The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

[martcov]

So Iceland could catch enough fish for the whole of the EU? And if dependent on just Iceland the price wouldn't go up?

So are you now saying that the EU won't buy anything from us?

No. You asked about where people get fish from. Iceland is an example, but price plays a role as does the type of fish. The rest is you putting words in my mouth... as usual.

 

---

[Astute]

A lot of the fish that is imported due to UK tastes and a lot of exported as it's more popular in other EU countries. As usual your rabid hatred for the EU blinds you to that.

Come on then. Show us some evidence that is real for once.

 

[Grendel]

You are answering the wrong poster. I said YouGov said more people think that we made the wrong decision in leaving. Which is in your own link.

No they didn’t

 

[Astute]

No. You asked about where people get fish from. Iceland is an example, but price plays a role as does the type of fish. The rest is you putting words in my mouth... as usual.

Putting words in your mouth? Not at all. It is replying to the words you have come out with.

You try to put a bias on everything. I just point out your bias.

 

[Sick Boy]

Come on then. Show us some evidence that is real for once.

You are able to your own research. Do you genuinely believe that the UK''s tastes in fish are reflective of the fish in its local waters?

 

[martcov]

And most people....more than voted leave.....still want Brexit to happen.

Want? Or accept that we have to go through with it? Or can’t be arsed to have another referendum? As more think it was a mistake to vote leave, it hardly shows enthusiasm for leave, more a grudging acceptance.

 

[martcov]

Putting words in your mouth? Not at all. It is replying to the words you have come out with.

You try to put a bias on everything. I just point out your bias.

You asked a question. I suggested an answer. You say that is bias.

 

[Grendel]

You are able to your own research. Do you genuinely believe that the UK''s tastes in fish are reflective of the fish in its local waters?

Isn’t our biggest export mackerel?

 

[skybluetony176]

How much fish is imported from other EU countries to the UK due to the country's tastes?

Not just for U.K. tastes, for processing also. The U.K. has become one of the major centres in the EU for fish processing. If tariffs are applied to those fish as the come in and then go out again the issues for the fish processing industry in the U.K. are obvious. We’re also a major exporter of shellfish to the EU, 85% of everything British fishermen catch. Again if tariffs are applied the issues are obvious.

I stand by my previous statement that the EU’s common fisheries policy is mental but fishing rights and the fishing industry effects of Brexit is almost as complicated as the Irish border issues.

Norway has used fishing rights as a bargaining chip for access to other markets. EU boats can fish in Norwegian waters, Norwegian boats in the same waters don’t obey the EU quota system and have their own land what you catch no discarding policy (so the Tuna fish in captains link wouldn’t have been destroyed) but the access to waters is a trade off for access into the EU for fish caught by the Norwegian fleet. Interestingly not processed fish though just whole fish. Processed fish are subject to Tariffs. This has allowed the processing industry to grow in places like the U.K. Denmark and Holland. In Norway fishing is still a cornerstone of the Norwegian economy. In the U.K. it isn’t, in fact the processing industry is bigger.

It’s going to be controversial but the right thing for the government to do you could argue is protect the processing industry rather than the fishing industry as a priority. That is going to mean a trade off surrounding fishing rights. There could be a very high price for sovereignty of our waters. A price that could be at the expense of the processing industry and actually may not offer any bonus to the fishing industry either. If tariffs are applied to the fish they catch then the price that fish are sold to the EU is going to be cut to counter the tariffs. The fishermen might actually be worse off and the fishing industry might be at greater risk of decline. Unless of course British tastes change to accommodate the what the British fleet is catching.

Very very complicated situation.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sajid Javid says no deal would be opportunity for 'tax incentives' and attracting global talent

Britain should respond to a no-deal Brexit with tax cuts, increased spending on infrastructure and policies that will draw “global talent” to the country, Sajid Javid has suggested.

The Home Secretary told a specially convened Cabinet meeting last week that the Government should introduce new “tax incentives”, thought to include targeted cuts, to help the economy withstand the effects of leaving the EU without an agreement.

The intervention, seen as a rebuke of Philip Hammond’s insistence the Treasury could not afford tax cuts, will be welcomed by senior Brexiteers who have urged the Chancellor to prepare radical reforms of the economy to take advantage of the “opportunities” of Brexit.

The Junker critics will have a meltdown if this happens. Or maybe not. Cough cough hypocrites cough cough

 

[Sick Boy]

The Junker critics will have a meltdown if this happens. Or maybe not. Cough cough hypocrites cough cough

Hahaha someone's internet connection must have been broken so it got missed.

 

[skybluetony176]

So if we gained our fishing rights back and the vast majority of fish caught by the other EU boats in our water was outlawed where would they get their fish from?

Certainly not from us you say.......

But in the real world....

As has been said several times before we sell more to the rest of the world than to the EU. And that is even with the restrictions that being part of the EU has on us. The EU sells much more to us than we sell to them. That means nothing you say. So they won't buy fish from us that they can't catch themselves? Get real.

They also wouldn’t get their processed fish from us, which is a bigger industry in the U.K. than fishing itself. How do you intend to replace the jobs in that industry if they lose free access to their biggest market? Holland and Denmark are salivating at the prospect of this happening.

 

[skybluetony176]

As you can't understand what you read I will help you. This is the link from the Guardian from earlier.

'We have been hijacked': fishermen feel used over Brexit

And here is a part of it that you can't twist in any way.


For Delahunty’s entire career, a lopsided system of quotas has granted up to 84% of the rights to fish some local species, such as English Channel cod, to the French, and left as little as 9% to British boats.

You do realise that the article you have linked just confirms that fishing rights was just another leave lie? You only have to look at Norway or Iceland to see that fishing rights was always going to be used as a bargaining chip in brexit negotiations.

 

[skybluetony176]

Luckily we had a prominent UKIP MEP on the fisheries commission fighting tirelessly for our fishing rights.

And yes, fishing quotas have been discredited. No one says the present system is good.

He didn’t even bother turning up did he?

 

[skybluetony176]

So Iceland could catch enough fish for the whole of the EU? And if dependent on just Iceland the price wouldn't go up?

So are you now saying that the EU won't buy anything from us?

Of course they’ll buy from us. If the price is right. If a tariff is added to the price it won’t be right so who’s going to take the hit on it? The EU consumer with their choice to buy something else that doesn’t include a tariff (I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the EU don’t seem to be as fussy eaters as us when it comes to fish)? Do you think an EU consumer is going to pay extra for a can of fish just because it came from the U.K.? Or the British fishermen by lowering their selling price to accommodate the tariffs?

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn’t our biggest export mackerel?

Salmon isn’t it? From fish farming, or is it just the fastest growing? Can’t quite remember to be honest.

 

[Astute]

You are able to your own research. Do you genuinely believe that the UK''s tastes in fish are reflective of the fish in its local waters?

So you are now saying that our favourite fish are not caught in our own water by mainly boats from other EU countries?

Why don't you show evidence to false claims you make?

 

[Astute]

Not just for U.K. tastes, for processing also. The U.K. has become one of the major centres in the EU for fish processing. If tariffs are applied to those fish as the come in and then go out again the issues for the fish processing industry in the U.K. are obvious. We’re also a major exporter of shellfish to the EU, 85% of everything British fishermen catch. Again if tariffs are applied the issues are obvious.

I stand by my previous statement that the EU’s common fisheries policy is mental but fishing rights and the fishing industry effects of Brexit is almost as complicated as the Irish border issues.

Norway has used fishing rights as a bargaining chip for access to other markets. EU boats can fish in Norwegian waters, Norwegian boats in the same waters don’t obey the EU quota system and have their own land what you catch no discarding policy (so the Tuna fish in captains link wouldn’t have been destroyed) but the access to waters is a trade off for access into the EU for fish caught by the Norwegian fleet. Interestingly not processed fish though just whole fish. Processed fish are subject to Tariffs. This has allowed the processing industry to grow in places like the U.K. Denmark and Holland. In Norway fishing is still a cornerstone of the Norwegian economy. In the U.K. it isn’t, in fact the processing industry is bigger.

It’s going to be controversial but the right thing for the government to do you could argue is protect the processing industry rather than the fishing industry as a priority. That is going to mean a trade off surrounding fishing rights. There could be a very high price for sovereignty of our waters. A price that could be at the expense of the processing industry and actually may not offer any bonus to the fishing industry either. If tariffs are applied to the fish they catch then the price that fish are sold to the EU is going to be cut to counter the tariffs. The fishermen might actually be worse off and the fishing industry might be at greater risk of decline. Unless of course British tastes change to accommodate the what the British fleet is catching.

Very very complicated situation.

We have to catch shellfish as we are not allowed to catch species like Cod in our own water.

Yet another one who has a problem reading the truth and understanding it.

 

[Astute]

The Junker critics will have a meltdown if this happens. Or maybe not. Cough cough hypocrites cough cough

So why is that?

Reducing tax payable is not dodging tax. We have to keep to EU rules....Even though the EU itself doesn't keep to them.....to protect EU producers. This isn't tax avoidance like what Juncker designed and is heavily defended on here for.

But let's twist the truth to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

 

[Astute]

They also wouldn’t get their processed fish from us, which is a bigger industry in the U.K. than fishing itself. How do you intend to replace the jobs in that industry if they lose free access to their biggest market? Holland and Denmark are salivating at the prospect of this happening.

Replace fishing jobs that would be lost?

You are absolutely clueless or lying.

The jobs have already been lost. Our fishing fleet got decimated by EU rules. We have to import fish from the EU as we are not even allowed to catch our own fish. So if we are ever allowed to catch our own fish we will need lots more fishermen.

So why won't the EU buy fish from us?

Could be time to buy from anywhere but the EU if that is the way it would be. And cars can be first. Sounds like that would make you happy.

 

[Astute]

You do realise that the article you have linked just confirms that fishing rights was just another leave lie? You only have to look at Norway or Iceland to see that fishing rights was always going to be used as a bargaining chip in brexit negotiations.

Point it out then. So us only being able to catch 9% of fish in our water confirmed what to you?

 

[Astute]

Of course they’ll buy from us. If the price is right. If a tariff is added to the price it won’t be right so who’s going to take the hit on it? The EU consumer with their choice to buy something else that doesn’t include a tariff (I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the EU don’t seem to be as fussy eaters as us when it comes to fish)? Do you think an EU consumer is going to pay extra for a can of fish just because it came from the U.K.? Or the British fishermen by lowering their selling price to accommodate the tariffs?

So why does the EU protect fishing in our water if they don't need the fish?

Yes it is all down to tariffs. Not just fish. If we can buy cheaper we will. But you only see it one way.

Only an idiot would say that trade deals would benefit both sides. Yet some say that only one side wants a deal.

I still say that hard ball tactics will end. The date is getting closer. And the noise from the EU has been going towards a deal. Otherwise other countries in the EU would be in uproar by now. It is messing with millions of jobs elsewhere in the EU as well as here. But some on here only want to mention it on one side.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you are now saying that our favourite fish are not caught in our own water by mainly boats from other EU countries?

Why don't you show evidence to false claims you make?

Have you ever heard of the cod wars? Look it up. It will tell that our favourite fish are not always caught in our own waters by our own boats.

 

[skybluetony176]

We have to catch shellfish as we are not allowed to catch species like Cod in our own water.

Yet another one who has a problem reading the truth and understanding it.

We catch shellfish because our seas have an abundance of them and the EU is a very profitable market. Are you suggesting that the fishermen catching shellfish (completely different process to catching Cod) are going to stop and change to Cod fishing once we leave the EU? The shellfish fishing industry is under threat as much by a no deal brexit as the fish processing industry. Like I said. A complicated situation.

 

[skybluetony176]

So why is that?

Reducing tax payable is not dodging tax. We have to keep to EU rules....Even though the EU itself doesn't keep to them.....to protect EU producers. This isn't tax avoidance like what Juncker designed and is heavily defended on here for.

But let's twist the truth to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

Ha ha ha. Classic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think the point is that we HAVE to import it because our fishermen have EU quotas that prevent them fulfilling the demand here at home.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

The demand doesn't exist. Even on the coast the most ubiquitous fish is cod or haddock

 

[skybluetony176]

Replace fishing jobs that would be lost?

You are absolutely clueless or lying.

The jobs have already been lost. Our fishing fleet got decimated by EU rules. We have to import fish from the EU as we are not even allowed to catch our own fish. So if we are ever allowed to catch our own fish we will need lots more fishermen.

So why won't the EU buy fish from us?

Could be time to buy from anywhere but the EU if that is the way it would be. And cars can be first. Sounds like that would make you happy.

Mmm. OK. Who are we going to sell all these extra fish that all these extra fleets are going to catch to exactly?

Every new car I’ve ever bought has been either from a U.K. manufacturer or made in the U.K. it doesn’t take brexit to make this remainer loyal to U.K. jobs. I stopped buying HP sauce when they moved production to the EU. Funnily enough of all my vocal leave friends the most vocal buys a new Mercedes every three years and still has HP in his cupboard.

So anyway because jobs have already been lost don’t you think the government should do everything it can to protect the rest? Isn’t that what governments are supposed to do.

 

[skybluetony176]

Point it out then. So us only being able to catch 9% of fish in our water confirmed what to you?

Because as the article points out fishing rights are being used as a bargaining chip and that was only ever going to be the case. The article is pretty clear about that.

 

[skybluetony176]

So why does the EU protect fishing in our water if they don't need the fish?

Yes it is all down to tariffs. Not just fish. If we can buy cheaper we will. But you only see it one way.

Only an idiot would say that trade deals would benefit both sides. Yet some say that only one side wants a deal.

I still say that hard ball tactics will end. The date is getting closer. And the noise from the EU has been going towards a deal. Otherwise other countries in the EU would be in uproar by now. It is messing with millions of jobs elsewhere in the EU as well as here. But some on here only want to mention it on one side.

The EU’s tastes are more varied than ours. They’ll just change their eating habits if they have to. Plus as already pointed out most of the fish we supply the EU is processed and a lot of the whole fish for processing comes from Norway. What makes you think that Norway won’t just sell more fish to the EU processing plants instead of the U.K.? You seem to think that the EU will lose availability to the fish coming out of the U.K. Not necessarily the case, there’s more than one way to skin a fish.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ukip is wrong: British fishing answers to Westminster not Brussels | John Lichfield

Interesting article from someone who understands it very well and been involved in it for decades. Through the Cod wars and the birth of the CFP. Again shows a leave lie.

 

[Ashdown]

House prices are going to collapse, unemployment will rocket, the stock market will implode, the pound will disintegrate, great storms will descend from the Atlantic and sink the entire land mass...........It has to be true, Vince Cable, Tony Blair and Mark Carney all said so !!.........................Oh and the fish will just turn round and swim into foreign waters anyway, so that will teach us !

 

[chiefdave]

Once out of the EU we will get our water back. Then we can catch our own fish again....just like we used to.

Except we have no plans to change the system post-Brexit.
“We do not intend to change the method for allocating existing quota.”
Fisheries white paper: sustainable fisheries for future generations

And one of the biggest problems for our own fishermen, that 61% of our quota is allocated to just 3 companies (one of which is Dutch owned contributing to 44% of our quote we give away to foreign fishermen). That's nothing to do with the EU.

And what we can catch seem to bare little resemblance to what we import. For example we export 116K tonnes of salmon at £4.69 per kg while importing 90K tonnes of salmon at £5.24 per kg. However if you look at popular fish such as cod, tuna and haddock the imports dwarf the exports.

 

[Grendel]

House prices are going to collapse, unemployment will rocket, the stock market will implode, the pound will disintegrate, great storms will descend from the Atlantic and sink the entire land mass...........It has to be true, Vince Cable, Tony Blair and Mark Carney all said so !!.........................Oh and the fish will just turn round and swim into foreign waters anyway, so that will teach us !

Nicholas clegg also says it’s true just to add gravitas to the theory

 

[Astute]

Have you ever heard of the cod wars? Look it up. It will tell that our favourite fish are not always caught in our own waters by our own boats.

OMG.

The cod wars were years ago. Since then the EU took our fishing rights away from us and gave them to other countries in the EU. But you know this.

 

[Astute]

We catch shellfish because our seas have an abundance of them and the EU is a very profitable market. Are you suggesting that the fishermen catching shellfish (completely different process to catching Cod) are going to stop and change to Cod fishing once we leave the EU? The shellfish fishing industry is under threat as much by a no deal brexit as the fish processing industry. Like I said. A complicated situation.

We fish for shellfish because we can't fish for anything else. Our quota from the EU is negligible to what we need. But instead of having what should be ours we o lying have a few miles which is still ours. This is where the shellfish are.

But you know this.