The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (97 Viewers)

Kingokings204 · Jun 28, 2016

chiefdave said:
We haven't left yet! We haven't even invoked article 50. Our current Prime Minister has no intention of doing so and even Johnson seems to be cooling on the idea saying the referendum result was far from decisive.

I wouldn't bet against article 50 never being invoked by this government.

Yes I couldn't agree more it looks like backtracking already but it must be invoked if nothing else to preserve democracy in this country. If you don't follow it through now it makes you look weak and you will have riots in the streets. No one wants that do they?

We had a democratic vote and one side had to win. There was no draws like football. You can't change the result because you don't like it. Doing that makes you a banana republic and a joke of a country.

Agree? Or do you think there should be a second refendum also? (Genuine question)

martcov · Jun 28, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
well kind of. tbf the eurosceptics are heavily outnumbered in that parliament if that's what you can call it. Be a bit like saying the away side in a football match didn't cheer as loud because they only had 2k fans there compared to 30k home fans.

Look I get the remain side I see it also. They don't want Britain to leave the EU. Why would they? We are their biggest contributor and their biggest export zone in the world. I get it.

Don't you get it? UK does no longer have a right to be. Northern Ireland and Scotland have a right to self determination. The UK is finished unless we remain - which we cannot. The EU will survive. They have got the message and will reform.

chiefdave · Jun 28, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Agree? Or do you think there should be a second refendum also?

Its a difficult question for me because it appears so many people voted on the basis of two very big lies. I know we always get lies in any election but not on this scale. Of course not everyone voted based on immigration and the cost of being a member but enough of coming out of the woodwork for it to be a concern.

I would prefer a second referendum to the result just being ignored. Polling might play a big part, as inaccurate as it can be if polls start showing a big swing towards remain it would give the government just the excuse it needs.

chiefdave · Jun 28, 2016

martcov said:
The UK is finished unless we remain

Boris can hardly go to Scotland and Northern Island with a 'better together' campaign!

martcov · Jun 28, 2016

chiefdave said:
Its a difficult question for me because it appears so many people voted on the basis of two very big lies. I know we always get lies in any election but not on this scale. Of course not everyone voted based on immigration and the cost of being a member but enough of coming out of the woodwork for it to be a concern.

I would prefer a second referendum to the result just being ignored. Polling might play a big part, as inaccurate as it can be if polls start showing a big swing towards remain it would give the government just the excuse it needs.

The stakes are high. The BS was unbelievable. The people spoke - but were influenced by BS ( contributor Murdoch ). We need a new Parliament which calls for a pro EU Mandate - and they will get it.

martcov · Jun 28, 2016

chiefdave said:
Boris can hardly go to Scotland and Northern Island with a 'better together' campaign!

Chances of = 0,00

Terry Gibson's perm · Jun 28, 2016

Is there a time scale for article 50 to invoked?

martcov · Jun 28, 2016

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Is there a time scale for article 50 to invoked?

No, but the EU wants it asap.

Terry Gibson's perm · Jun 28, 2016

martcov said:
No, but the EU wants it asap.

But they can't enforce it?

dutchman · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
Sorry. Won't happen, they are too linked to Germany economically. I live 50 miles from the border - we need each other.

Denmark and Ireland only joined because Britain did, they were frightened of losing their biggest export market.

Kingokings204 · Jun 29, 2016

chiefdave said:
Its a difficult question for me because it appears so many people voted on the basis of two very big lies. I know we always get lies in any election but not on this scale. Of course not everyone voted based on immigration and the cost of being a member but enough of coming out of the woodwork for it to be a concern.

I would prefer a second referendum to the result just being ignored. Polling might play a big part, as inaccurate as it can be if polls start showing a big swing towards remain it would give the government just the excuse it needs.

I've got two major issues.

1. What if we vote remain second time and then we get two big lies from them? Do we have a third referendum?

2. What if we vote leave again? Do we have to have another because again there was another lie?

just my opinion I find this post very hard to accept. Sorry.

dutchman · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
The stakes are high. The BS was unbelievable. The people spoke - but were influenced by BS ( contributor Murdoch ). We need a new Parliament which calls for a pro EU Mandate - and they will get it.

Many pro-EU parliamentary candidates - both labour and tory - were/are due to be deselected by their local constituencies before the next election. Cameron knew that which is why he called the referendum as quickly as possible.

The likelihood is the next parliament will be overwhelmingly anti-EU.

Macca · Jun 29, 2016

If you are going to have a second referendum you may as well just save time and change the initial decision. Many many people who voted leave would not vote at all second time around as they would feel it to be pointless. Personally I would never vote in any matter in this country again.
And it would surprise you which way I voted in the referendum

shelby76 · Jun 29, 2016

Wasps=EU, CCFC=GB were fucked!! for a good few years but worth it though hold on to your hats, it will only get amicable when half those eu leaders are voted out and new leaders come in with no axe to grind.

Captain Dart · Jun 29, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
If you don't follow it through now it makes you look weak and you will have riots in the streets.

Not when the leave vote is largely over 55's. But if the new PM fudges overmuch the next General Election result will result in big Tory losses.

That combined with Labour imploding will make fore a much altered political landscape.

mrtrench · Jun 29, 2016

Given that many older people voted Leave, we should leave it a little while before the second referendum and then some will have died. We could also change the voting paper to have double negatives etc. to catch all the stupid people who voted incorrectly. Or we could simply change some of the votes afterwards. Lots of people used pen but tippex would do the trick.

skybluetony176 · Jun 29, 2016

I had a very good, very long conversation with a sensible mate the other day who voted out not on the basis of immigration. We both believe that freedom of movement between the UK and the EU will remain as part of our deal to remain in the common market and he admitted that he never thought otherwise even before he cast his vote.

We also found out that neither of us made our decisions based on what either the in or out campaign said because if you took what either said on balance you wouldn't have voted for either rather we both went and did our own research and voted based on that and not on anything from the campaigns. To be honest he put me at ease a little over brexit although didn't convince me that if there was a second referendum to change my vote.

Funny thing is that he doesn't want a second referendum and openly admited to me that that is because he knows that given what's come out since there's no way the leave campaign would win. He basically thinks that they'll be a much lower turn out because the majority of those that voted out because of the immigrunts probably won't vote second time around. I tend to agree.

Moff · Jun 29, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
I had a very good, very long conversation with a sensible mate the other day who voted out not on the basis of immigration. We both believe that freedom of movement between the UK and the EU will remain as part of our deal to remain in the common market and he admitted that he never thought otherwise even before he cast his vote.

We also found out that neither of us made our decisions based on what either the in or out campaign said because if you took what either said on balance you wouldn't have voted for either rather we both went and did our own research and voted based on that and not on anything from the campaigns. To be honest he put me at ease a little over brexit although didn't convince me that if there was a second referendum to change my vote.

Funny thing is that he doesn't want a second referendum and openly admited to me that that is because he knows that given what's come out since there's no way the leave campaign would win. He basically thinks that they'll be a much lower turn out because the majority of those that voted out because of the immigrunts probably won't vote second time around. I tend to agree.

Well Tony, we cant call each other stupid today as we agree with each other.

I agree that there would be a much lower turnout if there was ever a second referendum, I think a number of voters, probably more Out voters,wouldn't bother voting again due to it making a bit of a mockery of democracy, as to have another referendum would mean their original vote counted for nothing, and would this keep going on and on and on......

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jun 29, 2016

with hindsight, the thing that is really pissing me off is Corbyn and his total lack of conviction, even cowardice.....

If he had the courage of his convictions, he could so easily have lead a brexit out the left side door....not the right....

If he had the balls to actually follow his heart instead of his spin doctors advice (who have since deserted him).

As NW, Grendel & others have mentioned before, there is a strong moral, ideological & rational case to be made by the left wing to leave the federalist bankster driven corrupt undemocratic EU.....but he went safe & fucked himself & his party.....

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jun 29, 2016

Also.....as a side note, there is no way on earth the scots will be able to remain in the EU without bending to the EU will........how do you think that would sit with the other member states.....no chance they'd allow it...

The scots would have to make the same sacrifices as all others.......they'd have zero chance of keeping the pound and they'd also have some pretty horrifying austerity imposed on them from the off.....

....painting your face blue & screaming freedom won't help a jot.

olderskyblue · Jun 29, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
I had a very good, very long conversation with a sensible mate the other day who voted out not on the basis of immigration. We both believe that freedom of movement between the UK and the EU will remain as part of our deal to remain in the common market and he admitted that he never thought otherwise even before he cast his vote.

We also found out that neither of us made our decisions based on what either the in or out campaign said because if you took what either said on balance you wouldn't have voted for either rather we both went and did our own research and voted based on that and not on anything from the campaigns. To be honest he put me at ease a little over brexit although didn't convince me that if there was a second referendum to change my vote.

Funny thing is that he doesn't want a second referendum and openly admited to me that that is because he knows that given what's come out since there's no way the leave campaign would win. He basically thinks that they'll be a much lower turn out because the majority of those that voted out because of the immigrunts probably won't vote second time around. I tend to agree.

If we had a second referendum, I would change my original vote to a leave vote... as a protest at having another go because we didn't get the result we wanted the first time. imo, this would shit all over the idea we are a democratic country, and set a bad precedence for any future vote we have on any other subject.

martcov · Jun 29, 2016

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Also.....as a side note, there is no way on earth the scots will be able to remain in the EU without bending to the EU will........how do you think that would sit with the other member states.....no chance they'd allow it...

The scots would have to make the same sacrifices as all others.......they'd have zero chance of keeping the pound and they'd also have some pretty horrifying austerity imposed on them from the off.....

....painting your face blue & screaming freedom won't help a jot.

Same goes for people waving Union flags and shouting 'historic victory' having just started the ball rolling to the demise of the Union.

martcov · Jun 29, 2016

olderskyblue said:
If we had a second referendum, I would change my original vote to a leave vote... as a protest at having another go because we didn't get the result we wanted the first time. imo, this would shit all over the idea we are a democratic country, and set a bad precedence for any future vote we have on any other subject.

It is one thing losing a general election because of blatant lies and hollow promises - you can vote the other way next time round. This time you were conned, but are stuck with the result. A mockery of democracy.

martcov · Jun 29, 2016

dutchman said:
Many pro-EU parliamentary candidates - both labour and tory - were/are due to be deselected by their local constituencies before the next election. Cameron knew that which is why he called the referendum as quickly as possible.

The likelihood is the next parliament will be overwhelmingly anti-EU.

Depends on whether leaver promises are kept and whether it pans out as they predicted.

martcov · Jun 29, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
I've got two major issues.

1. What if we vote remain second time and then we get two big lies from them? Do we have a third referendum?

2. What if we vote leave again? Do we have to have another because again there was another lie?

just my opinion I find this post very hard to accept. Sorry.

The referendum should never have happened. We have a Parliament to govern us. Referenda can be manipulated by populists - as we have seen. It is harder to swing a whole parliament than to wind up the electorate.

Ashdown · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
It is one thing losing a general election because of blatant lies and hollow promises - you can vote the other way next time round. This time you were conned, but are stuck with the result. A mockery of democracy.

No we were not conned though, only in your tiny biased mind. Most Leave voters I know are delighted with the shake up that is now occurring. The Pound and FTSE 100 are slowly recovering { I bet you are pissed off about that } and people are just getting on with their lives. You carry on waving your welcome banners by all means but please stay in Germany with them !
Most of us are looking on horrified at another shocking terrorist attack but you keep doing your bit................be careful your daisy chain is slipping down though.

martcov · Jun 29, 2016

Ashdown said:
No we were not conned though, only in your tiny biased mind. Most Leave voters I know are delighted with the shake up that is now occurring. The Pound and FTSE 100 are slowly recovering { I bet you are pissed off about that } and people are just getting on with their lives. You carry on waving your welcome banners by all means but please stay in Germany with them !
Most of us are looking on horrified at another shocking terrorist attack but you keep doing your bit................be careful your daisy chain is slipping down though.

Really? Not conned...? Seems to have been a lot of delighted people outside parliament.

Yes, genuine refugees welcome. Scumbags to be repatriated.

What is my bit in the terrorist attack?

My bit in Germany is selling British products and helping people promote Britain on tourist fairs. What is your bit for Britain? Apart from hoping foreigners don't come to the UK and that those already here preferably fuck off back where they came from..

Ashdown · Jun 29, 2016

A handful of champagne socialists....................soon to be off back to Daddies pad in Surbiton. I don't see this crap anywhere else in the country ??
Good on you for promoting British products, more should be doing this now.
I hope we continue to get plenty of foreigners come to Britain but only those who have the skills we need, job offers etc and those who are prepared to integrate and don't present a security risk.
No one apart from a handful of nutters are expecting foreigners to just flock back home.

olderskyblue · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
It is one thing losing a general election because of blatant lies and hollow promises - you can vote the other way next time round. This time you were conned, but are stuck with the result. A mockery of democracy.

I admit, I was conned. I voted remain. Perhaps you missed that bit...

Moff · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
It is one thing losing a general election because of blatant lies and hollow promises - you can vote the other way next time round. This time you were conned, but are stuck with the result. A mockery of democracy.

Its a mockery of democracy only as you disagree with the way the vote went. I didn't vote leave but accept the decision. Both sides bent the truth, but you seem to have missed that.

Moff · Jun 29, 2016

martcov said:
My bit in Germany is selling British products and helping people promote Britain on tourist fairs. What is your bit for Britain? Apart from hoping foreigners don't come to the UK and that those already here preferably fuck off back where they came from..

Bloody hell I know this post was aimed at someone else but you are coming across as a huge bigot.

I have spoken to quite a number of leave voters who voted on democratic issues, as well as financial ones, with nothing related to immigration as they realise that there will still be a large amount of free movement. For you to tarnish all people that voted leave as racists, makes you a small minded bigot as you are basing your facts on nothing more than supposition.

mrtrench · Jun 29, 2016

And of all the opinions on here, not one lists race as an issue.

Moff · Jun 29, 2016

mrtrench said:
And of all the opinions on here, not one lists race as an issue.

So the implied tone that 'people should fuck off back to where they came from' isn't suggesting racism? I suggest otherwise.

The word racist has been used a number of times through the thread.

Nick · Jun 29, 2016

Moff said:
So the implied tone that 'people should fuck off back to where they came from' isn't suggesting racism? I suggest otherwise.

The word racist has been used a number of times through the thread.

Wasn't that just Mart though?

It seems the race card is on fire recently, lots of racist graffiti appearing since the Brexit Vote. I'd put money on a large % of it being done by people who wanted to remain

Captain Dart · Jun 29, 2016

Captain Dart said:
Chill, give it a month if the ship hasn't steadied by then I'll be worried but its only 2 market days in.

UK shares and pound continue to recover
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (97 Viewers)

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