The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (99 Viewers)

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Macca said:
Maybe but a lot of that pro support is based on fear particularly amongst the young due to relentless social media propaganda.
In the hypothetical situation that we left, once people realised that most the horror stories weren't going to happen I think it would die down.

The problem is that this should never have been a referendum as the general lack of understanding from both sides amongst the general public is frightening and largely based on Facebook copy and pastes.

I just hope that when the backtrack comes that we will have enough political pressure in this country to stand up for ourselves and not get dragged into the German led superstate

What a load of crap. Leave is up to it’s eyes in investigation into the use of social media to spread it‘s BS.

BoJo says „fxxk business“, Mogg says the CBI always gets things wrong and they are funded by the EU ( 0,6% comes from the EU... technically he hasn’t lied, but he has implied that they need the EU money ). Business provides jobs and revenue- unless the revenue ends up in a hedge fund stashed away in a tax haven. Now... who is known for hedge funds and tax havens? The prominent leavers.

Yes, of this goes pear shaped there will be a massive backlash. In the UK from the people who lose out.

And no, the EU is not a German led superstate.

Jesus wept.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Astute said:
Oh the insults are back. Well done.

So let's have a look.

How many headstones was there going to be if we voted leave? Fear?

House prices were going to crash if we voted leave? Fear?

Share prices would crash if we voted leave? Fear?

The unemployment rate would go up by millions if we voted leave? Fear?

How about the bus that keeps getting mentioned? Was that fear? No. It was the truth stretched a very long way.

Homelessness going up if we keep the borders open? Fear and truth if we don't start building hundreds of thousands of houses a year.

Would you like to complete the list?

Yes, after we have left.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Astute said:
All countries in the EU now have them. So it depends what countries you are talking about.

The UK one was Britain First. That came more or less from the BNP. Non racists voted for them as they didn't have a voice anywhere else. When UKIP came along their vote suddenly went down. So that is why I say we need UKIP if we stay in the EU. I don't want us to end up like Germany or even worse the countries that have fascist leadership in the EU.

Ffs. You have got bored with Juncker. Now it’s Germany. Rich, low crime, democratic, low unemployment.... A model EU country. Now, attack that. All the time. Like Farage and the other imbecile, Trump.

Boring...

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
What a load of crap. Leave is up to it’s eyes in investigation into the use of social media to spread it‘s BS.

BoJo says „fxxk business“, Mogg says the CBI always gets things wrong and they are funded by the EU ( 0,6% comes from the EU... technically he hasn’t lied, but he has implied that they need the EU money ). Business provides jobs and revenue- unless the revenue ends up in a hedge fund stashed away in a tax haven. Now... who is known for hedge funds and tax havens? The prominent leavers.

Yes, of this goes pear shaped there will be a massive backlash. In the UK from the people who lose out.

And no, the EU is not a German led superstate.

Jesus wept.

You might have more credibility if you use a source different to an Eu link to get 0.6% - those figures don’t actually add up by its own arguments and the contributions it quoted are innacurate

In that article doesn’t it declare a much higher percentage for the so called institute of fiscal studies?

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Ffs. You have got bored with Juncker. Now it’s Germany. Rich, low crime, democratic, low unemployment.... A model EU country. Now, attack that. All the time. Like Farage and the other imbecile, Trump.

Boring...

Trump is correct on German defence contribution in NATO - they’ve been taking the piss for years

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Astute said:
All countries in the EU now have them. So it depends what countries you are talking about.

The UK one was Britain First. That came more or less from the BNP. Non racists voted for them as they didn't have a voice anywhere else. When UKIP came along their vote suddenly went down. So that is why I say we need UKIP if we stay in the EU. I don't want us to end up like Germany or even worse the countries that have fascist leadership in the EU.

UKIP was what the Germans call a „Sammelbecken“ .... where all these sort of people- racists, bigots, ill informed, easily conned people collect.

If we had had PR they would individually be in the 1 or 2% bracket of many small parties. They wouldn’t get into parliament, but would have a voice and be on the voting slip.

As it happened, many had a common denominator which united them. Brexit. I wouldn’t say that UKIP saved us from these people. It brought them into the mainstream world. And the people who were in it spout the same BS as AfD people on social media. Britain is certainly more right wing than Germany. Seehofer‘s attempt to be a UKIP has resulted in the CSU and, in particular, himself losing support.

Still, I shouldn’t need to explain this to a remainer as yourself.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
Trump is correct on German defence contribution in NATO - they’ve been taking the piss for years

No, he is not. Firstly there are different ways of calculating Defence spending. You could include foreign aid to poor regions in Africa. That comes under preventing wars. Secondly, Germany was occupied by the USA. It was formed into a country representing American/ Western values and became an „enemy“ of Cold War Russia because of that. America put Germany into it’s camp and has the responsibility to protect it.

But, times change and Trump has shown everyone that you cannot remain tied to the US apron strings forever. It is time to plan for more inter European cooperation and tell Trump that he can no longer expect European support for wars of intervention in other people’s countries. Trump wants to sell weapons and liquid gas for his business friends. The USA is being run on business lines, not moral or ethical.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
You might have more credibility if you use a source different to an Eu link to get 0.6% - those figures don’t actually add up by its own arguments and the contributions it quoted are innacurate

In that article doesn’t it declare a much higher percentage for the so called institute of fiscal studies?

So you are saying the CBI is dependent on it’s support from the EU and will ignore the views of it’s members to keep the money? Rees Mogg is part owner of a 9,7 billion pound hedge fund. He, on the other hand, is purely interested in the working class Brexit voters‘ well being?

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

clint van damme said:
I'm not sure if the EU thread is right to post this but Jeremy Hunts successor appears to be a bigger advocate of getting rid of the NHS than he was.
Really worrying for me and I'm sure no matter what your political hue we will all regret it if we lose it.

There was never as much right wing influence in Britain as there is today. There will be a few things that get pushed through whilst we are arguing about Brexit. Brexit is a huge part of the news and political discussions. It is a distraction.

Captain Dart · Jul 12, 2018

FFS you are a PIA mart.

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
No, he is not. Firstly there are different ways of calculating Defence spending. You could include foreign aid to poor regions in Africa. That comes under preventing wars. Secondly, Germany was occupied by the USA. It was formed into a country representing American/ Western values and became an „enemy“ of Cold War Russia because of that. America put Germany into it’s camp and has the responsibility to protect it.

But, times change and Trump has shown everyone that you cannot remain tied to the US apron strings forever. It is time to plan for more inter European cooperation and tell Trump that he can no longer expect European support for wars of intervention in other people’s countries. Trump wants to sell weapons and liquid gas for his business friends. The USA is being run on business lines, not moral or ethical.

This really shows how you spend all day lapping up German state press nonsense. For years they’ve failed to achieve % of GDP targets

When Merkel speaks you spread your legs - pathetic

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
This really shows how you spend all day lapping up German state press nonsense. For years they’ve failed to achieve % of GDP targets

When Merkel speaks you spread your legs - pathetic

Not pathetic. There is no agreement that says 2%. That is a target for 6 years time. The Bundeswehr is underfinanced anyway and they will invest. There is no exact way of gauging what counts as military spending. Pensions to retired generals for example. It is not easy. The idea of the European Defence Force is to pool resources and reduce wasteful spending. Arguably better than spending for the sake of spending. Just taking a nominal figure doesn’t mean a lot. Seeing as we are allies acting in American ( previously Western Values ) interests, we don’t need an uneducated idiot spouting his mouth off. I would ask him to reduce his presence in Germany if he wants to save money.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Captain Dart said:
FFS you are a PIA mart.

Have you not noticed that people are becoming more polarised?

Sick Boy · Jul 12, 2018

Astute said:
Oh the insults are back. Well done.

So let's have a look.

How many headstones was there going to be if we voted leave? Fear?

House prices were going to crash if we voted leave? Fear?

Share prices would crash if we voted leave? Fear?

The unemployment rate would go up by millions if we voted leave? Fear?

How about the bus that keeps getting mentioned? Was that fear? No. It was the truth stretched a very long way.

Homelessness going up if we keep the borders open? Fear and truth if we don't start building hundreds of thousands of houses a year.

Would you like to complete the list?

Ignored the question about the FN & La Lega then. I wonder why?

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Not pathetic. There is no agreement that says 2%. That is a target for 6 years time. The Bundeswehr is underfinanced anyway and they will invest. There is no exact way of gauging what counts as military spending. Pensions to retired generals for example. It is not easy. The idea of the European Defence Force is to pool resources and reduce wasteful spending. Arguably better than spending for the sake of spending. Just taking a nominal figure doesn’t mean a lot. Seeing as we are allies acting in American ( previously Western Values ) interests, we don’t need an uneducated idiot spouting his mouth off. I would ask him to reduce his presence in Germany if he wants to save money.

Where did the 2% come from Mart and when?

Captain Dart · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Have you not noticed that people are becoming more polarised?

Following that ironic comment I have to ask what's that got to do with your effect on others?

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
Where did the 2% come from Mart and when?

Wales. NATO summit 2014. agreement to increase spending to 2% of GDP within 10 years. That means by 2024. which is vague ( it doesn’t say how quickly you have to increase over the period) as is how you calculate defence spending.

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Wales. NATO summit 2014. agreement to increase spending to 2% of GDP within 10 years. That means by 2024. which is vague ( it doesn’t say how quickly you have to increase over the period) as is how you calculate defence spending.

It was actually agreed initially in 2006 Mart

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
It was actually agreed initially in 2006 Mart

Not according to the Germans who were at the Wales meeting....

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
It was actually agreed initially in 2006 Mart

It is all about selling arms. The 2014 meeting was the meeting that counts as it supersedes the previous meetings.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Captain Dart said:
Following that ironic comment I have to ask what's that got to do with your effect on others?

Be more specific... which others in particular? You, because I called you out on your Breitbart posts? Or Earlsdon because I called him out on his Fria Taden „news“?

Macca · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
What a load of crap. Leave is up to it’s eyes in investigation into the use of social media to spread it‘s BS.

BoJo says „fxxk business“, Mogg says the CBI always gets things wrong and they are funded by the EU ( 0,6% comes from the EU... technically he hasn’t lied, but he has implied that they need the EU money ). Business provides jobs and revenue- unless the revenue ends up in a hedge fund stashed away in a tax haven. Now... who is known for hedge funds and tax havens? The prominent leavers.

Yes, of this goes pear shaped there will be a massive backlash. In the UK from the people who lose out.

And no, the EU is not a German led superstate.

Jesus wept.

It isn't? My mistake. A collection of nations encouraged to be European above all else sounds very much that way. Plus you ask 10 people from either side to explain their stance and they will have no clue

Mohammed cried

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Not according to the Germans who were at the Wales meeting....

Don’t believe all that the Germans tell you Mart

NATO Speech: Briefing by NATO Spokesman - MOD - 8 June 2006

Grendel · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
It is all about selling arms. The 2014 meeting was the meeting that counts as it supersedes the previous meetings.

What do you mean it’s the one that counts. It was reconfirming the original commitments

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Macca said:
It isn't? My mistake. A collection of nations encouraged to be European above all else sounds very much that way. Plus you ask 10 people from either side to explain their stance and they will have no clue

Mohammed cried

A Brexit riddle?

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
What do you mean it’s the one that counts. It was reconfirming the original commitments

2% by 2024... so where’s the problem? And, as I said, Germany is having to reequip the Bundeswehr anyway. They will meet that easily. They are having loads of problems maintaining what they have... and, there are plenty of ways of fiddling the figures.

martcov · Jul 12, 2018

Grendel said:
What do you mean it’s the one that counts. It was reconfirming the original commitments

Goes back to Prague in 2002...

From the horse‘s mouth:

https://www.bundestag.de/blob/505886/e86b5eecc480c0415bff0d131f99789f/wd-2-034-17-pdf-data.pdf

dutchman · Jul 12, 2018

At least one EU offical was pleased to see England knocked out...

England fans outraged as senior EU official appears to mock Gareth Southgate's team following 2-1 defeat to Croatia

The secretary-general of the European Commission has provoked outrage among England fans this morning after posting a tweet appearing to mock Gareth Southgate’s men following their 2-1 defeat to Croatia.

Martin Selmayr, nicknamed ‘the monster of the Berlaymont’, posted a series of footballs and European Union flags just minutes after England crashed out of the World Cup semi-finals to a rival member state.

The official, who is considered to be Jean Claude Juncker’s right-hand man in Brussels, has taken a hard line stance during the Brexit negotiations and is believed to have been pushing EU negotiators to take an uncompromising approach in their dealings with Mrs May’s Government.

chiefdave · Jul 12, 2018

Because nobody English has ever taken the piss out of other European countries when they’ve been knocked out.

dutchman · Jul 12, 2018

chiefdave said:
Because nobody English has ever taken the piss out of other European countries when they’ve been knocked out.

They probably weren't involved in delicate negotiations with those countries at the time.

Astute · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
What a load of crap. Leave is up to it’s eyes in investigation into the use of social media to spread it‘s BS.

BoJo says „fxxk business“, Mogg says the CBI always gets things wrong and they are funded by the EU ( 0,6% comes from the EU... technically he hasn’t lied, but he has implied that they need the EU money ). Business provides jobs and revenue- unless the revenue ends up in a hedge fund stashed away in a tax haven. Now... who is known for hedge funds and tax havens? The prominent leavers.

Yes, of this goes pear shaped there will be a massive backlash. In the UK from the people who lose out.

And no, the EU is not a German led superstate.

Jesus wept.

Yes Mart. Whatever.

Astute · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
Yes, after we have left.

Not at all. It was supposed to happen if we voted leave. But you know that. Just like everyone else does.

Astute · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
UKIP was what the Germans call a „Sammelbecken“ .... where all these sort of people- racists, bigots, ill informed, easily conned people collect.

If we had had PR they would individually be in the 1 or 2% bracket of many small parties. They wouldn’t get into parliament, but would have a voice and be on the voting slip.

As it happened, many had a common denominator which united them. Brexit. I wouldn’t say that UKIP saved us from these people. It brought them into the mainstream world. And the people who were in it spout the same BS as AfD people on social media. Britain is certainly more right wing than Germany. Seehofer‘s attempt to be a UKIP has resulted in the CSU and, in particular, himself losing support.

Still, I shouldn’t need to explain this to a remainer as yourself.

The UK more right wing than Germany?

Remind us how many Germans voted AfD again Mart.

Astute · Jul 12, 2018

martcov said:
There was never as much right wing influence in Britain as there is today. There will be a few things that get pushed through whilst we are arguing about Brexit. Brexit is a huge part of the news and political discussions. It is a distraction.

UKIP is finished unless Juncker gets his way and we stay in the EU. So what parties do we have that you count as right wing?

Are they as right wing as millions of Germans who voted that way? And how many in the UK are as bad?

But yeah it is all down to the UK and not Germany. The problem is that we don't believe in fairy tales. We know the truth.

Astute · Jul 12, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Ignored the question about the FN & La Lega then. I wonder why?

Not ignored anything. But you haven't made comments about anything I have posted or backed Mart up as you usually do. Is he that hard to back up with his current comments?

La Lega is becoming more racist as it goes along it seems. But you know more than I do. They are compared with Front Nationale (As you mentioned) and the BNP and NF in the UK.

So what point are you ready to pounce on me with?

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (99 Viewers)

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