Why are you surprised that he wants what's best for them even if it's not best for us?
This is a common misconception that I've seen many times. It was also @torchomatic having a pop at the voters a few pages back.
The reality is, if there was no doubt the EU were doing a good job, we wouldn't have left. You can blame Farage, The Daily Mail, the voters, whatever you like. The reality is, 17.5 million people voted to leave. This is not a mass brainwashing or people not knowing what they were voting for. This is literally millions and millions of people expressing dissatisfaction with them. The numbers would have been considerably less had they been doing a decent job.
There has been almost zero acceptance that the EU have done anything wrong in all of this. They seem to escape criticism a lot more than they should and I do not understand it. Even as a leave voter I acknowledge the EU do a lot of really good things, I also think they do a lot of bad things. The reason this debate goes round and round, and has done for two years is that not everyone in this argument is able to see things from both sides.
Blaming the voters is the same strain of attitude which pushed a lot of people to reject the EU at the referendum in the first place.
Keep taking the medications
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What easy life?
You mean clear facts? Yes...I like those.Why? Don’t you like facts?
You mean clear facts? Yes...I like those.
Martfacts? Errrr...draw your own conclusions.
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The UK wants to take back control of its money, law, and borders. We will respect that," he said.
"But the EU also wants to keep control of its money, law, and borders. The UK should respect that."
Barnier added that Prime Minister Theresa May might instead offer to join a customs union with the EU, although that would prevent London cutting its own trade deals with other countries. May has ruled out a customs union and Raab said Britain still believed it could reach a deal to avoid a "hard border".
That bit from Barnier tells the whole story :wideyed:
I bet they did.....Shitting themselves knowing their easy life will soon be over....
As I’ve said before at the time I was in a team of 7 people all university educated all over 38 and all earning sizeable incomes. Six of us voted leave.
The UK has had enough of experts, apparently.
The UK has had enough of experts, apparently.
It wasn't an issue for me personally. I have family living elsewhere in the EU. I have just under 10 years maximum before I start touring Europe for the rest of my days.....If still allowed. But I am not blind to the issues for other people or issues with the way the EU is run.It wasn't an issue for me personally and it surprised me how much it was for others.
If you insult people you need to understand that you will get them back. And I have been insulted more on this thread than I have in the rest of my life put together. Yet some see it as OK. And just because I like to look at both sides of the coin.Weird you have ignored the insults aimed at those who voted remain on here then.
Neutral?Come on, he must have made a mistake, he's neutral after all and will be aware that the EU will be fighting for the best deal for itself as well.
Perhaps there's a Dongle-esque issue with his Internet connection and not all of his posts are getting through to this thread?
Come on Mart. What was the red bus lie?It is indeed unfortunate that the Brexit vote won. According to the select committee‘s questioning, 45% of leave adds in Facebook were about immigration, the next highest was the red bus lie.
They obviously thought that people were more likely to vote on emotional issues such as immigration and less on whether the EU was doing a good job.
Conclusions are not facts though Mart.I have long ago drawn my own conclusions thanks. As you can imagine...
Tell me one thing then.Yes, I suppose you like that. He is doing what leavers want for themselves. Fair play to him. Britain seems to be in some sort of fantasy land about borders. On the one hand we want to control our borders and on the other we don’t want anything to do with our only land border.
And where does this money come from?The EU provides substantial amounts of funding for research in UK universities and since we have a dearth of our own scientists we tend to rely on foreigners to carry out that research.
Neutral?
There is no such thing as neutral on a thread like this. But you can lean towards one way more than the other.
Personally I need us to stay in the EU or at least have a deal where I can travel where I want when I want without time limits. I want my family who live elsewhere in the EU to be able to stay there.
But staying in the EU isn't what is best just because it is best for you and me. I have more children than most. My children have a bigger age difference than most. I have seen how it is getting harder for the younger ones. I would retire now but I still have 8 and 9 year olds at home. I dread to think what it would be like for them if the housing situation continues. But I am not supposed to think about them.
Tell me one thing then.
What is the problem with having the same trade deal that we have now? After all the EU is trying to make similar deals all over the world. And EU countries sell untold billions more here than we sell to the countries in the EU each year.
At least we would be able to choose the right skills for what is needed and not just what passport is held.Do you really believe there is going to be a significant drop in EU and non EU migration? If so, I think you're going to be disappointed.
You'd better hope governments get on with building homes in the coming years, otherwise who will be the next ones to blame?
Do you really believe there is going to be a significant drop in EU and non EU migration? If so, I think you're going to be disappointed.
You'd better hope governments get on with building homes in the coming years, otherwise who will be the next ones to blame?
At least we would be able to choose the right skills for what is needed and not just what passport is held.
And how many more years can we continue to have nearly half a million people come to live in the UK? The roads are rammed in many places. There is no room for new roads unless homes are demolished to make room. We need a couple of million new homes at present numbers. But the amount being built just about keeps up with the rate coming here. And our population is also naturally going up. We need new or extended hospitals all over the place. They cost billions each. Then you have the doctors, schools and similar needed.
But of course it doesn't matter to some that we can't choose what skills come here.
Even Rees Mogg has said there will be more immigrants. Not at first because of what people voted for, but immigration will have to continue to sustain the economy. He suggested that it would be more from Asia as existing Asian migrant families would bring their relations over.
Why not try saying the truth for once.We have more than a trade deal. We are in the CU and SM. It is indeed the best deal available, but you don’t like it. We can buy and sell anywhere in the EU, we can invest and we can live and work anywhere. You don’t like it because others can do the same as we can. You want our freedoms, but the others cannot have theirs in the UK. The EU has said you can’t have your cake and eat it. Fair enough. If every country did that, there would be no SM and CU. So, whatever deal we get will be worse than we have. It has to be.
At least we would be able to choose the right skills for what is needed and not just what passport is held.
And how many more years can we continue to have nearly half a million people come to live in the UK? The roads are rammed in many places. There is no room for new roads unless homes are demolished to make room. We need a couple of million new homes at present numbers. But the amount being built just about keeps up with the rate coming here. And our population is also naturally going up. We need new or extended hospitals all over the place. They cost billions each. Then you have the doctors, schools and similar
But of course it doesn't matter to some that we can't choose what skills come here.
Why not try saying the truth for once.
So where have I said that I don't like the present deals?
Where have I said that I don't like the idea on being able to live or visit anywhere I like or refuse the rights to others?
So explain why we can't have the same trade deals? The same trade deals the EU are trying to offer all over the world?
What I do see from you is your inability to differentiate from what I and many others want to what we would think is best to get us out of this shite situation and also your inability to see things from more than your 100% solid views.
That's going to go down well, isn't it haha
Have you forgotten about my countless previous posts on the subject?As i said, at least you'll have to actually start looking at the UK government to actually invest in essential infastructure and services.
You haven't explained anything.I just did explain it. Barnier explained it yet again. You blame everything from traffic to a lack of cheap housing being built on a part of the deal we have. Now you say you like the existing deal. Either you like it = remain, or you don’t = leave. You want your cake and eat it, which is not on the table. That is the case since the beginning. Nothing to do with me or my opinions.
Come on Mart. What was the red bus lie?
The EU doing a good job? They are if you agree with protectionism and giving money to the rich and people working within the EU. I thought the EU was 100% good until I was forced to look into it by comments made by those desperate for us to remain in it.
Enjoy your meltdown at work.Yes, I’m off to work now as meltdown commences...
Come on Mart. What was on the side of the bus? We all know. You always make so much of it.The lie was in big letters written on a bus. The figure was too high as a total and didn’t tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. In other words, a false statement.
You haven't explained anything.
So why can't we have the same deal that the EU are offering to countries over the rest of the world?
We also have a smaller piece of the cake than the EU does. They do better out of it than we do. In other words they are trying to force us into staying in the EU. That is the part that doesn't sit well with me.
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