link they begged me for a £5 donation to them via paypal. I declined.

Just my opinion as well, which we are all entitled to.

A lot of newspapers are moving behind paywalls. I suppose the Telegraph must be in an even dire situation?

Kingokings204 · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
So when are you planning to escape to Verona SB?

The greatest threat to the EU lies in Italy, a country on the edge

'Europe is crashing!' Italian MP demands Italy's own EU referendum to leave FAILING bloc

I think Italy is in real trouble. I will happily admit I don't know much at all about Italian culture or even Italian politics but I know more their economic situation and being so close to North Africa and the terrible scenes we see I feel they have a bad hand.

When the banking crisis hits which seems inevitable looking at debt to GDP ratio for the country and the bond markets then the real questions will come.

Kingokings204 · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Just my opinion as well, which we are all entitled to.

A lot of newspapers are moving behind paywalls. I suppose the Telegraph must be in an even dire situation?

Do you mean the telegraph of the coventry telegraph? Either way. The guardian is the daily mail of the left. It's very noticeable when stories are slow coming all they do is create a headline about the traitor farage or someone universally hated by the left and then everyone is in uproar. It's obvious the gaurdian and the daily mail just play to their captive audience. The gaurdian hate farage and Boris and the daily mail hate any Remainer. I prefer to make my own mind.

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
I think Italy is in real trouble. I will happily admit I don't know much at all about Italian culture or even Italian politics but I know more their economic situation and being so close to North Africa and the terrible scenes we see I feel they have a bad hand.

When the banking crisis hits which seems inevitable looking at debt to GDP ratio for the country and the bond markets then the real questions will come.

And they are also worried about if we get a trade deal or not. When we leave the EU they will have to put more money in.

There are so many things that can make their situation worse.

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
I think you genuinely are insane if you believe that

What that May wants to shove 40 years of laws without parliamentary revision?

skybluetony176 · Oct 14, 2017

Grendel said:
Macron has the lowest support rating in France of a sitting president - should they have another election do you think?

They will have another election you idiot.

David Davis said while arguing for a referendum “"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy." that was his whole argument as to why we should have a referendum even though we had already had one to join. By suggesting that we can’t have another referendum because it’s undemocratic in some way just seems to me as the leave camp is running scared as they know all the bullshit of the referendum campaigns has been called and they don’t fancy their chances in an informed referendum. Hardly democracy in action.

Astute · Oct 14, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
They will have another election you idiot.

David Davis said while arguing for a referendum “"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy." that was his whole argument as to why we should have a referendum even though we had already had one to join. By suggesting that we can’t have another referendum because it’s undemocratic in some way just seems to me as the leave camp is running scared as they know all the bullshit of the referendum campaigns has been called and they don’t fancy their chances in an informed referendum. Hardly democracy in action.

Your idea of democracy seems to be keep voting until we get the result that you want.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Do you mean the telegraph of the coventry telegraph? Either way. The guardian is the daily mail of the left. It's very noticeable when stories are slow coming all they do is create a headline about the traitor farage or someone universally hated by the left and then everyone is in uproar. It's obvious the gaurdian and the daily mail just play to their captive audience. The gaurdian hate farage and Boris and the daily mail hate any Remainer. I prefer to make my own mind.

The Mail seem to directly challenge democracy and seems to think being a gay ex fencer is a major defect of someone's personality. Let's not forget the phone hacking scandel that I believe was unearthed by the Guardian?

Plenty of those to the right of the Guardian also detest Farage as well, btw.

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Do you mean the telegraph of the coventry telegraph? Either way. The guardian is the daily mail of the left. It's very noticeable when stories are slow coming all they do is create a headline about the traitor farage or someone universally hated by the left and then everyone is in uproar. It's obvious the gaurdian and the daily mail just play to their captive audience. The gaurdian hate farage and Boris and the daily mail hate any Remainer. I prefer to make my own mind.

It is insulting people’s intelligence to compare the Guardian with the Mail as regards journalistic quality. It may be left of centre, but the target readership is totally different. You only have to read Astute‘s links to see what the target readership of the Express is. The type of reporting is designed for the target readership. The Sun was reputedly targeted at people with a reading age of at least an eight year old.

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
Your idea of democracy seems to be keep voting until we get the result that you want.

He was quoting Davis.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

MailOnline Attacks Brexit Judge For Being ‘Openly Gay’ | HuffPost UK

I'm confused why the lovers of democracy on this thread made no comment on this when it happened?

skybluetony176 · Oct 14, 2017

Astute said:
Your idea of democracy seems to be keep voting until we get the result that you want.

Not really. If the right result is leave in a second referendum so be it. The unfortunate truth is a lot of people didn’t understand what they were voting for and have only been educated since. I don’t understand why people would have an issue with a referendum result based on true understanding. Don’t forget both campaigns were bullshitting to the highest degree. Who’s to say that someone wanted to vote leave but didn’t because they were worried about WW3 or emergency crisis budgets for example followed by a complete crash of the British economy? A second referendum could deliver an unequivocal victory for the leave campaign. Have you ever considered that?

martcov · Oct 14, 2017

Ashdown said:
Chaos, oh please !

No need to beg.. it’s already started

Kingokings204 · Oct 14, 2017

Sick Boy said:
MailOnline Attacks Brexit Judge For Being ‘Openly Gay’ | HuffPost UK

I'm confused why the lovers of democracy on this thread made no comment on this when it happened?

But the huffington post is just as bad as the gaurdian. Very very left. The daily mail is very very right. They hate eachother as idealogies and newspapers.

Better off making your own mind from the research you do.

Yes btw I don't see what the judge being gay has anything to do with it so I ignore it. It's an article to whip up a storm. That's journalism. Both papers do it.

Sick Boy · Oct 14, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
But the huffington post is just as bad as the gaurdian. Very very left. The daily mail is very very right. They hate eachother as idealogies and newspapers.

Better off making your own mind from the research you do.

Yes btw I don't see what the judge being gay has anything to do with it so I ignore it. It's an article to whip up a storm. That's journalism. Both papers do it.

To claim the Guardian does the equivalent of the Mail is absurd. I'm not sure why it is a characteristic of a very left wing publication to be critical of the Mail's attack.

I'd also challenge the Guardian as being very very left. It's left but not to the extent you claim. Until recently it regarded Corbyn to be too left.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (2 Viewers)

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