The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (33 Viewers)

[Astute]

I was reporting a fact, not giving you a lesson. People are talking about the stock market in the U.K. as if it is the only one doing well. The implication being that Brexit is great.

There is money being pumped in or has been. At the same time interest rates have been kept low. This has a positive effect on the stock markets and on demand.

Retail sales in Germany grew by 3% this year - the 8 th year in a row that there has been an increase.

The target for inflation is 2%. If it gets above that, the ECB will raise rates.

GSP is also around 2% which allows for wage to an extent rises without causing problems.

There is pressure to pay more than inflation especially in the cities where accomodation is very expensive.

I like how you always use Germany which benefits from a zero base rate and not the other countries that are suffering because of it. The ECB has an interest rate of -0.4%. So money is lost on what is deposited. The ECB (European Central Bank) is pumping in 60 billion a month. It has been going on for a bit now. And all to prop up the EU.

Germany can't do it alone. Raising the base rate would be a disaster for many EU countries. They are struggling as it is.

 

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[Astute]

Juncker is not standing again. The Eurozone needs a finance minister and a coordinated fiscal policy. Countries ubdercutting each other with tax rates is damaging economies and costing people money by higher taxes as a result of tax being paid in countries where it was not earnt.

And you know that isn't what the idea is. I have shown it you a few times. It is so the EU can take over the fiscal policies of EU countries when they want. It is nothing to do with tax dodges that Juncker is the master of.

 

[Astute]

Where have I defended Juncker‘s - alleged - tax fraud? I pointed out that we have been allowing the same thing in our dependencies and money laundering through property in London for years, and are now, along with Luxemburg and Malta trying to water down EU efforts against this sort of thing. No doubt you are raging about U.K., Isle of Man etc. involvement in tax havens. Or do you think it is just the EU and as soon as we are out everything will be rosy?

So people putting money into property is the same as Luxembourg getting rich by companies paying a small amount of tax to them and next to nothing everywhere else?

Our property tax rules have already changed. Companies now pay a high tax rate when buying properties.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why are you so desperate to peddle your pro EU rubbish?

Raw materials won't cost much more. WTO rules are.a 2% tariff. And that is if we can't make them here and don't get trade deals.

Look attractive? People want to buy things from the UK. We.have quality manufacturing.

And Tone.....you blame the Brexit vote for people having less disposable income. This has been happening for nearly 10 years. Half the story?

If things like metals, oil etc are traded worldwide in USD$ which they are when you convert what you spend in USD back to GBP it costs you more after the pound has crashed than it did before. That’s not peddling pro EU rubbish that’s maths. Sorry if that’s too complicated for you to understand. I’d be making the same point if the pound crashed for any reason, it hasn’t took on some magical twist because the pound crashing of the result of the referendum this is what happens when the pound crashes full stop. It’s economics in a very basic form. If you don’t understand that it’s probably best you don’t comment on it.

 

[Grendel]

You haven’t been following the news or our discussion.

Well yes I have. For a start the Netherlands is a worse offender than Luxembourg oh and individual sweatener tax deals in the EU states went up 50% last year - 3 of the top 10 tax havens in the world are EU countries and the uk isn’t one of them.

That news you mean?

 

[Astute]

Well yes I have. For a start the Netherlands is a worse offender than Luxembourg oh and individual sweatener tax deals in the EU states went up 50% last year - 3 of the top 10 tax havens in the world are EU countries and the uk isn’t one of them.

That news you mean?

And the Netherlands have already said that they are against tax changes that Juncker now says ge wants to change. They are against the vote where the majority is needed instead of a unanimous vote.

 

[Astute]

If things like metals, oil etc are traded worldwide in USD$ which they are when you convert what you spend in USD back to GBP it costs you more after the pound has crashed than it did before. That’s not peddling pro EU rubbish that’s maths. Sorry if that’s too complicated for you to understand. I’d be making the same point if the pound crashed for any reason, it hasn’t took on some magical twist because the pound crashing of the result of the referendum this is what happens when the pound crashes full stop. It’s economics in a very basic form. If you don’t understand that it’s probably best you don’t comment on it.

So what is your excuse for the £ Dollar change that has been going on for a lot longer than the Brexit vote?

 

[skybluetony176]

So what is your excuse for the £ Dollar change that has been going on for a lot longer than the Brexit vote?

So let me get this right. You’re in complete denial that the pound crashed the day after the referendum across the currency board not just the dollar and is yet to recover to anything near pre referendum levels?

 

[fernandopartridge]

So let me get this right. You’re in complete denial that the pound crashed the day after the referendum across the currency board not just the dollar and is yet to recover to anything near pre referendum levels?

The 'crash' is exaggerated a bit by currency speculation; in the period running up to the 23rd June itself the rate went from $1.42 on the 13th to $1.49 by the 23rd to the £1. It has hovered around $1.40 to $1.42 - $1.45 for all of 2016, so it's lost about 10% or so @ $1.31 today.

Though the £ has been on a downward trend against the dollar for 40 years or so, in the last 10 years the low interest rate is probably the main cause.

 

[skybluetony176]

The 'crash' is exaggerated a bit by currency speculation; in the period running up to the 23rd June itself the rate went from $1.42 on the 13th to $1.49 by the 23rd to the £1. It has hovered around $1.40 to $1.42 - $1.45 for all of 2016, so it's lost about 10% or so @ $1.31 today.

Though the £ has been on a downward trend against the dollar for 40 years or so, in the last 10 years the low interest rate is probably the main cause.

But there was still a crash which is the point I’m making. You’re also isolating the dollar. It happened across the board. Of the top of my head and without looking at the figures I would think that the picture is even uglier against the euro than it is the dollar although you would be correct in saying that world trade is more commonly done in USD especially commodities.

It would be interesting to see how the euro compared to the dollar over the same period.

 

[Astute]

So let me get this right. You’re in complete denial that the pound crashed the day after the referendum across the currency board not just the dollar and is yet to recover to anything near pre referendum levels?

You are in denial.

It is now about where it was in 2000 and 2008. In 2007 it was over 2 USD to the pound. Yes it goes up and down. But it has been on its way down sharply since the end of 2013.

 

[Astute]

But there was still a crash which is the point I’m making. You’re also isolating the dollar. It happened across the board. Of the top of my head and without looking at the figures I would think that the picture is even uglier against the euro than it is the dollar although you would be correct in saying that world trade is more commonly done in USD especially commodities.

It would be interesting to see how the euro compared to the dollar over the same period.

Isolating the Dollar? You only mentioned the Dollar. So wasn't it you isolating the Dollar?

 

[skybluetony176]

Isolating the Dollar? You only mentioned the Dollar. So wasn't it you isolating the Dollar?

You seriously lack attention to detail. No wonder you’re clueless. I said across the currency board.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The GBP hasn't "crashed".......it has simply undergone a long overdue market correction.......

The BofE, ECB & IMF all agreed that it was over-valued prior to the referendum......

 

[Astute]

You seriously lack attention to detail. No wonder you’re clueless. I said across the currency board.

Did you?

You have added the word 'currency' into that statement. And everything else was about the Dollar.

 

[fernandopartridge]

But there was still a crash which is the point I’m making. You’re also isolating the dollar. It happened across the board. Of the top of my head and without looking at the figures I would think that the picture is even uglier against the euro than it is the dollar although you would be correct in saying that world trade is more commonly done in USD especially commodities.

It would be interesting to see how the euro compared to the dollar over the same period.

If you're going to compare currency values it's probably best to do it against a relatively stable leading reserve currency. Of course if it loses value against the dollar it probably has against other currencies as well. The comparison with the € is broadly similar in any case.

 

[clint van damme]

You are in denial.

It is now about where it was in 2000 and 2008. In 2007 it was over 2 USD to the pound. Yes it goes up and down. But it has been on its way down sharply since the end of 2013.

got that before a trip to New York, lived like a king while I was there, what a time to be alive!

 

[martcov]

Well yes I have. For a start the Netherlands is a worse offender than Luxembourg oh and individual sweatener tax deals in the EU states went up 50% last year - 3 of the top 10 tax havens in the world are EU countries and the uk isn’t one of them.

That news you mean?

Recently as 2015:
Labour MP David Lammy, who met Mr Saviano last week, said the UK needed to take “very seriously” his claims about its financial services’ role in the international drugs trade. Mr Lammy, who is seeking to become Mayor of London in 2016, said: “We are rightly proud of our financial services industry in this country, but we cannot afford to be complacent.

“I am particularly concerned that London’s inflated property prices are fuelled by dirty money and I will do everything in my power as mayor to ensure that money laundering and tax evasion are rooted out by the authorities

 

[martcov]

Well yes I have. For a start the Netherlands is a worse offender than Luxembourg oh and individual sweatener tax deals in the EU states went up 50% last year - 3 of the top 10 tax havens in the world are EU countries and the uk isn’t one of them.

That news you mean?

No ..

London is now the global money-laundering centre for the drug trade, says crime expert
Gomorrah author Roberto Saviano says 'the British treat it as not their problem'

• James Hanning, David Connett
• Saturday 4 July 2015

 

[Kingokings204]

So let me get this right. You’re in complete denial that the pound crashed the day after the referendum across the currency board not just the dollar and is yet to recover to anything near pre referendum levels?

Do you understand why the pound dropped the day after the referendum?

 

[Grendel]

Recently as 2015:
Labour MP David Lammy, who met Mr Saviano last week, said the UK needed to take “very seriously” his claims about its financial services’ role in the international drugs trade. Mr Lammy, who is seeking to become Mayor of London in 2016, said: “We are rightly proud of our financial services industry in this country, but we cannot afford to be complacent.

“I am particularly concerned that London’s inflated property prices are fuelled by dirty money and I will do everything in my power as mayor to ensure that money laundering and tax evasion are rooted out by the authorities

Christ you are quoting David Lammy a complete crank and ignoring every point I’ve made.

 

[Grendel]

No ..

London is now the global money-laundering centre for the drug trade, says crime expert
Gomorrah author Roberto Saviano says 'the British treat it as not their problem'

• James Hanning, David Connett
• Saturday 4 July 2015

Are you pissed in your own pub yuu buffoon?

 

[Sick Boy]

Are you pissed in your own pub yuu buffoon?

Deflect way from the point made by being insulting, classy.

 

[martcov]

Christ you are quoting David Lammy a complete crank and ignoring every point I’ve made.

Ok, try this:

The UK is the most important player in tax havens

The Tax Justice Network’s new Financial Secrecy Index shows global financial secrecy remains alive and well.

In November, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published the biggest ever survey of global financial secrecy. An estimated $21 to $32 trillion of private financial wealth is located, untaxed or lightly taxed, in ‘secrecy jurisdictions’ (or tax havens) around the world.

Since the 1970s African countries alone are estimated to have lost over $1 trillion in capital flight, dwarfing their current external debts of ‘just’ $190 billion and making Africa a major net creditor to the world. But those assets are in the hands of a few wealthy people, protected by offshore secrecy, while the debts are shouldered by African populations. Compare that $1 trillion in capital flight with the $130 billion or so in global foreign aid.

So for every dollar of aid provided by OECD countries to developing nations, ten dollars or so flow back, under the table, towards OECD nations and their offshore satellites. Yet rich countries suffer too: in the recent global financial crisis, European countries like Greece, Italy and Portugal have been brought to their knees by decades of secrecy and tax evasion.





UK at the center

The Financial Secrecy Index shows that the United Kingdom is the most important global player in the financial secrecy world. While the UK itself ranks only in 21st place, it supports and partly controls a web of secrecy jurisdictions around the world, from the Cayman Islands and Bermuda to Jersey and Gibraltar. Had the entire British network been aggregated it would easily top the index, far above Switzerland.

David Cameron recently told the House of Commons: “I do not think it is fair any longer to refer to any of the Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies as tax havens. They have taken action to ensure that they have fair and open tax systems.”

TJN’s research shows how baseless that claim is. While the British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands and some other British jurisdictions have recently curbed some secrecy offerings, others have expanded theirs. TJN assessed the territories across fifteen ‘secrecy indicators’ such as banking secrecy, publicly available company ownership, promotion of tax evasion and anti-money laundering. The table below shows the worst offenders.

 

[Grendel]

Ok, try this:

The UK is the most important player in tax havens

The Tax Justice Network’s new Financial Secrecy Index shows global financial secrecy remains alive and well.

In November, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published the biggest ever survey of global financial secrecy. An estimated $21 to $32 trillion of private financial wealth is located, untaxed or lightly taxed, in ‘secrecy jurisdictions’ (or tax havens) around the world.

Since the 1970s African countries alone are estimated to have lost over $1 trillion in capital flight, dwarfing their current external debts of ‘just’ $190 billion and making Africa a major net creditor to the world. But those assets are in the hands of a few wealthy people, protected by offshore secrecy, while the debts are shouldered by African populations. Compare that $1 trillion in capital flight with the $130 billion or so in global foreign aid.

So for every dollar of aid provided by OECD countries to developing nations, ten dollars or so flow back, under the table, towards OECD nations and their offshore satellites. Yet rich countries suffer too: in the recent global financial crisis, European countries like Greece, Italy and Portugal have been brought to their knees by decades of secrecy and tax evasion.





UK at the center

The Financial Secrecy Index shows that the United Kingdom is the most important global player in the financial secrecy world. While the UK itself ranks only in 21st place, it supports and partly controls a web of secrecy jurisdictions around the world, from the Cayman Islands and Bermuda to Jersey and Gibraltar. Had the entire British network been aggregated it would easily top the index, far above Switzerland.

David Cameron recently told the House of Commons: “I do not think it is fair any longer to refer to any of the Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies as tax havens. They have taken action to ensure that they have fair and open tax systems.”

TJN’s research shows how baseless that claim is. While the British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands and some other British jurisdictions have recently curbed some secrecy offerings, others have expanded theirs. TJN assessed the territories across fifteen ‘secrecy indicators’ such as banking secrecy, publicly available company ownership, promotion of tax evasion and anti-money laundering. The table below shows the worst offenders.

That’s strange - better tell your Euro Chums;

Oxfam: Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands among worst tax havens

Bermuda? Guess again. Turns out Holland is the tax haven of choice for US companies

 

[Grendel]

What I really would like Martcov to answer is his view that the Eu is supposedly committed to eliminating tax havens but it’s own members who need to agree to do this have - according to the Eu itself - increased company sweetener deals by 50% in a year and one country in particular - the Netherlands - is the biggest exponent of this.

So rather than try and post irrelevant links answer this - how will this happen when key member states are at it and it’s growing and growing?

 

[Sick Boy]

Christ you are quoting David Lammy a complete crank and ignoring every point I’ve made.

You certainly have a high opinion of yourself. I'm sure Lammy is much more well and wildly respected than you are.

 

[Astute]

Ok, try this:

The UK is the most important player in tax havens

The Tax Justice Network’s new Financial Secrecy Index shows global financial secrecy remains alive and well.

In November, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published the biggest ever survey of global financial secrecy. An estimated $21 to $32 trillion of private financial wealth is located, untaxed or lightly taxed, in ‘secrecy jurisdictions’ (or tax havens) around the world.

Since the 1970s African countries alone are estimated to have lost over $1 trillion in capital flight, dwarfing their current external debts of ‘just’ $190 billion and making Africa a major net creditor to the world. But those assets are in the hands of a few wealthy people, protected by offshore secrecy, while the debts are shouldered by African populations. Compare that $1 trillion in capital flight with the $130 billion or so in global foreign aid.

So for every dollar of aid provided by OECD countries to developing nations, ten dollars or so flow back, under the table, towards OECD nations and their offshore satellites. Yet rich countries suffer too: in the recent global financial crisis, European countries like Greece, Italy and Portugal have been brought to their knees by decades of secrecy and tax evasion.





UK at the center

The Financial Secrecy Index shows that the United Kingdom is the most important global player in the financial secrecy world. While the UK itself ranks only in 21st place, it supports and partly controls a web of secrecy jurisdictions around the world, from the Cayman Islands and Bermuda to Jersey and Gibraltar. Had the entire British network been aggregated it would easily top the index, far above Switzerland.

David Cameron recently told the House of Commons: “I do not think it is fair any longer to refer to any of the Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies as tax havens. They have taken action to ensure that they have fair and open tax systems.”

TJN’s research shows how baseless that claim is. While the British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands and some other British jurisdictions have recently curbed some secrecy offerings, others have expanded theirs. TJN assessed the territories across fifteen ‘secrecy indicators’ such as banking secrecy, publicly available company ownership, promotion of tax evasion and anti-money laundering. The table below shows the worst offenders.

Before we get too deep into your copy and paste do you actually know much about international monetary policies and how international banking happens? Don't want to try and have a debate with you if you don't have a clue.

 

[Sick Boy]

Before we get too deep into your copy and paste do you actually know much about international monetary policies and how international banking happens? Don't want to try and have a debate with you if you don't have a clue.

It's amazing how many people on forums have numerous skillsets.

 

[Astute]

It's amazing how many people on forums have numerous skillsets.

To me it is amazing how many on this thread think they know everything and they have the same old faces agreeing with them....even when they are talking total bollocks.

I have been.an investor for many years. I still have some non UK shares I bought over 20 years ago. I have done my due diligence over the years. I know how the system works. I understand why we are an international investment hub. This us why London is so rich......in places.

Yet I get some on here like yourself who makes comments that I know are nowhere near the truth. But with anything monetary, especially fiscal policies, you have a decent sized tolerance. So it is hard.to point out where you are wrong when it isn't easy to say how far you are wrong....if you get what I mean :smuggrin:

 

[Sick Boy]

To me it is amazing how many on this thread think they know everything and they have the same old faces agreeing with them....even when they are talking total bollocks.

I have been.an investor for many years. I still have some non UK shares I bought over 20 years ago. I have done my due diligence over the years. I know how the system works. I understand why we are an international investment hub. This us why London is so rich......in places.

Yet I get some on here like yourself who makes comments that I know are nowhere near the truth. But with anything monetary, especially fiscal policies, you have a decent sized tolerance. So it is hard.to point out where you are wrong when it isn't easy to say how far you are wrong....if you get what I mean :smuggrin:

Can you let me know which comments of mine are not 'the truth'? Never been one for monetary discussions myself, apart from the 350m a week promise, of course. Hence why I haven't joined in the debate until the sneering and insults resumed as usual.

 

[Astute]

Can you let me know which comments of mine are not 'the truth'? Never been one for monetary discussions myself, apart from the 350m a week promise, of course. Hence why I haven't joined in the debate until the sneering and insults resumed as usual.

You have admitted to being very biased. You have come out with comments shown to be false information. But you still bring them up again in the future. You seem to think that we should only debate one side of what is going on.

 

[Sick Boy]

You have admitted to being very biased. You have come out with comments shown to be false information. But you still bring them up again in the future. You seem to think that we should only debate one side of what is going on.

What false information was this that I repeatedly brought up?

I'm a proud EU citizen thanks and will remain so. I'm also happy that it will get passed onto any futute children i may have. Not sure what your problem is with that?

 

[Astute]

What false information was this that I repeatability brought up?

I'm a proud EU citizen thanks and will remain so. I'm also happy that it will get passed onto any futute children i may have. Not sure what your problem is with that?

Hardly any UK citizens go to Spain as you was the only one in your hotel in Lanzarote. Yet over a quarter of their tourists come from the UK.

That is twisting the truth whichever way you put it. Tourism from the UK was worth 12.7 billion last year to them. They have an unemployment rate of over 17%. What would it go up to if the EU made things difficult for us? And Spain isn't the only EU country that depends on us for tourism.

 

[Astute]

Can you let me know which comments of mine are not 'the truth'? Never been one for monetary discussions myself, apart from the 350m a week promise, of course. Hence why I haven't joined in the debate until the sneering and insults resumed as usual.

You have always been a part of this debate for as long as I have. And you only come out with the parts that to you look bad for the UK and good for the EU.