The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (23 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Oct 25, 2017

It's interesting that when Gina Miller had her moment and many people were accusing her of trying to derail Brexit, a lot of remainers were saying that she was only trying to be democratic and was purely acting in the interests of the UK by ensuring the government went about the right processes.

This morning once again she says openly she thinks Brexit is something we will regret. I suppose it's a good cover up. It's funny, because there are many on here who are wearing the same mask...

Now that it is happening, it would be a lot better for us as a whole country to get behind it. It's the only chance of success we might have.

clint van damme · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's interesting that when Gina Miller had her moment and many people were accusing her of trying to derail Brexit, a lot of remainers were saying that she was only trying to be democratic and was purely acting in the interests of the UK by ensuring the government went about the right processes.

This morning once again she says openly she thinks Brexit is something we will regret. I suppose it's a good cover up. It's funny, because there are many on here who are wearing the same mask...

Now that it is happening, it would be a lot better for us as a whole country to get behind it. It's the only chance of success we might have.

she didn't want Parliament by passed. I though part of Brexit was about the upholding of British law?
What do you mean, get behind Brexit? Why would you get behind it if you think it's going to fail? Why don't you go onto the football forum and post that we should all get behind playing two holding midfielders even though it isn't working?
In my last few posts I've posted some queries about parts of the process that I don't understand and all you get are answers about bulldog spirit and getting behind it. It's like a cult now or like the NRA where you can do anything but criticise firearms.

chiefdave · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Oct 25, 2017

clint van damme said:
she didn't want Parliament by passed. I though part of Brexit was about the upholding of British law?
What do you mean, get behind Brexit? Why would you get behind it if you think it's going to fail? Why don't you go onto the football forum and post that we should all get behind playing two holding midfielders even though it isn't working?
In my last few posts I've posted some queries about parts of the process that I don't understand and all you get are answers about bulldog spirit and getting behind it. It's like a cult now or like the NRA where you can do anything but criticise firearms.

It clearly is nothing to do with that. It was clearly all along her not wanting Brexit to happen and throwing her toys out the pram in any way possible, her chosen commodity being court cases.

That's the problem, some people say Brexit will work, others say it won't. If you were that worried about the outcome for the UK, now that there is no option to turn back, surely the right thing to do would be to get behind it and give it a chance? Then I suppose at least if it doesn't work, people will be able to feed their ego's and say 'I told you so'. How are we even going to know without giving it a fair crack? This comes from people within government, all the way down to the roots of an EU thread on SBT.

The reason you are getting bulldog spirit references being thrown around is because there are many people who would happily see the country fail so that they can be proved right. You wouldn't have got that during the war, and if you had, we would have lost. It's like a defeatist mentality. It's the same thing as we see the 'negotiations' go further. The EU display their true colours more and more each day, but instead of anyone saying, 'even as a remainer, I disagree with that', in many cases they are just throwing their support behind them even more. Why? Because people cannot accept being wrong, or that they lost. They'd rather side with something that seeks to destroy our culture and heritage.

The EU certainly doesn't care about us, and since we have voted to leave you can see that even more.

For the record, two holding midfielders is working, as we are conceding almost zero goals. It's the wingers/attacking mid/strikers that are fluffing their lines.

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

clint van damme said:
she didn't want Parliament by passed. I though part of Brexit was about the upholding of British law?
What do you mean, get behind Brexit? Why would you get behind it if you think it's going to fail? Why don't you go onto the football forum and post that we should all get behind playing two holding midfielders even though it isn't working?
In my last few posts I've posted some queries about parts of the process that I don't understand and all you get are answers about bulldog spirit and getting behind it. It's like a cult now or like the NRA where you can do anything but criticise firearms.

Well I actually posted an example of a country with 38 free trade arrangements that were not linked to the EU

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

Grendel said:
That’s not what this says - can you get s link to where you are seeing this?

What the EU could learn from Switzerland’s free trade agreement with China

Most interesting thing from that article is that it took four years to sort. We leave the EU in less than 2.

Sick Boy · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's interesting that when Gina Miller had her moment and many people were accusing her of trying to derail Brexit, a lot of remainers were saying that she was only trying to be democratic and was purely acting in the interests of the UK by ensuring the government went about the right processes.

This morning once again she says openly she thinks Brexit is something we will regret. I suppose it's a good cover up. It's funny, because there are many on here who are wearing the same mask...

Now that it is happening, it would be a lot better for us as a whole country to get behind it. It's the only chance of success we might have.

She ensured that the correct democratic procedure was followed. What's wrong with that?

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's interesting that when Gina Miller had her moment and many people were accusing her of trying to derail Brexit, a lot of remainers were saying that she was only trying to be democratic and was purely acting in the interests of the UK by ensuring the government went about the right processes.

This morning once again she says openly she thinks Brexit is something we will regret. I suppose it's a good cover up. It's funny, because there are many on here who are wearing the same mask...

Now that it is happening, it would be a lot better for us as a whole country to get behind it. It's the only chance of success we might have.

Funniest thing about that whole scenario was the brexit claim that we’ll be free to make our own laws yet when it came to a parliamentary law that predates the EU they wanted to ignore it. All Gina Miller did was ensure that constitutional UK law was adhered to. After all that is what we’ve voted for for decades if not centuries.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Oct 25, 2017

Sick Boy said:
She ensured that the correct democratic procedure was followed. What's wrong with that?

Her true intention is to derail Brexit. There's nothing moral about her.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Oct 25, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Funniest thing about that whole scenario was the brexit claim that we’ll be free to make our own laws yet when it came to a parliamentary law that predates the EU they wanted to ignore it. All Gina Miller did was ensure that constitutional UK law was adhered to. After all that is what we’ve voted for for decades if not centuries.

You must be either stupid or naive to think that Gina Miller's actions were in the best interests of democracy. She simply doesn't want Brexit, and by fighting against that in the she has, she has shown to be anything but democratic..

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Most interesting thing from that article is that it took four years to sort. We leave the EU in less than 2.

Oh hello tony. Yes remarkably quick isn’t it when you are on your own. It took 7 years for the eu and Canada to come to an arrangement.

Sick Boy · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Her true intention is to derail Brexit. There's nothing moral about her.

She wanted parliament to have a vote in line with our laws. Great to see her voted most influential black woman this week, don't you think?

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Her true intention is to derail Brexit. There's nothing moral about her.

She also of course likes to boast of having a law degree - without actually having one

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

Sick Boy said:
She wanted parliament to have a vote in line with our laws. Great to see her voted most influential black woman this week, don't you think?

I fail to see the point of such awards - especially if they are used for political intent as this clearly is.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Oct 25, 2017

Sick Boy said:
She wanted parliament to have a vote in line with our laws. Great to see her voted most influential black woman this week, don't you think?

No, actually I think it is ridiculous. Unsurprising to see the BBC peddling this too.

This is how retarded we have become. A woman who wants to dismantle democracy, with the perfect cover up of pretending to fight for democracy, wins an award.

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

clint van damme said:
no one is arguing whether they've done deals or not, it's the terms of the deals.
Do you think a free trade deal where it won't actually be free trade for 15 years is the sort of deal we should be looking for? I'm not saying it isn't, I honestly wouldn't know but it doesn't appear to be something we should be striving for and as I say, doesn't cover service industries.

You also have to add that some of those countries on the list is because of Switzerlands membership of EFTA, 9 countries on the list are still in negotiations and many of the countries on the list also enjoy tariff free trade with the EU already through the GSP scheme.

clint van damme · Oct 25, 2017

Grendel said:
Well I actually posted an example of a country with 38 free trade arrangements that were not linked to the EU

And I gave you a specific example of one which appears to weigh heavily in favour of the larger trading partner. Note I said appeared, I'm quite happy for someone to point out to me why it's a great deal for Switzerland and a good example for us to follow.
I also asked about the nuances of WTO trade deals but no ones answered.Again, I said I find it confusing and am quite happy for someone to reassure me why everything's fine.

clint van damme · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You must be either stupid or naive to think that Gina Miller's actions were in the best interests of democracy. She simply doesn't want Brexit, and by fighting against that in the she has, she has shown to be anything but democratic..

you must be stupid if you can't see how Parliament was by passed whatever Gina Milers motives were, her point was still correct.

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You must be either stupid or naive to think that Gina Miller's actions were in the best interests of democracy. She simply doesn't want Brexit, and by fighting against that in the she has, she has shown to be anything but democratic..

I’m sure she did them in her best interest but let’s not pretend that it also didn’t act in the best interests of democracy. If you’re happy for the government to pick and choose what constitutional laws they adhere to you’re basically saying that you’re happy with a dictatorship. That’s not democracy. We’ve repeatedly voted in governments on the premise of them adhering to our constitutional law. All she’s done is make sure that the law is followed and parliament rules on it as per the constitution.

martcov · Oct 25, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Fair enough it's his opinion but does in live in a run down labour area that heavily voted leave in the referendum? Does he have to put up with cant getting gp appointments, his kids getting a primary school place, mass immigration from Eastern Europe decreasing jobs and wages in the area, lack of housing?

Do me a favor. You really don't get the referendum result do you. We voted to leave in spite of people like him. But as long as Bloomberg is ok hey and his billions are ok?

You voted to leave, 48% of voters didn’t. That is a large minority and they won’t just think Brexit it is a good idea because you want them to. In fact as time goes on they will become more anti Brexit, unless people like you can show the benefits to them.

martcov · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's interesting that when Gina Miller had her moment and many people were accusing her of trying to derail Brexit, a lot of remainers were saying that she was only trying to be democratic and was purely acting in the interests of the UK by ensuring the government went about the right processes.

This morning once again she says openly she thinks Brexit is something we will regret. I suppose it's a good cover up. It's funny, because there are many on here who are wearing the same mask...

Now that it is happening, it would be a lot better for us as a whole country to get behind it. It's the only chance of success we might have.

Are you getting behind Tim Fisher and SISU? They are our Brexit.

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

Grendel said:
Oh hello tony. Yes remarkably quick isn’t it when you are on your own. It took 7 years for the eu and Canada to come to an arrangement.

So is it likely to take us the same then? Do you think our deal will be equal or better than the EU-Canada deal? Does that mean we have five years of WTO terms to look forward to with Canada?

martcov · Oct 25, 2017

Kingokings204 said:
Fair enough it's his opinion but does in live in a run down labour area that heavily voted leave in the referendum? Does he have to put up with cant getting gp appointments, his kids getting a primary school place, mass immigration from Eastern Europe decreasing jobs and wages in the area, lack of housing?

Do me a favor. You really don't get the referendum result do you. We voted to leave in spite of people like him. But as long as Bloomberg is ok hey and his billions are ok?

I thought you are a fan of rich people like Trump, Murdoch, Farage, Aaron Banks etc etc. . I am just pointing out that not all rich people follow the populist line.

skybluetony176 · Oct 25, 2017

Grendel said:
I fail to see the point of such awards - especially if they are used for political intent as this clearly is.

Black people are marginalised, women are marginalised. Unless you’re a sexist racist why wouldn’t you see the point of such an award?

martcov · Oct 25, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
I'm sure he'll get over it.

Well he probably will, but millions won’t.

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

martcov said:
You voted to leave, 48% of voters didn’t. That is a large minority and they won’t just think Brexit it is a good idea because you want them to. In fact as time goes on they will become more anti Brexit, unless people like you can show the benefits to them.

48% of the voting public didn’t vote to stay. People will only change when it happens and after 5 years of leaving everyone will think what was all the fuss about.

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

martcov said:
‚Brexit: Michael Bloomberg says leaving EU 'stupidest thing any country has ever done' - apart from electing Trump
Former New York mayor says he may not have built his £1bn HQ in London had he known the referendum result‘

fair point

May not - but he did - and then admits London will remain a business powerhouse. Hey ho

chiefdave · Oct 25, 2017

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
surely the right thing to do would be to get behind it and give it a chance?

IMO it needs some good news to get people onside. At the moment we've got May being ineffectual, Boris trying to disrupt things and performances like the one from Davis this morning.

If people saw things starting to move forward I reckon more people would get onboard. As it is we've already gone from this is going to be fantastic to maybe we can get the same deals we have now as an EU member to there might not be a deal at all. No plans have been revealed for any of the regulatory bodies that have to be replaced. There's nothing to inspire confidence that we're prepared for the day we leave.

Ashdown · Oct 25, 2017

chiefdave said:
IMO it needs some good news to get people onside. At the moment we've got May being ineffectual, Boris trying to disrupt things and performances like the one from Davis this morning.

If people saw things starting to move forward I reckon more people would get onboard. As it is we've already gone from this is going to be fantastic to maybe we can get the same deals we have now as an EU member to there might not be a deal at all. No plans have been revealed for any of the regulatory bodies that have to be replaced. There's nothing to inspire confidence that we're prepared for the day we leave.

The EU are refusing to let things move forward !

Sick Boy · Oct 25, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Black people are marginalised, women are marginalised. Unless you’re a sexist racist why wouldn’t you see the point of such an award?

I knew they wouldn't be able to let that one go.

chiefdave · Oct 25, 2017

Ashdown said:
The EU are refusing to let things move forward !

Who it is down to doesn't really matter. We're essentially no further forward than the morning after the vote. We've got 520 days until we leave people need to be given some assurance we will actually be ready.

Can't just turn round and say its the EU's fault when we're the ones who stuck two fingers up to them and said we were leaving.

Kingokings204 · Oct 25, 2017

chiefdave said:
IMO it needs some good news to get people onside. At the moment we've got May being ineffectual, Boris trying to disrupt things and performances like the one from Davis this morning.

If people saw things starting to move forward I reckon more people would get onboard. As it is we've already gone from this is going to be fantastic to maybe we can get the same deals we have now as an EU member to there might not be a deal at all. No plans have been revealed for any of the regulatory bodies that have to be replaced. There's nothing to inspire confidence that we're prepared for the day we leave.

A really good post. Fair post. I voted brexit but unfortunately as you state it doesn't appear much positive news at the moment. It needs good news but it will take time. Both sides appear to be stalling and negotiating and being awkward. you could argue both sides want Britain to stay in the EU as well and that doesn't help with moving forward.

I agree with Grendel I think in the long run we will be very prosperous but until this plays out everyone is left looking at the bad stuff for now.

Kingokings204 · Oct 25, 2017

chiefdave said:
Who it is down to doesn't really matter. We're essentially no further forward than the morning after the vote. We've got 520 days until we leave people need to be given some assurance we will actually be ready.

Can't just turn round and say its the EU's fault when we're the ones who stuck two fingers up to them and said we were leaving.

I wouldn't say we stuck 2 fingers up. We decided on a different course for our country although I get your point. We need to plan for no deal even though I don't think it will ever come to that.

Kingokings204 · Oct 25, 2017

clint van damme said:
you must be stupid if you can't see how Parliament was by passed whatever Gina Milers motives were, her point was still correct.

That's the problem a lot of leavers had. She did it for her own self interest and gain. She was right but her reasons stank. I'm sure she wouldn't of complained to the high court if she had the result she wanted. I think that's fair to say.

Grendel · Oct 25, 2017

chiefdave said:
Who it is down to doesn't really matter. We're essentially no further forward than the morning after the vote. We've got 520 days until we leave people need to be given some assurance we will actually be ready.

Can't just turn round and say its the EU's fault when we're the ones who stuck two fingers up to them and said we were leaving.

We left through democratic process. What about the jobs and industries in Europe who will be 12 billion worse once we leave of trade is not agreed? Do you think the Brussels gravy train should be sticking two fingers up to its members? What if it wasn’t the uk and another country leaving and you were employed by a business which sourced its products to that country? What would you be saying to the EU?

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