The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (300 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

QUOTE="Kingokings204, post: 1434211, member: 6184"]I am. I just wouldn’t of been as weak and paid way over the odds. That’s life though.[/QUOTE]

but if it started to dawn on you that a no deal could cost the country significantly more than maybe you would.

 

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[dutchman]

"No deal" is still a possibility, I would say a probability. If the UK gets any kind of 'deal' then every other country in the EU will demand one as well.

 

[Sick Boy]

My thoughts are it was a campaign of fear because the same tactics worked on the Scottish referendum. But just about everyone knew what they were voting for then. The EU one was different. A lot of people didn't have a clue. Many didn't know the consequences of leaving or how the EU is run. It was all about fear and not giving the electorate knowledge.

Even with everything I know I can't say what is best. We won't know until the negotiations are over.

The best thing so far is that Ukip are finished. There is no need for them at all now. We can get back to the normal political bullshit. But around the EU they still have the same problem to deal with.

Both campaigns incorporated tactics of fear but leave was a more positive campaign; this also worked for Corbyn in the recent GE, I think.

When you have a lot of leavers saying we could be like Switzerland and Norway and that no one was talking about threatening our place in the single market, you have to wonder if people really did realise. You also had some politicians going on about doing trade deals with individual EU countries, which obviously has never been a possibility.

Part of me thinks they were deliberately being misleading, but part of me thinks they didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Not sure which one is worse.

 

[Sick Boy]

"No deal" is still a possibility, I would say a probability. If the UK gets any kind of 'deal' then every other country in the EU will demand one as well.

The Irish question could be what grinds the whole thing to a halt. To avoid a hard border, I think NI will have to remain in the single market.

A deal is a possibility, but it isn't going to be in our favour, and as we've already seen, Fox's claim that they'd be the easiest negotiations in the country's history were utter rubbish.

 

[Astute]

The Irish question could be what grinds the whole thing to a halt. To avoid a hard border, I think NI will have to remain in the single market.

A deal is a possibility, but it isn't going to be in our favour, and as we've already seen, Fox's claim that they'd be the easiest negotiations in the country's history were utter rubbish.

We don't know what sort of deal there will be. The EU wants to make deals around the world. We will be a part of this. A deal with us will be the easiest to make. If they can't make a deal with us there is no hope elsewhere unless it is done through spite or as punishment for leaving.

The best thing for Ireland is a deal. Nobody in their right mind would want anything but to keep things as close to what they are now as we can get.

 

[Sick Boy]

We don't know what sort of deal there will be. The EU wants to make deals around the world. We will be a part of this. A deal with us will be the easiest to make. If they can't make a deal with us there is no hope elsewhere unless it is done through spite or as punishment for leaving.

The best thing for Ireland is a deal. Nobody in their right mind would want anything but to keep things as close to what they are now as we can get.

It will certainly be easy for the EU but not for the UK, and it will most certainly not be anything like we have now. A major concern of mine is that when we do leave the EU, negotiations are going to be like what we have now, basically a series of demands that the UK has to make concessions for. We've already seen the USA telling us what we're going to have to accept to get a deal.

I agree, which is why I think NI will end up staying in the CU and SM. Otherwise a border will be put in place, especially if the UK starts importing mouth watering hormone injected beef.

 

[martcov]

Your mate Nigel said clearly before the vote, Irish border carries on as normal. All EU citizens rights to be guaranteed.

All these things are easy solutions unless some people make it seem impossible of course. In truth it’s quite simple. Would you believe there was even a world before we joined the EU. Incredible isn’t it. Yes the fruit still got picked and airplanes still flew and the Irish had their two countries also. How did we ever cope?

We had no where near so much soft fruit as now. Flights were much more expensive and there were much less flights to choose from. The Irish were fighting a low key civil war.

Do you want us to go back to the living standards of the 60s?

 

[martcov]

We don't know what sort of deal there will be. The EU wants to make deals around the world. We will be a part of this. A deal with us will be the easiest to make. If they can't make a deal with us there is no hope elsewhere unless it is done through spite or as punishment for leaving.

The best thing for Ireland is a deal. Nobody in their right mind would want anything but to keep things as close to what they are now as we can get.

A deal with us is complicated. Firstly because we already have one and have to disentangle from that. Secondly because we are divided on what we want.

The Irish border is our problem. We have to solve it. The DUP, a minority on the island of Ireland, doesn’t want an easy solution- the sea border. The DUP is shoring up our wobbly disunited government. Unless May sinks the DUP and herself, there won’t be an easy solution.

 

[Kingokings204]

Apropos fucking prick.. look at the present mess. We were the sick man of Europe at one time, but became a successful country again in the EU. Yes, you voted for leave and now we are a joke again. That makes you one of the guilty ones if this continues to go pear shape.

We have a representative parliamentary system which should debate these things and then decide on behalf of voters. If they get it wrong, they are fucking pricks - if you have got it wrong, then you and the rest of the 17,4 million are fucking pricks. You carry the can for this. It comes with the responsibility of decision making.

You really are a nasty piece of work. How dare I use my vote to have the temerity to go against what you say. I know you don’t like democracy but don’t make it so obvious.

 

[Kingokings204]

A deal with us is complicated. Firstly because we already have one and have to disentangle from that. Secondly because we are divided on what we want.

The Irish border is our problem. We have to solve it. The DUP, a minority on the island of Ireland, doesn’t want an easy solution- the sea border. The DUP is shoring up our wobbly disunited government. Unless May sinks the DUP and herself, there won’t be an easy solution.

The solution is easy. Keep it as it is. Free trade deal that currently exists is obviously the way forward. It’s really not that impossible.

 

[Kingokings204]

We had no where near so much soft fruit as now. Flights were much more expensive and there were much less flights to choose from. The Irish were fighting a low key civil war.

Do you want us to go back to the living standards of the 60s?

No of course not so if we hadn’t joined the EU everything would of stayed in the 60s according to you. It’s desperate stuff at its kindest.

 

[Grendel]

Good to see that a deal over the financial obligations has been reached. Yet again the UK hasn't been able to call the shots like we were led to believe. Next will be NI remaining in the Single Market.

The EU wanted £100 billion. If anything it proves the EU can’t call the shots. It’s payable over several decades so the net incomings each year will substantially increase.

Free trade will be round the corner now.

 

[Sick Boy]

The EU wanted £100 billion. If anything it proves the EU can’t call the shots. It’s payable over several decades so the net incomings each year will substantially increase.

Free trade will be round the corner now.

You'd give Alistair Campbell a run for his money. If you think the UK is about to get the equivalent to what it has now with regards to free trade, you're seriously deluded.

I've never seen them demand anything in £ either and certainly not £100bn.

 

[Grendel]

You'd give Alistair Campbell a run for his money. If you think the UK is about to get the equivalent to what it has now with regards to free trade, you're seriously deluded.

I've never seen them demand anything in £ either and certainly not £100bn.

It was 100 billion euros and pretty widely reported.

Brexit 'divorce bill' could go up to €100bn after fresh demands from EU member states

Face it your hatred for the uk is clouding your judgement. It was said on Five live this morning that it was the bare minimum the Europeans would consider and well below the 100 billion they we’re demanding.

You’d hate Britain to come out well wouldn’t you?

 

[skybluetony176]

The solution is easy. Keep it as it is. Free trade deal that currently exists is obviously the way forward. It’s really not that impossible.

A two tier brexit? I thought out means out?

Suits me as I have family in the north and on the border who need free movement for their livelihoods.

I just don’t think that’s what people voted for and people know what they voted for.

 

[skybluetony176]

It was 100 billion euros and pretty widely reported.

Brexit 'divorce bill' could go up to €100bn after fresh demands from EU member states

Face it your hatred for the uk is clouding your judgement. It was said on Five live this morning that it was the bare minimum the Europeans would consider and well below the 100 billion they we’re demanding.

You’d hate Britain to come out well wouldn’t you?

It’s a €100b not £100b so less than your trying to make out. It was also the gross figure, the net figure would be less as the rebate would have to be considered, it also states in the article that you link that it was an opening offer, ie it’s a starting point of negotiations. The amount was always going to go down. Davis was suggesting in March that it won’t be tens of billions in fact it could be nothing. From the same source you linked. You tell me who’s moved most. No one is calling all the shots but what is clear is that one side is calling more than the other.

Brexit divorce bill will be ‘nothing like’ tens of billions of pounds, David Davis says

 

[Sick Boy]

It was 100 billion euros and pretty widely reported.

Brexit 'divorce bill' could go up to €100bn after fresh demands from EU member states

Face it your hatred for the uk is clouding your judgement. It was said on Five live this morning that it was the bare minimum the Europeans would consider and well below the 100 billion they we’re demanding.

You’d hate Britain to come out well wouldn’t you?

Haha you're not even worth debating with if you're going down that route.

 

[Astute]

A two tier brexit? I fought out means out?

Suits me as I have family in the north and on the border who need free movement for their livelihoods.

I just don’t think that’s what people voted for and people know what they voted for.

Did everyone vote leave for the same reason?

Of course they didn't.

Some wanted more control on who comes into the UK.

Some have had enough of the money we give to the EU each year.

Some have had enough of the homeless situation.

Some have had enough of the NHS not being able to cope.

Some have had enough of the interference from Juncker and his gravytrainers.

Some have had enough of all of these.

And now they have had enough of the moaning because nearly 2 million more voted out than in but can't handle the result.

 

[skybluetony176]

It was 100 billion euros and pretty widely reported.

Brexit 'divorce bill' could go up to €100bn after fresh demands from EU member states

Face it your hatred for the uk is clouding your judgement. It was said on Five live this morning that it was the bare minimum the Europeans would consider and well below the 100 billion they we’re demanding.

You’d hate Britain to come out well wouldn’t you?

In fact if you take the gross figure suggested in the article you link £84b and then deduct the rebate as the article suggests that puts the nett figure that the EU were looking for in the region of £40b - £50b by my calculations. I’m struggling to see here we’re the EU have compromised at all. You’re proclamation that the EU can’t call all the shots looks premature to naive when you work through the evidence that you yourself provided.

 

[Astute]

It’s a €100b not £100b so less than your trying to make out. It was also the gross figure, the net figure would be less as the rebate would have to be considered, it also states in the article that you link that it was an opening offer, ie it’s a starting point of negotiations. The amount was always going to go down. Davis was suggesting in March that it won’t be tens of billions in fact it could be nothing. From the same source you linked. You tell me who’s moved most. No one is calling all the shots but what is clear is that one side is calling more than the other.

Brexit divorce bill will be ‘nothing like’ tens of billions of pounds, David Davis says

Have you not been listening to Barnier? He says the rebate has gone. He says we have to pay for 14% of running the EU and not the 12.5% it is with the rebate.

 

[martcov]

Have you not been listening to Barnier? He says the rebate has gone. He says we have to pay for 14% of running the EU and not the 12.5% it is with the rebate.

Yes because we are no longer full member from 2019. our decision.

 

[martcov]

No of course not so if we hadn’t joined the EU everything would of stayed in the 60s according to you. It’s desperate stuff at its kindest.

No. You are the one claiming that everything was Honky Dory as regards we had everything in the 60s, and not noticing the increase in soft fruits or flights. Desperate stuff indeed.

 

[Grendel]

Haha you're not even worth debating with if you're going down that route.

You said you’d never heard of £100 billion. I can see six articles on google - do you now accept this was their going in position?

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you not been listening to Barnier? He says the rebate has gone. He says we have to pay for 14% of running the EU and not the 12.5% it is with the rebate.

I’m just going by the evidence that Grendull supplied to back up his theory that the EU aren’t calling the shots. He either needs to supply some new evidence to back himself up in or admit he’s got it wrong. Because at the moment that’s all he’s done. Prove himself wrong.

 

[Sick Boy]

You said you’d never heard of £100 billion. I can see six articles on google - do you now accept this was their going in position?

I've also seen multiple articles claiming different figures. None of them are in £ either. You're claim that I hate Britain is utterly ridiculous as well, considering you've condemned the oaf Farage in the past, I'm surprised you're resorting down to his level.

 

[martcov]

The solution is easy. Keep it as it is. Free trade deal that currently exists is obviously the way forward. It’s really not that impossible.

You voted for border controls. As it is there are none in Ireland. What do you want? Border controls or no border controls?

 

[Astute]

You said you’d never heard of £100 billion. I can see six articles on google - do you now accept this was their going in position?

He only acknowledges good things about the EU and tries to twist everything else.

 

[skybluetony176]

You said you’d never heard of £100 billion. I can see six articles on google - do you now accept this was their going in position?

That’s because it was €100b not pounds. Although you have flip flopped on that yourself over your last half a dozen posts. You seem confused.

 

[Sick Boy]

He only acknowledges good things about the EU and tries to twist everything else.

Unlike you who twists everything into something to attack the EU, while bizarrely claiming to be neutral in the whole debate. I guess you can never be wrong up their on the fence though.

 

[martcov]

You really are a nasty piece of work. How dare I use my vote to have the temerity to go against what you say. I know you don’t like democracy but don’t make it so obvious.

You don’t get democracy do you? Just because you voted doesn’t mean you cannot be criticised. That is a dictator attitude. I think you should read up on democracy and democratic responsibility.

 

[Astute]

I’m just going by the evidence that Grendull supplied to back up his theory that the EU aren’t calling the shots. He either needs to supply some new evidence to back himself up in r admit he’s got it wrong. Because at the moment that’s all he’s done. Prove himself wrong.

But what I am saying is right.

 

[Astute]

Unlike you who twists everything into something to attack the EU, while bizarrely claiming to be neutral in the whole debate. I guess you can never be wrong up their on the fence though.

Here we go again.

So when I have a go at the leavers I am doing the same?

No. You just don't like the parts where I have a go at the EU. And you ignore the rest.

 

[martcov]

Did everyone vote leave for the same reason?

Of course they didn't.

Some wanted more control on who comes into the UK.

Some have had enough of the money we give to the EU each year.

Some have had enough of the homeless situation.

Some have had enough of the NHS not being able to cope.

Some have had enough of the interference from Juncker and his gravytrainers.

Some have had enough of all of these.

And now they have had enough of the moaning because nearly 2 million more voted out than in but can't handle the result.

In other words no one had a clue about the „whole“ of what they were voting for and now cannot handle being criticised for the current mess.

If you make a major decision and it looks like going pear shaped, you have to take the responsibility. If it was going well, you would take the glory of having made the right decision. Until things start looking better you will be criticised.

You may be right in the end, but for now you are going to be called out for the decision.

It’s democracy, get over it,

 

[martcov]

Here we go again.

So when I have a go at the leavers I am doing the same?

No. You just don't like the parts where I have a go at the EU. And you ignore the rest.

Let’s see you having a go at leavers about creating a border in Ireland.

 

[martcov]

But what I am saying is right.

That’s what you always say.