The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (159 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Sep 5, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Like Astute said.

So who pays the loan back? If said Koc Holdings pull out - who pays it back? Or would it be defaulted?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Well, everything I’ve read on it says that the loan was made to Ford. No mention of Koc Holdings. So you can make your own mind up but I would suggest that Ford are responsible for the loan whether the joint venture with Koc lasts 10 minutes or a millennium.

This is from the EIB website “Loan repayment is normally on a semi-annual or annual basis. Grace periods for capital repayment may be granted for a project’s construction phase.” Not an expert and someone else is sure to know better than me but the final sentence in that quote suggests to me that the loan was used for cash flow to bankroll the construction phase. If my assumption is correct that would suggest that the loan has already been paid back and you’re worrying yourself about nothing. Could be wrong though.

Edit. I was wrong. The loan is due to be paid back in 2022 from what I’ve just read.

skybluetony176 · Sep 5, 2018

Astute said:
They call it a shared venture. They have an equal share. That means 50/50. So they both own 50%. It is different to cost sharing. Motor manufacturers do it all the time.

They both own 50% of what exactly? The factory? Koc is a major shareholder in Ford? Ford is a major shareholder in Koc?

Astute · Sep 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
They both own 50% of what exactly? The factory? Koc is a major shareholder in Ford? Ford is a major shareholder in Koc?

Why do you have a problem understanding simple things?

The EIB is the bank of the EU. The EU uses it as a vehicle to give out loans. Countries of the EU fund it. So loans given out are done so by the EU.

The KOC and Ford thing in Turkey is a shared partnership. One supplied the product to be built. The other supplied the factory and cheap labour. It is a 50/50 partnership. So they both own 50%. Both sides have done well out of it. Ford look to be pulling out of the EU with their present motors. But they can let KOC continue and make money from it with much less risk.

Monners · Sep 5, 2018

Grendel · Sep 5, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
They both own 50% of what exactly? The factory? Koc is a major shareholder in Ford? Ford is a major shareholder in Koc?

Joint ventures are 50/50 sharec ownership models usually to enable production in certain countries that have this as an entry requirement.

It’s not a difficult concept

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2018

Monners said:

It's got a bit too eyeball poking out time for as well now, and that's saying something!

dutchman · Sep 8, 2018

Irish border problem solved! :emoji_stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Ashdown · Sep 8, 2018

Merkel sticking her fat ugly mush into Macedonia now with her European project. Stupid cow !!

dutchman · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
What is happening now in Chemitz is taking a crime and exploiting it for political purposes. A mob of hooligans running through the streets and attacking people of non German appearance is reminiscent of 30s Germany as the Nazis came to power.

German intelligence chief at odds with Angela Merkel as he says no evidence foreigners were attacked in Chemnitz

The head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service set off a major political row on Friday when he directly contradicted Angela Merkel over last week’s far-Right protests in Chemnitz.

Hans-Georg Maassen said he had seen was no evidence to support claims neo-Nazis had hunted foreigners through the streets during the protests.

That put him at odds with Mrs Merkel, the German chancellor, who spoke of video footage clearly showing “targetted harassment” and “hate on the streets”.

Video which appears to show non-Germans being attacked during the protests has been widely circulated on social media. But Mr Maassen said he believed the video could be a fake distributed as “targetted misinformation”.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

dutchman said:
German intelligence chief at odds with Angela Merkel as he says no evidence foreigners were attacked in Chemnitz

The head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service set off a major political row on Friday when he directly contradicted Angela Merkel over last week’s far-Right protests in Chemnitz.

Hans-Georg Maassen said he had seen was no evidence to support claims neo-Nazis had hunted foreigners through the streets during the protests.

That put him at odds with Mrs Merkel, the German chancellor, who spoke of video footage clearly showing “targetted harassment” and “hate on the streets”.

Video which appears to show non-Germans being attacked during the protests has been widely circulated on social media. But Mr Maassen said he believed the video could be a fake distributed as “targetted misinformation”.

Yes. He has been asked to provide evidence of his claims. He has yet to do that.

The public prosecutor‘s office in Dresden has checked the videos showing Nazis attacking dark skinned people and says there is no evidence of tampering. Some of the victims and witnesses have confirmed the videos.

Maasssen ( head of their special branch ) is already in trouble for advising Frauke Petry ( then head of AfD ) how to avoid being put under observation by the Verfassungsschutz ( special branch ). He is under pressure to resign and the SPD have asked for him to be sacked.

AfD have dropped their pretence of distancing themselves from the Nazis and marched together with known Nazis.

The biggest provocation for me, was Höcke ( AfD‘s worst bad boy ) next to Lutz Bachmann ( Pegida - previously burglar ) and others from the right, wearing the white rose as a symbol of resistance. That is the symbol of the students and young people in Munich who were against the Nazis and the futile war, particularly on the Eastern Front.. The Scholl siblings were executed for their part in the movement. They are a symbol of the humanistic resistance to the Nazi dictatorship. The AfD, Nazis and Pegida used the symbol to imply that they are the victims of the democratic state. A mockery and insult to the real victims of far right policies.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

dutchman said:
German intelligence chief at odds with Angela Merkel as he says no evidence foreigners were attacked in Chemnitz

The head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service set off a major political row on Friday when he directly contradicted Angela Merkel over last week’s far-Right protests in Chemnitz.

Hans-Georg Maassen said he had seen was no evidence to support claims neo-Nazis had hunted foreigners through the streets during the protests.

That put him at odds with Mrs Merkel, the German chancellor, who spoke of video footage clearly showing “targetted harassment” and “hate on the streets”.

Video which appears to show non-Germans being attacked during the protests has been widely circulated on social media. But Mr Maassen said he believed the video could be a fake distributed as “targetted misinformation”.

Just out of interest... the AfD and right wingers planned a large demonstration in Hamburg last week. 175 people turned up. 10000 protested against the demonstration. Surprised that you didn’t pick that up.

Hamburg: Gerade mal 175 Leute kommen zur Anti-Merkel-Demo - WELT

It would seem that they are hated in Hamburg. I know no one ( except the few known Kieler Nazis ) who supports the AfD in my area of Kiel. Seems that the people who lived under a dictatorship in the East would like to go back to one. Not a popular idea in the West which has far more migrants and people of a migrant background.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

dutchman said:
German intelligence chief at odds with Angela Merkel as he says no evidence foreigners were attacked in Chemnitz

The head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service set off a major political row on Friday when he directly contradicted Angela Merkel over last week’s far-Right protests in Chemnitz.

Hans-Georg Maassen said he had seen was no evidence to support claims neo-Nazis had hunted foreigners through the streets during the protests.

That put him at odds with Mrs Merkel, the German chancellor, who spoke of video footage clearly showing “targetted harassment” and “hate on the streets”.

Video which appears to show non-Germans being attacked during the protests has been widely circulated on social media. But Mr Maassen said he believed the video could be a fake distributed as “targetted misinformation”.

Kretschmar, State Minister President of Saxony, was informed about the attacks in Chemnitz and also tried to play them down. He is worried about the economic effects on his region through association with Nazis chasing people through the streets.

SPD-Anhänger widersprechen Maaßen: Es gab eine Hetzjagd in Chemnitz

skybluetony176 · Sep 9, 2018

dutchman said:
Irish border problem solved! :emoji_stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Not sure it will. Irexit freedom wants to leave the EU and join the EEA (the so called Norway option), pretty sure that means that the EU still has a control over your borders. Certainly there is still freedom of movement with the EU. Also only 11% of the Irish population back Irexit according to your link.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Not sure it will. Irexit freedom wants to leave the EU and join the EEA (the so called Norway option), pretty sure that means that the EU still has a control over your borders. Certainly there is still freedom of movement with the EU. Also only 11% of the Irish population back Irexit according to your link.

Hardly solved the border question if they were to go one way, Brexit Britain another way and Northern Ireland another way. Anyway, looks like a lot of „fun“ coming up

skybluetony176 · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
Hardly solved the border question if they were to go one way, Brexit Britain another way and Northern Ireland another way. Anyway, looks like a lot of „fun“ coming up

They’re a relatively new organisation but what they’ve said so far is quite refreshing in comparison to the brexit campaign and the one policy parties that promoted Brexit. For starters they talk about nett figures not gross figures and then silence allowing the uninformed and uneducated to make their own misunderstood conclusion as to what we actually pay. Secondly they actually seem to have an plan for what Irexit would look like, ie they have a clear agenda of joining the EEA if Ireland should leave the EU. It doesn’t look like they have support in the numbers that they need to achieve their aims but for now they at least seem to be taking a common sense, scare and bullshit free approach to their campaign. From what I’ve read anyway.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
They’re a relatively new organisation but what they’ve said so far is quite refreshing in comparison to the brexit campaign and the one policy parties that promoted Brexit. For starters they talk about nett figures not gross figures and then silence allowing the uninformed and uneducated to make their own misunderstood conclusion as to what we actually pay. Secondly they actually seem to have an plan for what Irexit would look like, ie they have a clear agenda of joining the EEA if Ireland should leave the EU. It doesn’t look like they have support in the numbers that they need to achieve their aims but for now they at least seem to be taking a common sense, scare and bullshit free approach to their campaign. From what I’ve read anyway.

Wait til Bannon’s organisation kicks in.

Astute · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
Just out of interest... the AfD and right wingers planned a large demonstration in Hamburg last week. 175 people turned up. 10000 protested against the demonstration. Surprised that you didn’t pick that up.

Hamburg: Gerade mal 175 Leute kommen zur Anti-Merkel-Demo - WELT

It would seem that they are hated in Hamburg. I know no one ( except the few known Kieler Nazis ) who supports the AfD in my area of Kiel. Seems that the people who lived under a dictatorship in the East would like to go back to one. Not a popular idea in the West which has far more migrants and people of a migrant background.

Why is it you always play down the AfD but make out that Farage is massive in the UK?

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

Astute said:
Why is it you always play down the AfD but make out that Farage is massive in the UK?

I repeat. The AfD is regional. I have always said that. 25% in Chemnitz, 6% in Schleswig-Holstein. People on here like to play it up. I like to put in perspective. Latest poll 14% throughout Germany.

Those are facts. You count it as playing it down.

Farage is not massive in the U.K., but he has disproportionate air time. He has his own show several days a week, the Daily Express is dedicated to pushing his line, he is constantly interviewed about EU matters and he is a regular contributor to Fox News inthronisiert States... that and other appearances are watched by a large audience on YouTube. He claims that YouTube gave him his platform as from 2008. He thinks it is important, before you say no one watches that.

Astute · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
I repeat. The AfD is regional. I have always said that. 25% in Chemnitz, 6% in Schleswig-Holstein. People on here like to play it up. I like to put in perspective. Latest poll 14% throughout Germany.

Those are facts. You count it as playing it down.

Farage is not massive in the U.K., but he has disproportionate air time. He has his own show several days a week, the Daily Express is dedicated to pushing his line, he is constantly interviewed about EU matters and he is a regular contributor to Fox News inthronisiert States... that and other appearances are watched by a large audience on YouTube. He claims that YouTube gave him his platform as from 2008. He thinks it is important, before you say no one watches that.

I can't remember the last time I saw him on any sort of media.

Does the AfD get any air time in Germany?

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

Astute said:
I can't remember the last time I saw him on any sort of media.

Does the AfD get any air time in Germany?

You must be very selective. I can’t avoid seeing him if I look at UK discussion sites or YouTube discussions.

The AfD uses the trick of saying provocative things to cause public discussion. They have marched alongside the ProChemnitz hooligans and Pegida ( which is led by extreme right wingers ) wearing white roses. So, yes, they get airtime but their support just dropped by 1% in one poll this week. They seem to be polarizing the country, with the West hating them more all the time, and getting sympathy in the East. I live in the West so I can confirm that they are not popular where I live.

Astute · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
You must be very selective. I can’t avoid seeing him if I look at UK discussion sites or YouTube discussions.

The AfD uses the trick of saying provocative things to cause public discussion. They have marched alongside the ProChemnitz hooligans and Pegida ( which is led by extreme right wingers ) wearing white roses. So, yes, they get airtime but their support just dropped by 1% in one poll this week. They seem to be polarizing the country, with the West hating them more all the time, and getting sympathy in the East. I live in the West so I can confirm that they are not popular where I live.

So you can't avoid him if you go looking for him?

If I go looking for the AfD I can find them easily. They are always in the news. And not normally for good reasons.

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

Astute said:
So you can't avoid him if you go looking for him?

If I go looking for the AfD I can find them easily. They are always in the news. And not normally for good reasons.

They have 96 MPs. Farage has none, but is always somewhere in the news. If AfD had 96 Farages there would be no other news.

Grendel · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
They have 96 MPs. Farage has none, but is always somewhere in the news. If AfD had 96 Farages there would be no other news.

Haven’t seen him in the news for months you clown

martcov · Sep 9, 2018

Grendel said:
Haven’t seen him in the news for months you clown

He is there all the time. Latest was that he should run for Mayor of London... you must be blind and deaf... (and a clown). I was talking to an IT specialist Friday who advises JLR. Says the business model of JLR is wholly dependent on supply chains and could be screwed by Brexit. Another expert who you will call out for „Brexit bluster“.

Grendel · Sep 9, 2018

martcov said:
He is there all the time. Latest was that he should run for Mayor of London... you must be blind and deaf... (and a clown). I was talking to an IT specialist Friday who advises JLR. Says the business model of JLR is wholly dependent on supply chains and could be screwed by Brexit. Another expert who you will call out for „Brexit bluster“.

JLR depends on something far more relevant than supply chains

Farage is a minor figure in politics and is irrelevant

dutchman · Sep 9, 2018

Sweden's nationalist party comes second place in elections - exit poll

A radical right wing group with a neo-Nazi past was set to become Sweden's second largest party on Sunday night, after exit polls suggested it had won nearly 20 per cent of the vote.

Sweden Democrats, which blames the country's recent surge in rapes, sexual assaults and riots on immigrants, came second place in Sunday's elections according to an exit poll by state broadcaster SVT.

The ruling centre-left Social Democrats were in the lead with 26.2 per cent of the votes, down from 31 per cent in the 2014 election and its lowest score in a century.

dutchman · Sep 9, 2018

Protesters march over German man's death

Far-right and opposition anti-fascist crowds have taken part in protests in Köthen in eastern Germany, where a German man earlier died following an alleged fight with Afghan men.

Police were deployed to help prevent violent clashes and the city's mayor had advised residents to stay at home.

The 22-year-old fight victim was said to have died of a heart problem not directly linked to his head injuries sustained in the incident.

Two Afghan suspects have been arrested.

Prosecutors said that a post-mortem examination suggested the victim, who reportedly intervened in an argument involving three Afghan men and a pregnant woman, did not die directly as result of the injuries he suffered when he fell and hit his head during the fight.

On Sunday, a crowd marched through the city and lit candles as a tribute the victim.

martcov · Sep 10, 2018

dutchman said:
Sweden's nationalist party comes second place in elections - exit poll

A radical right wing group with a neo-Nazi past was set to become Sweden's second largest party on Sunday night, after exit polls suggested it had won nearly 20 per cent of the vote.

Sweden Democrats, which blames the country's recent surge in rapes, sexual assaults and riots on immigrants, came second place in Sunday's elections according to an exit poll by state broadcaster SVT.

The ruling centre-left Social Democrats were in the lead with 26.2 per cent of the votes, down from 31 per cent in the 2014 election and its lowest score in a century.

Happy? Right wingers and Nazis getting more votes. You must be over the moon. Luckily it wasn’t as good as they hoped and despite everything, 80% of Seedea don’t want anything to do with them.

martcov · Sep 10, 2018

dutchman said:
Protesters march over German man's death

Far-right and opposition anti-fascist crowds have taken part in protests in Köthen in eastern Germany, where a German man earlier died following an alleged fight with Afghan men.

Police were deployed to help prevent violent clashes and the city's mayor had advised residents to stay at home.

The 22-year-old fight victim was said to have died of a heart problem not directly linked to his head injuries sustained in the incident.

Two Afghan suspects have been arrested.

Prosecutors said that a post-mortem examination suggested the victim, who reportedly intervened in an argument involving three Afghan men and a pregnant woman, did not die directly as result of the injuries he suffered when he fell and hit his head during the fight.

On Sunday, a crowd marched through the city and lit candles as a tribute the victim.

His brother is a well known right wing thug. Maybe he was similar. Maybe. We don’t know who started the fight. The original argument was about which Afghan had made the woman pregnant.

martcov · Sep 10, 2018

dutchman said:
German intelligence chief at odds with Angela Merkel as he says no evidence foreigners were attacked in Chemnitz

The head of Germany’s domestic intelligence service set off a major political row on Friday when he directly contradicted Angela Merkel over last week’s far-Right protests in Chemnitz.

Hans-Georg Maassen said he had seen was no evidence to support claims neo-Nazis had hunted foreigners through the streets during the protests.

That put him at odds with Mrs Merkel, the German chancellor, who spoke of video footage clearly showing “targetted harassment” and “hate on the streets”.

Video which appears to show non-Germans being attacked during the protests has been widely circulated on social media. But Mr Maassen said he believed the video could be a fake distributed as “targetted misinformation”.

The homeland minister, Seehofer, has given him until today to produce a report explaining his statement. Evidence backed.

Grendel · Sep 10, 2018

martcov said:
Happy? Right wingers and Nazis getting more votes. You must be over the moon. Luckily it wasn’t as good as they hoped and despite everything, 80% of Seedea don’t want anything to do with them.

I’ve not seen any forecasts that said they’d get more than 20% of the vote

Don’t tell me Steve Bannon has been skiing there recently spreading the word

martcov · Sep 10, 2018

Grendel said:
I’ve not seen any forecasts that said they’d get more than 20% of the vote

Don’t tell me Steve Bannon has been skiing there recently spreading the word

They were supposed to become 2. biggest party. They are third and didn’t get 20%.

martcov · Sep 10, 2018

dutchman said:
Protesters march over German man's death

Far-right and opposition anti-fascist crowds have taken part in protests in Köthen in eastern Germany, where a German man earlier died following an alleged fight with Afghan men.

Police were deployed to help prevent violent clashes and the city's mayor had advised residents to stay at home.

The 22-year-old fight victim was said to have died of a heart problem not directly linked to his head injuries sustained in the incident.

Two Afghan suspects have been arrested.

Prosecutors said that a post-mortem examination suggested the victim, who reportedly intervened in an argument involving three Afghan men and a pregnant woman, did not die directly as result of the injuries he suffered when he fell and hit his head during the fight.

On Sunday, a crowd marched through the city and lit candles as a tribute the victim.

No messing about now. They are saying „National Socialism now“ and chanting „Free, Social and National“.

This is what follows when parties like AfD start becoming popular. The tabus are broken and the language of debate changes. The Thürgida ( off shoot of Tommy‘s mate‘s Pegida ) leaders are calling for an for an eye for an eye. Which means people of colour are going to get a kicking whether they have attacked a German or not.
German far-right rally hears calls for violence against foreigners - CNN

dutchman · Sep 10, 2018

martcov said:
Happy? Right wingers and Nazis getting more votes. You must be over the moon. Luckily it wasn’t as good as they hoped and despite everything, 80% of Seedea don’t want anything to do with them.

Anything which hastens the end of the EU is good.

Captain Dart · Sep 10, 2018

I read that 175 seats are needed to form a government and the centre bloc has 143 seats and the left wing bloc has144 seats so if the Swedish Democrats are excluded something has to give.

Whatever happens it will probably be a weak government with too many compromises to get a deal.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (159 Viewers)

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