The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Research will always happen here. It is something we are very good at. But we continue to lose jobs to the EU in manufacturing where wages are much lower and business rates are lower. Yet some say they should go up to raise more tax.

Future of GSK in Ulverston in doubt as firm scraps plans for new £350m plant | The Mail

which is why we need to invest in training to upskill, (is that a word), the workforce but at a time when the purse strings are tight where would the money come from?
It would also be a medium to long term payback so the benefits wouldn't be instantly recognisable.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
which is why we need to invest in training to upskill, (is that a word), the workforce but at a time when the purse strings are tight where would the money come from?
It would also be a medium to long term payback so the benefits wouldn't be instantly recognisable.
We already have the skills for research. That is why so much research is done here already.

Even the Germans do motorsport research here

Britain’s Motorsport Valley – the home of Formula 1
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Isn't it amazing how numbers can be fiddled.

Isn't it amazing how we are supposed to have the smallest growth in the EU but we are doing the second best when needed.

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Germany's poor hold key to election as inequality grows

From the country doing the best in the EU. 1 in 6 lives in poverty. Tax rules make the rich richer and the poor poorer. 40% of Germans don't have any savings. Worse than countries like Hungary and Cyprus. Poverty has gone up in the last year in 11 of the 16 states. Nearly 50% of single parent families live in poverty. Yet we hear the excuses on why the top parties in Germany have lost millions of votes.

Some on here say we should help the poor countries of the EU. I say charity begins at home. Yes do help others. But not at the expense of your own people. French farmers became rich because of the EU. That is how Maggie got our rebate that we still have now. Billions each year goes missing in Italy and has dine for years. What has been dine about it? Yet the countries pumping billions in each year to this have their own poverty that is kept hidden. Look at the Tories. They try to make out that it doesn't exist.

Depends how you class poverty. If you take it as earning so much % below average wage, then there will always be poverty because when average wage grows, then the definition of poverty grows with it.

Average wages are outpacing inflation in Germany.

As with everything else on here there are vast regional differences and there are differences between city and countryside. Plus it is more expensive to live in a big city and so you could earn good money, but be poorer than someone who earns less elsewhere.

People don’t live on credit so much in Germany. The difference between cash and card payments is totally different to the UK.

I went to the UK recently and did not spend a penny in cash. For example, contactless is new in Germany and only works over credit cards ( supposed to include girocards as from now ) which most don’t have. My card transactions in my pub are about 8%. In my clothing shop it was more, but cash was still the preferred payment method. The limit for contactless is only 25€ here.

Germans rent more than buy, which is why they don’t have reserves such as the equity in their house.

Yes, it is easier for the rich to get richer than to get rich by working hard. That is not just a German or EU thing.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to know what percentage in the UK have savings and the difference between Germany and UK when it comes to credit cards. I know in Italy that hardly anyone gets anything on credit and they have thousands piled up in bank accounts. Much less consumeristic than here!

Most people don’t have credit cards in Germany and prefer paying by cash. The taxman hates that and is having a war on cash businesses. 500,00€ notes are being phased out next year to make large payments a bit more complicated.

My German credit cards are in fact charge cards and get cleared monthly- this is normal here. I don’t know anyone who has what we call a credit card whereby you can leave it in minus.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Most people don’t have credit cards in Germany and prefer paying by cash. The taxman hates that and is having a war on cash businesses. 500,00€ notes are being phased out next year to make large payments a bit more complicated.

My German credit cards are in fact charge cards and get cleared monthly- this is normal here. I don’t know anyone who has what we call a credit card whereby you can leave it in minus.

Given the level of mortgage borrowing is much lower in Germany why is household debt still pushing 60% of GDP - given the GDP is very high in Germany?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Research will always happen here. It is something we are very good at. But we continue to lose jobs to the EU in manufacturing where wages are much lower and business rates are lower. Yet some say they should go up to raise more tax.

Future of GSK in Ulverston in doubt as firm scraps plans for new £350m plant | The Mail

I don’t know if it is just wages being lower because that is regional. It could be depending upon what you are manufacturing and the amount of skilled labour needed.

Some say that taxation should be fairer and operate within given bands. This would stop other countries undercutting the UK by offering tax free incentives, or by allowing the UK to do the same. Others on here are against tax level fairness.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Supposedly with the six original Common Market member states.



Am I indeed? I assume you never watched financial shows such as The Money Programme or the televised debates of the period and professor James Bellini's famous comment that "The Common Market is not a clinic you take your financial problems to to have them fixed".

No. I didn’t. There wasn’t the same coverage of things those days and there was no internet where you could be influenced one way or the other.

I never heard that angle and didn’t vote because of the UK financial position. I voted for more jobs, more exports and a future in Europe. I am happy with the way things have turned out. I don’t regret voting for a future in Europe in the slightest and have in fact made my life in Europe.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Given the level of mortgage borrowing is much lower in Germany why is household debt still pushing 60% of GDP - given the GDP is very high in Germany?
I can smell the reply before it happens.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Neither am I. I am saying that membership of the EU has failed to stop Britain from falling behind other nations despite claims at the time of joining that it would.

I thought we we were in the top six in the world at the time of the referendum.

If only CCFC could have performed as well as the UK in the EU during the last 44 years...

But you count that as failure?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
The trade was all one way. Britain was happy to buy goods made in the EU whereas EU countries were very reluctant to buy goods made in the UK. That resulted in the UK now having a trade deficit of £80billion a year with the EU in manufactured goods.
Factories which one made goods in the UK such as Peugeot, Cadbury's and HP Sauce have been
and production moved to EU countries.

The products we produced were old fashioned and unreliable. Not only did people in the EU prefer modern cheaper products, but also in other markets. The Japanese took our place in motor cars and motorcycles in addition to the Germans. Our productivity- measured in man hours to produce cars - was far inferior to that of our competitors in Europe and Japan. We couldn’t adapt because of bad management and the unions.

Don’t blame the consumers. We screwed ourselves at that time and we are doing it again. We went through pain to adjust to the competition. We make billions through our finance industry based in London. We are a world leader there. Now we are going to the same to the City by leaving as we did by to the car industry by joining. We will adjust again, but when?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
I doubt if anyone who once worked in the manufacturing sector would agree.

They interviewed people on TV at time of the collapse of the car industry in Coventry. They interviewed my neighbour who blamed the unions. They interviewed a shop steward who blamed the management for giving in to union demands too easily. My father lost his job and blamed the unions. No one blamed the customers.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
So jobs in manufacturing rose after membership then did they?

No. Never said they did. Making it up again.

I don't know anyone who wanted to be part of any 'project', least of all a fully integrated EU superstate with no national boundaries. The referendum was held solely on the basis of whether voters approved of the new terms of membership as negotiated by Harold Wilson's government.

You didn’t know me or my friends. I voted for Europe.

Britain had outdated manufacturing industries and modern efficient agriculture whereas the six common market founding countries all had modern manufacturing industries and inefficient farmers. The two sets of national interests were totally incompatible with each other and still are.

The national interests are the same for everyone. A stable, prosperous, peaceful Europe.

Agriculture in France way different to agriculture in Holland as an example. You just made it up that all agriculture in the common market was not as efficient as in the UK. Food, especially meat, was cheaper in the UK.


So 'successful' that Juncker was able to reject every demand for EU reform made by David Cameron without even batting an eyelid.

I don’t believe he did reject every demand. I think that is made up.

You are trying to measure success by stopping free movement. One of the main principles of the EU.


It looks to me that it's the EU which is moving into unknown territory and throwing away everything it has built up.

No. The EU is in a better position to reform because of Brexit.

That's a pretty good description of the people running the EU in my experience.

No. It is an accurate description of the people leading the UK into the unknown.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
I can smell the reply before it happens.

Just read an article that says people are buying things more in pump rather than saving as interest rates are low and interest on savings is virtually nil. The tendency to buy on pump is growing. This is not through creditcards, but through cheap bank loans. I have been offered another loan against property at 1,18% over 10 years. Over 100000, so I will sign up for it this week. Inflation is between 1,5 and 2.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Just read an article that says people are buying things more in pump rather than saving as interest rates are low and interest on savings is virtually nil. The tendency to buy on pump is growing. This is not through creditcards, but through cheap bank loans. I have been offered another loan against property at 1,18% over 10 years. Over 100000, so I will sign up for it this week. Inflation is between 1,5 and 2.

Still far worse a problem in many other Eu countries than the uk.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
bit of good news at last:

Pharma deals 'show confidence' in strategy

doesn't quite compensate for all the negative stuff of last week but it's something.

For future reference, when I'm asking Brexiteers for examples of reasons to be positive this is the sort of thing I'm on about not rhetoric and bluster like they need us more than we need them or Spain needs tourists!!
Actual, real good economic news. Hopefully more will follow these two in and not the EBA and EMA out though I'm still sceptical and concerned at the moment.

You just about scraped a like for that, it was in doubt due to your jibe about me saying Spain needs our tourism!

That wasn't fake news Clint ;)
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
No. I didn’t. There wasn’t the same coverage of things those days and there was no internet where you could be influenced one way or the other.

I never heard that angle and didn’t vote because of the UK financial position. I voted for more jobs, more exports and a future in Europe. I am happy with the way things have turned out. I don’t regret voting for a future in Europe in the slightest and have in fact made my life in Europe.

This was in 1972, there was no popular vote. Ted Heath signed up without any referendum.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Yes, but when there was a referendum it was 67% remain. The people spoke.

The losers never got over it and campaigned until they got a narrow 52/48 vote in an advisory referendum. This is apparently written in stone as a massive leave vote and we have to get over it.

No.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I am interested who ‚they‘ are. Not in your vague statement.

Switzerland, Denmark, Netherlands and Norway and Sweden and Portugal are about the same as us
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Switzerland, Denmark, Netherlands and Norway and Sweden and Portugal are about the same as us
Luxembourg is richer than us although I can't work out where the money came from.......
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
1 in 6 votes went to the racist lot. But it was insignificant if you believe a certain person on here.

Well it was 1 in 8. it was significant in that it was the highest vote for a party of the extreme right since the war.

Luckily 87,5% voted for non extremist parties and no one will touch them in the Parliament. The AfD are even complaining that no one wants to have anything to do with them.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Absolutely, it did.

Yes, because people were led to believe millions of refugees were coming to the UK as a result. A lie backed up by some turd standing in front of a massive nazi style Poster of Syrian refugees crossing into Croatia.

They were told that Merkel was ruling the EU from Brussels and the UK would end up having to take millions of non EU refugees.

It never happened. Merkel received little support from the other EU countries as regards sharing the responsibility under the Geneva Convention in the absence of an EU refugee policy, other than the basic Dublin agreement. Which sort of confirms that Merkel doesn’t control the EU and that we have control over our borders - despite what some say on here.

But still people believed the poster and what the turd said.
 

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