The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (172 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Not necessarily, it assumes all of those countries already have a FTA with the EU which isn't true. Our biggest non EU export market is the USA, they do not have an FTA with the EU (so none with the UK either). The US has a slight trade surplus with the UK currently but nowhere near the level of the EU-UK surplus.

So do you expect us to have a free trade agreement with the USA once we leave? Will it be a blanket FTA or will it be a reciprocal agreement? What goods are you expecting us to sell more of into the US once we leave? Assuming that we get some sort of FTA with the US that is.

 

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[Astute]

we export 50 billion pound more to the rest of the world than to the EU but that is split between several countries which all require new deals negotiating.

Several countries that have a deal with the EU and several that don't.

 

[clint van damme]

Several countries that have a deal with the EU and several that don't.

but we'll still have to renegotiate them all, or more to the point, Liam Fox will, which is the most worrying part fro me.

 

[Astute]

there isn't really a comparison with those voting remain because people were basically voting for the status quo. There would have been no process to go through if remain won as there is with exiting so the two aren't really the same.

But those of us didn't vote leave didn't know how bad they are that runs the EU.

If you are allowed to have been wrong one way then why not the other?

 

[Astute]

So do you expect us to have a free trade agreement with the USA once we leave? Will it be a blanket FTA or will it be a reciprocal agreement? What goods are you expecting us to sell more of into the US once we leave? Assuming that we get some sort of FTA with the US that is.

Are you saying that it is easier for 27 countries to come to an agreement than 1?

 

[martcov]

And just the same for those of us who voted remain. I didn't know how bad those running the EU are. We have since learned that they don't put EU citizens first. It is what is best for them.

No you haven’t. You just made that up. They are sticking to their guns. Rightly so.

 

[martcov]

Are you saying that it is easier for 27 countries to come to an agreement than 1?

It obviously is. Just read the newspapers or watch the news.

Even the leavers can’t agree on what leaving means.

 

[martcov]

But those of us didn't vote leave didn't know how bad they are that runs the EU.

If you are allowed to have been wrong one way then why not the other?

Because the facts don’t fit your argument.

 

[clint van damme]

But those of us didn't vote leave didn't know how bad they are that runs the EU.

If you are allowed to have been wrong one way then why not the other?

I'm not on about people being wrong, I'm saying there was no consensus on exactly what Brexit meant. it's undeniable to be honest, especially when even the PM and her cabinet can't agree, (see Boris's comments yesterday).

 

[Astute]

No you haven’t. You just made that up. They are sticking to their guns. Rightly so.

Doing what is best for the citizens of the EU?

 

[Astute]

It obviously is. Just read the newspapers or watch the news.

Even the leavers can’t agree on what leaving means.

Read the pro remain papers you mean?

The EU has to try and protect many EU countries. Otherwise they could end up donating even more money to them each year. It makes it difficult to negotiate.

One country has it much easier whichever way you put it.

 

[Astute]

Because the facts don’t fit your argument.

I don't have an argument. I just make points many would like to ignore.

 

[Astute]

I'm not on about people being wrong, I'm saying there was no consensus on exactly what Brexit meant. it's undeniable to be honest, especially when even the PM and her cabinet can't agree, (see Boris's comments yesterday).

So people voted leave because of what Boris said?

It wasn't said what would happen if we voted leave. I agree. Nobody knew how arrogant the EU would be in their attempt to get us to stay in.

It would be much easier if they wanted what is best for all. But it seems they want to make us a warning for the other 27 countries. But that doesn't mean it will be like that when the final deal is done.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you saying that it is easier for 27 countries to come to an agreement than 1?

I’m saying 27 countries are negotiating from a position of strength in numbers. People keep mentioning the USA as if leaving the EU is all of a sudden going to open doors for us. That’s the US that has the most protectionist president in a lifetime who seems to increase tariffs on imports for fun. Then you have India who according to the head of the Indian chamber of commerce to the EU the stumbling block in creating free trade agreements with the EU is the U.K. and it’s obsession with immigration caps curtailing any trade negotiations. That’s India who again has been touted by the pro brexit camp as someone that the EU hold us back from trading with.

Where’s these gains going to come from? Just listing countries that the EU doesn’t have free trade agreements with isn’t an assurance that we’ll do better on our own. Certainly where India is concerned it seems India expect to achieve more with the EU when we leave. Which is surprising given that the EU is apparently a dictatorship that we have no say in.

 

[Astute]

I’m saying 27 countries are negotiating from a position of strength in numbers. People keep mentioning the USA as if leaving the EU is all of a sudden going to open doors for us. That’s the US that has the most protectionist president in a lifetime who seems to increase tariffs on imports for fun. Then you have India who according to the head of the Indian chamber of commerce to the EU the stumbling block in creating free trade agreements with the EU is the U.K. and it’s obsession with immigration caps curtailing any trade negotiations. That’s India who again has been touted by the pro brexit camp as someone that the EU hold us back from trading with.

Where’s these gains going to come from? Just listing countries that the EU doesn’t have free trade agreements with isn’t an assurance that we’ll do better on our own. Certainly where India is concerned it seems India expect to achieve more with the EU when we leave. Which is surprising given that the EU is apparently a dictatorship that we have no say in.

Them same countries that have tried to make deals with countries for years and have given up?

 

[skybluetony176]

Talking of the UK’s obsession with immigration caps

Visa clampdown 'hits cancer patients'

 

[Sick Boy]

I don't have an argument. I just make points many would like to ignore.

You previously stated you are pro-Brexit, of course you have an argument

 

[Sick Boy]

Them same countries that have tried to make deals with countries for years and have given up?

The UK is the one who had been holding up an EU trade deal with India. Once Britain leaves it will easier for the EU to conclude.

 

[skybluetony176]

Them same countries that have tried to make deals with countries for years and have given up?

How many of which have we been the issue as in India’s case? Why are our demands going to change once we leave the EU that means we’ll be able to make trade agreements with India that we were apparently stumbling as EU members?

 

[clint van damme]

So people voted leave because of what Boris said?

It wasn't said what would happen if we voted leave. I agree. Nobody knew how arrogant the EU would be in their attempt to get us to stay in.

It would be much easier if they wanted what is best for all. But it seems they want to make us a warning for the other 27 countries. But that doesn't mean it will be like that when the final deal is done.

you're missing the point completely.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So do you expect us to have a free trade agreement with the USA once we leave? Will it be a blanket FTA or will it be a reciprocal agreement? What goods are you expecting us to sell more of into the US once we leave? Assuming that we get some sort of FTA with the US that is.

No, I am just saying that FTA are not a pre requisite for trade. The US being a clear case in point. I don't see us agreeing an FTA with the US, even if we did I would suggest it would be weighted heavily in their favour, just like the TTIP.

 

[clint van damme]

No, I am just saying that FTA are not a pre requisite for trade. The US being a clear case in point. I don't see us agreeing an FTA with the US, even if we did I would suggest it would be weighted heavily in their favour, just like the TTIP.

I think you're right. Here is a link to the US trade promotion authority website:

Trade Promotion Authority | United States Trade Representative

understandably, their main concern is with getting the best deal for the US, but this line is the worrying one:

"This is particularly important on newer issues affecting our ability to compete in the global economy, such as leveling the playing field between state-owned enterprises and our private firms."

 

[Sick Boy]

They are unelected rich people mainly.

A bit like the monarchy then.

 

[Astute]

You previously stated you are pro-Brexit, of course you have an argument

I have previously said that I can see good from leaving. And I can.

Those that say nothing good can come from leaving are deluded or lying.

 

[Astute]

The UK is the one who had been holding up an EU trade deal with India. Once Britain leaves it will easier for the EU to conclude.

Totally wrong.

And the EU has even admitted that it will really be hard to come to an agreement even after we have left.

 

[Astute]

A bit like the monarchy then.

At least the Monarchy don't try and get involved in things that would benefit themselves financially.

 

[Astute]

I think you're right. Here is a link to the US trade promotion authority website:

Trade Promotion Authority | United States Trade Representative

understandably, their main concern is with getting the best deal for the US, but this line is the worrying one:

"This is particularly important on newer issues affecting our ability to compete in the global economy, such as leveling the playing field between state-owned enterprises and our private firms."

Most worrying?

GM modified foods are much more worrying to me. And any deal would have the sale of them involved.

 

[clint van damme]

my concern with that is how it relates to the NHS.

 

[martcov]

So people voted leave because of what Boris said?

It wasn't said what would happen if we voted leave. I agree. Nobody knew how arrogant the EU would be in their attempt to get us to stay in.

It would be much easier if they wanted what is best for all. But it seems they want to make us a warning for the other 27 countries. But that doesn't mean it will be like that when the final deal is done.

The EU has rules which everyone has to abide by. It is arrogant to expect Britain to leave and at the same time expect the EU to alter the rules because it suits the UK.

 

[Astute]

The EU has rules which everyone has to abide by. It is arrogant to expect Britain to leave and at the same time expect the EU to alter the rules because it suits the UK.

Who is being arrogant?

The idea of many countries joining together is that they can all benefit. Their citizens then benefit.

Are you telling me that it is what the EU is all about?

 

[Astute]

my concern with that is how it relates to the NHS.

As in long term with the damage that might be done from eating food we don't know about?

 

[clint van damme]

As in long term with the damage that might be done from eating food we don't know about?

No, I think that statement shows they would seek provision for private US medical companies to take over bigger chunks of the NHS.
I din't know a great deal about the food industry angle but there seems to be a lot of concern about that as well.

 

[Astute]

No, I think that statement shows they would seek provision for private US medical companies to take over bigger chunks of the NHS.
I din't know a great deal about the food industry angle but there seems to be a lot of concern about that as well.

There is no evidence behind what you say. Plenty of scientists have come out with evidence against GM food.

 

[clint van damme]

There is no evidence behind what you say. Plenty of scientists have come out with evidence against GM food.

I've just showed you a statement from the US TPA. What do you think it means ?

"This is particularly important on newer issues affecting our ability to compete in the global economy, such as leveling the playing field between state-owned enterprises and our private firms."

There is no ambiguity. It's obviously not specifically about the NHS because it applies to all of their agreements but it's clear in encompasses the NHS. It could also refer to the Food standards agency.

 

[Astute]

I've just showed you a statement from the US TPA. What do you think it means ?

"This is particularly important on newer issues affecting our ability to compete in the global economy, such as leveling the playing field between state-owned enterprises and our private firms."

There is no ambiguity. It's obviously not specifically about the NHS because it applies to all of their agreements but it's clear in encompasses the NHS. It could also refer to the Food standards agency.

Make your mind up.

Says nothing about the NHS. And you agree. Maybe they could start up private hospitals. But the NHS is free to use.