We haven’t got a free trade deal. We won’t get as a good a deal as we have st the moment. That is a fact. Plus the UK won’t allow free movement of EU citizens. What if, say, Poles and Estonians walk across the border? How will you control that? And the millions of Muslim refugees forced on to ROI by Merkel?
Yes that’s correct but you have a free trade deal and nothing changes? What’s the mess? Nothing would change from what it is now. You’re making it sound impossible again. Why?
Are you seriously claiming that nobody voted leave as they wanted control of our borders?
How on earth can you say we're going to leave the EU but then have a completely open border between the EU and UK?
Thats what I can't get my head round.
You get people saying there was never any intention of having a hard border. In which case what was all that about taking back control. There will be an open border from the EU to the UK.
Equally you get people saying there should be a hard border with all the consequences to the peace agreement that entails.
You've even got people saying NI should stay in the customs union. That's ridiculous, NI voted remain yet they should stay half in while the rest of the UK is totally out. Scotland voted remain as well, do they get the same option?
These are the sort of things that should have been made clear prior to the vote. Sure the EU were never going to agree a leave settlement or anything like that prior to the vote but there should have been more indication of what leave entailed. The phrase 'I hadn't realised that' is all too common when discussing what needs to happen now.
What to a free trade deal?
Northern Ireland is a unique situation. I’ve not met person correct me if I’m wrong by all means who want a hard border? Or a border different to what it is now?
Who would want that and why?
They have stated today that Northern Ireland must have the same brexit deal as the rest of the U.K. otherwise they’ll pull their support of the minority Tory government. Which could possibly force another general election, or possibly completely change the face of brexit. Maybe even to the point where the only brexit deal that could ever possibly get through Parliament is leave the EU but join the EEA. Which no one apparently voted for as that includes free movement of people and a substantial contribution to the EU with no say. As per Norway.
The solution that’s now being suggested is still a hard border. Only it’s moved from between north and south to between the UK and the UK. The DUP would rather see a hard border between the north and south than they would between Northern Ireland and the mainland. The problem hasn’t gone away, it’s just been shifted in that scenario.
Plus, on the question of the EU some protestants must have voted remain as it was a clear majority.
Fine good point, we are getting somewhere and can debate this. I wish you were always like this.
Right yes I did see that in the news today and I understand the DUP entirely. This was my original point Tony that they are royalist and want to be the same as Britain they don’t want a two tier brexit.
Now I am no Tory fan and i don’t like May. I find her weak and it’s a matter of time before she goes. Another general election is possible in my opinion although not likely.
We will have to see but I see Britain doing a good deal and Northern Ireland keeping the same rules as Britain. The border will become clearer nearer the time. Although I accept it’s not clear cut.
Finally some humour and a decent point.
That can happen now and I’m assuming for non EU citizens.
Look no one has said on here they want a hard border. There isn’t an appetite for one. It has been in operation since 1921-22. (Before EU) it can be sorted and it will be imo.
So now do you understand why the remain lot were wrong to do project fear?Thats what I can't get my head round.
You get people saying there was never any intention of having a hard border. In which case what was all that about taking back control. There will be an open border from the EU to the UK.
Equally you get people saying there should be a hard border with all the consequences to the peace agreement that entails.
You've even got people saying NI should stay in the customs union. That's ridiculous, NI voted remain yet they should stay half in while the rest of the UK is totally out. Scotland voted remain as well, do they get the same option?
These are the sort of things that should have been made clear prior to the vote. Sure the EU were never going to agree a leave settlement or anything like that prior to the vote but there should have been more indication of what leave entailed. The phrase 'I hadn't realised that' is all too common when discussing what needs to happen now.
Do you go to Ireland?So after all the talk of controlling our borders we're going to have an open border from the UK to the EU that doesn't even require you to have a passport to cross? What happens if thousands of Eastern Europeans wander across the border and lodge asylum claims or just decide to live there undetected?
That’s not what I was getting at. In my last reply to Mart I was explaining again correct me if I am wrong. No one wants a hard border in Ireland.
I’m saying Northern Ireland are British and the Republic of Ireland aren’t. Everyone wants things to stay as they are. Without being funny I’ve not spoken to one leaver who makes it out to be a problem. On here all the remainers make it seem like it’s impossible. I don’t understand why because it isn’t impossible.
Do you go to Ireland?
You still need photographic proof on who you are. So most take their passport.
Is this as much as a hardship as sime are trying to make out?
I know a few people from the north who prefer to describe themselves as Northern Irish, not British. They also want NI to remain in the CU and SM. It's not going to be possible for NI to leave both and avoid a hard border.
Yes that’s correct but you have a free trade deal and nothing changes? What’s the mess? Nothing would change from what it is now. You’re making it sound impossible again. Why?
Fine good point, we are getting somewhere and can debate this. I wish you were always like this.
Right yes I did see that in the news today and I understand the DUP entirely. This was my original point Tony that they are royalist and want to be the same as Britain they don’t want a two tier brexit.
Now I am no Tory fan and i don’t like May. I find her weak and it’s a matter of time before she goes. Another general election is possible in my opinion although not likely.
We will have to see but I see Britain doing a good deal and Northern Ireland keeping the same rules as Britain. The border will become clearer nearer the time. Although I accept it’s not clear cut.
Yes I know that to be true also. It’s the same everywhere though. We probably know some Scottish folk who see themselves as Scottish and English folk who are purely English. End of the day we all British (for now)
It’s funny actually I did some research on the 2016 referendum vote in NI and many areas Belfast and around there voted leave as a majority and all the areas on the Irish border chose to remain as a majority.
So now do you understand why the remain lot were wrong to do project fear?
But it is hard to get remoaners to even admit about all the bullshit they came out with. If you believed them you would think the bullshit only came from one side.
Then presumably a hard border is acceptable to you? The peace process would likely fall apart, which would most certainly not be worth it.
Not that’s not correct. I don’t want a hard border and as yet as not seen anyone either on here or in the media as yet.
Apart from those in NI who opt for Irish over British passports, a lot of the younger generations are going for both.
Not sure it's like everywhere and is much more complicated. Some see themselves as Northern Irish, some as British and some Irish. To claim they are all British is not true, and ignores the complexity of it all.
I’m stating Northern Ireland is British. No more or less. You’re going to in depth to a very complicated situation. I try and keep it simple and Northern Ireland are a British country and Ireland is a republic. There is the border problem to solve as a result.
I don’t want to go into every Irish citizen and ask them as I don’t have the time these days.:wideyed:
Peter Robinson once proposed an electric fence.It's going to be inevitable if NI leaves under the same conditions as the rest of the UK though. People go on about taking back control and toughening up the borders and then act surprised when it happens.
Not many gave the Irish issue a second thought and didn't really seem to consider the consequences. The whole thing is very worrying.
It can be worrying but my opinion is it will solve itself and it remains to be seen for now. You agree with me then that no hard border should be in place?
Some didn’t give it a thought you are right but voters in a heavy leave area like Boston weren’t going to think entirely about Irish borders tbf.
I absolutely don't want a hard border and any return to violence over this would be a disaster. This is very much a mess for the government to resolve and find a solution.
I strongly disagree that it'll solve itself though.
Of course they weren't going to, most people in England couldn't care less about it.
What to a free trade deal?
Fine good point, we are getting somewhere and can debate this. I wish you were always like this.
Right yes I did see that in the news today and I understand the DUP entirely. This was my original point Tony that they are royalist and want to be the same as Britain they don’t want a two tier brexit.
Now I am no Tory fan and i don’t like May. I find her weak and it’s a matter of time before she goes. Another general election is possible in my opinion although not likely.
We will have to see but I see Britain doing a good deal and Northern Ireland keeping the same rules as Britain. The border will become clearer nearer the time. Although I accept it’s not clear cut.
I think that madness must be endemic in the family mate !! I'm guessing his fervent dodgy politics sent you over the edge the other way ?!I saw through Farage years ago.
Didn’t KoK vote for Farage‘s party?
My mad brother actually stood as candidate for UKIP. He left on bad terms after discovering how they were milking the EU - fiddling - when he worked as a researcher for a UKIP MEP in Brussels. He never got paid and the MEP was eventually caught.
My mad brother‘s last project was campaigning for labour leave.
We don’t speak to each other.
Needless to say it is strange that you suggest I might admire anyone who supports Farage.
PS I have forgiven Tony for his Protest vote. ;-)
Do you go to Ireland?
You still need photographic proof on who you are. So most take their passport.
Is this as much as a hardship as sime are trying to make out?
I’m stating Northern Ireland is British. No more or less. You’re going to in depth to a very complicated situation. I try and keep it simple and Northern Ireland are a British country and Ireland is a republic. There is the border problem to solve as a result.
I don’t want to go into every Irish citizen and ask them as I don’t have the time these days.:wideyed:
I know a few people from the north who prefer to describe themselves as Northern Irish, not British. They also want NI to remain in the CU and SM. It's not going to be possible for NI to leave both and avoid a hard border.
I think that madness must be endemic in the family mate !! I'm guessing his fervent dodgy politics sent you over the edge the other way ?!
There is the border problem to solve as a result.
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