The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (198 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza · Sep 26, 2018

Although nothing is certain still this is an interesting repeat survey...which ironically goes to show how futile they are in many cases.

"Exclusive: With six months to go before Brexit, 630 finance jobs have left - Reuters survey" - Exclusive: With six months to go before Brexit, 630 finance jobs have left - Reuters survey | Reuters

This is the reality so far...HSBC, which has publicly said up to 1,000 jobs could move to Paris, has so far not moved any staff, a source at the bank told Reuters as part of the survey. Royal Bank of Scotland, which expects to move 150 to Amsterdam, also has not moved any employees, an RBS source said...a great example of what has so far been shown to be pure rhetoric. Time will tell I guess?

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martcov · Sep 26, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Health groups dismayed by news 'big tobacco' funded rightwing thinktanks

Basically it’s from the same think tank that thinks like this

View attachment 10591

Now May is promising to reduce corporation tax to keep investment coming. Will that increase revenue or merely make up for some of the lost investment because we are no longer a gateway to the EU? A previous sales point for investment in the UK. If we lose net tax revenue, then that would be the end of our „Brexit bonus“.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Although nothing is certain still this is an interesting repeat survey...which ironically goes to show how futile they are in many cases.

"Exclusive: With six months to go before Brexit, 630 finance jobs have left - Reuters survey" - Exclusive: With six months to go before Brexit, 630 finance jobs have left - Reuters survey | Reuters

This is the reality so far...HSBC, which has publicly said up to 1,000 jobs could move to Paris, has so far not moved any staff, a source at the bank told Reuters as part of the survey. Royal Bank of Scotland, which expects to move 150 to Amsterdam, also has not moved any employees, an RBS source said...a great example of what has so far been shown to be pure rhetoric. Time will tell I guess?

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Always read the last paragraph.

„Nearly all of those surveyed said they are moving as few people as possible, hoping for a last-minute political deal that protects access to the EU’s $19.7 trillion-a-year economy after Britain leaves the bloc.“

Captain Dart · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
There is generally a workable solution if both sides desire one.

That is the key, the EU are being deliberately obstructive. It is appalling behaviour.
If there was no real option to leave the EU the article 50 should not have been included in European Law.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
That is the key, the EU are being deliberately obstructive. It is appalling behaviour.
If there was no real option to leave the EU the article 50 should not have been included in European Law.

In what way? They have their red lines agreed by 27 countries. Those of the rules of the SM and CU. They are not going to change the rules for a third country. That is not obstructive. Why should they? We voted for Brexit. That’s it. It is no surprise that the EU sticks to the 4 freedoms. The U.K. is allowed to leave. No one is stopping them. We have triggered article 50 and are leaving. I don’t see your point. It is the usual Brexit crap. Blame the EU rather than admit Brexit is a mistake. Surprised you didn’t mention the dodgy appointment of an EU civil servant.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
There is generally a workable solution if both sides desire one

And that would be? Have you solved the Irish problem yet? Taking back control of borders, but not the only land border we have.

Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
That is the key, the EU are being deliberately obstructive. It is appalling behaviour.
If there was no real option to leave the EU the article 50 should not have been included in European Law.

No it's not, it's behaving in its best interests. Plenty were led to believe and still maintain that the UK has the upper-hand in negotiations but the reality is that it can't throw its weight around and pick and choose.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
No it's not, it's behaving in its best interests. Plenty were led to believe and still maintain that the UK has the upper-hand in negotiations but the reality is that it can't throw its weight around and pick and choose.

Best interests of the EU machine...& basically trying to demonstrate that leaving is unacceptable by its behaviours. Thereby denying it's citizens the freedom to leave, because it is telling them what is good for them...which is not leaving the EU. Could turn out to be dangerous ground if Britain thrives.

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Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Best interests of the EU machine...& basically trying to demonstrate that leaving is unacceptable by its behaviours. Thereby denying it's citizens the freedom to leave, because it is telling them what is good for them...which is not leaving the EU. Could turn out to be dangerous ground if Britain thrives.

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It's not denying Britain the chance to leave at all, it's just been shown to have more clout that the UK to what many claimed.

Captain Dart · Sep 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
It's not denying Britain the chance to leave at all, it's just been shown to have more clout that the UK to what many claimed.

They're trying very hard to force a reversal of the decision. They won't.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Best interests of the EU machine...& basically trying to demonstrate that leaving is unacceptable by its behaviours. Thereby denying it's citizens the freedom to leave, because it is telling them what is good for them...which is not leaving the EU. Could turn out to be dangerous ground if Britain thrives.

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Stop making stupid excuses for your stupid Brexit. The EU is calm and collected, United in it‘s negotiating position. Look at Britain. A mess. Both major parties split. Various views of how we should be negotiating on a subject which is interpreted differently by the people who voted for it.

You just spew Faragist cliches about „schackles“, „EU machine“ , the EU „denying it’s citizens to leave“. Pure crap, and you suggested that someone was a thick twat for not getting the crap you were going on about?

Now... tell us what your workable solution to the Brexit problem is, bearing in mind May‘s red lines, the GFA and the EU‘s rules of the SM and CU. If it’s good, email it to May. If it isn’t, then you have proved Brexit is a stupid idea.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
They're trying very hard to force a reversal of the decision. They won't.

How are they doing that? Presenting the known facts?

SkyblueBazza · Sep 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
It's not denying Britain the chance to leave at all, it's just been shown to have more clout that the UK to what many claimed.

I didn't say Britain. They are using Britain as an example to deter others leaving. If that means a hard time for many of it's own citizens - the EUrocrats are basically not giving a toss. They simply want to try to punish anyone & everyone rather than spoil their own select party.

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skybluetony176 · Sep 26, 2018

Astute said:
Isn't it strange that those involved in the worse scandals love the EU.........

...and the ones who have been found guilty of breaking the law at the expense of the British taxpayer and sent to prison all support leave.

Just confirms what I’ve been saying all along doesn’t it? They’re all as bad as each other regardless of what EU country that they’re from and what their politics are. Still, at least you’re acknowledging that it’s not just the EU political institution who only does the dodgy things. We’ll call that progress.

skybluetony176 · Sep 26, 2018

Astute said:
Says the person who voted UKIP

You’ve really lost the argument at this point.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
If that means a hard time for many of it's own citizens - the EUrocrats are basically not giving a toss. They simply want to try to punish anyone & everyone rather than spoil their own select party.

Gets worse. Is Farage writing this parrot‘s posts?

SIR ERNIE · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Best interests of the EU machine...& basically trying to demonstrate that leaving is unacceptable by its behaviours. Thereby denying it's citizens the freedom to leave, because it is telling them what is good for them...which is not leaving the EU. Could turn out to be dangerous ground if Britain thrives.

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Correct. The leave vote shocked them to their arrogant core and I suspect that any belief they had that they could overturn the result is quickly evaporating too. Maybe it's finally sinking in that the more they play their obstructive, stonewalling games, the stronger the resolve to leave becomes. The Salzburg antics of the pathetic Tusk, Macron and others will have convinced many remainers that we should get on with it and get out.

And yes you're right that their very worst nightmare would be a thriving, successful post-Brexit Britain. That would open the floodgates.

Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
I didn't say Britain. They are using Britain as an example to deter others leaving. If that means a hard time for many of it's own citizens - the EUrocrats are basically not giving a toss. They simply want to try to punish anyone & everyone rather than spoil their own select party.

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It's an agreed position by the 27 leaders. Not sure why some seemed to believe the EU would roll over and give into the UK's demands.

When we had the likes of Davis thinking the UK could make trade deals with individual countries, is it really such a surprise things haven't worked out how we hoped?

rob9872 · Sep 26, 2018

Ok I've made a it clear I voted leave, I get that others including many on this thread disagree and think I'm wrong. What I still can't get my head around is why all of these discussions and petty point scoring (on both sides) are still taking place. If it's happening and whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, why isn't everyone putting all of their energy into trying to make it the best most workable deal we can achieve, instead of constantly looking to derail it for political gain? I'm certain many people actually want it to fail so that they can say "I told you so" which seems a bizarre approach to me. I'm also convinced that if the EU know half the country don't embrace the decision they'll surely push back even harder.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Correct. The leave vote shocked them to their arrogant core and I suspect that any belief they had that they could overturn the result is quickly evaporating too. Maybe it's finally sinking in that the more they play their obstructive, stonewalling games, the stronger the resolve to leave becomes. The Salzburg antics of the pathetic Tusk, Macron and others will have convinced many remainers that we should get on with it and get out.

And yes you're right that their very worst nightmare would be a thriving, successful post-Brexit Britain. That would open the floodgates.

Salzburg was May‘s disaster. To turn up with a plan that she had been told several times wouldn’t work and say that is all that’s on the table, was an absolute insult to the 27 sovereign countries that had to listen to her.

There won’t be a successful Britain in the short term. Although we are already making our special offers of 17% corporation tax and deregulation to save what we can after the Brexodus starts.

Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2018

rob9872 said:
Ok I've made a it clear I voted leave, I get that others including many on this thread disagree and think I'm wrong. What I still can't get my head around is why all of these discussions and petty point scoring (on both sides) are still taking place. If it's happening and whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, why isn't everyone putting all of their energy into trying to make it the best most workable deal we can achieve, instead of constantly looking to derail it for political gain? I'm certain many people actually want it to fail so that they can say "I told you so" which seems a bizarre approach to me. I'm also convinced that if the EU know half the country don't embrace the decision they'll surely push back even harder.

I think it is because it's such a passionate topic and important to voters on both sides. It's also two pretty much polarised views. It will continue for a very, very long time IMO and I am not sure how or when the country will ever repair itself.

I don't think anyone wants the country to fail and put its future at stake.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

rob9872 said:
Ok I've made a it clear I voted leave, I get that others including many on this thread disagree and think I'm wrong. What I still can't get my head around is why all of these discussions and petty point scoring (on both sides) are still taking place. If it's happening and whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, why isn't everyone putting all of their energy into trying to make it the best most workable deal we can achieve, instead of constantly looking to derail it for political gain? I'm certain many people actually want it to fail so that they can say "I told you so" which seems a bizarre approach to me. I'm also convinced that if the EU know half the country don't embrace the decision they'll surely push back even harder.

It’s not that people want it to fail, it is more that it is hard to see how we will be better off... at least in the short term. There will be costs to this experiment. When people like Rees Mogg want to scrap all tariffs and regulatory hurdles on day one, then the direction is a free for all and the collapse of our existing structures. He claims we will be booming in 50 years time and has opened investment funds in the Eurozone for the time being. No one has answered the Irish border question yet. Or how we will get the benefits of the SM without being in it. There is no agreed plan and all the major questions have yet to be answered. If we remain we know what we have and can work on improving that. Simplest and, as far as we can see, the least risky option. The EU can see this and see that half the country doesn’t want to leave. Yes, they are in no hurry for a deal. The longer this goes on, the more likely we stay. Hope we do stay.

clint van damme · Sep 26, 2018

martcov said:
It’s not that people want it to fail, it is more that it is hard to see how we will be better off... at least in the short term. There will be costs to this experiment. When people like Rees Mogg want to scrap all tariffs and regulatory hurdles on day one, then the direction is a free for all and the collapse of our existing structures. He claims we will be booming in 50 years time and has opened investment funds in the Eurozone for the time being. No one has answered the Irish border question yet. Or how we will get the benefits of the SM without being in it. There is no agreed plan and all the major questions have yet to be answered. If we remain we know what we have and can work on improving that. Simplest and, as far as we can see, the least risky option. The EU can see this and see that half the country doesn’t want to leave. Yes, they are in no hurry for a deal. The longer this goes on, the more likely we stay. Hope we do stay.

we can scrap our tariffs on imports from day one but it will be pretty much impossible for other countries to reciprocate, the man is a fool.
And why would you scrap tariffs on say lamb, when it would fuck up our lamb farmers. That's why deals are structured in a certain way.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

clint van damme said:
we can scrap our tariffs on imports from day one but it will be pretty much impossible for other countries to reciprocate, the man is a fool.
And why would you scrap tariffs on say lamb, when it would fuck up our lamb farmers. That's why deals are structured in a certain way.

Bear in mind the man has invested billions of his and his investors money, through a company that he formed and for which he still works one day a week, in emerging markets rather than Brexit Britain. If tariffs and regulations were scrapped, Britain would be a great market for emerging countries. His Irish, Eurozone investors would be instantly better off if the pound were to collapse. A win win situation. For Rees Mogg and other speculators, handily dodging any scrutiny from EU tax haven regulations.

Captain Dart · Sep 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
I think it is because it's such a passionate topic and important to voters on both sides. It's also two pretty much polarised views. It will continue for a very, very long time IMO and I am not sure how or when the country will ever repair itself.

I don't think anyone wants the country to fail and put its future at stake.

TBF I'm not so sure about mart.

Grappa · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
TBF I'm not so sure about mart.

So you think he spends his time on here arguing against brexit because he wants the country to fail? Surely, logically, if he thinks brexit is going to damage the country wouldn't he just support brexit if he wanted the uk to fail?

Idiot.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

Grappa said:
So you think he spends his time on here arguing against brexit because he wants the country to fail? Surely, logically, if he thinks brexit is going to damage the country wouldn't he just support brexit if he wanted the uk to fail?

Idiot.

Yes, very well put. I am convinced the UK will lose out through Brexit. I could be wrong of course. I want Britain to carry on being a strong economy as we have been in the last couple of years. That would carry on in the EU. People apparently voted to curb immigration and for sovereignty ( which we have always had ), not primarily for economic reasons as the country was doing well - better than most. I am for continuation as I don’t see what „sovereignty“ we gain, and I don’t think immigration will continue at high levels as the Eastern countries‘ wage levels carry on improving.

Captain Dart · Sep 26, 2018

Grappa said:
So you think he spends his time on here arguing against brexit because he wants the country to fail? Surely, logically, if he thinks brexit is going to damage the country wouldn't he just support brexit if he wanted the uk to fail?

Idiot.

No. He wants Brexit to fail in hope he'll be able to say 'told you so'.

I'm willing to bet he will be all over any little difficulty after we leave to put forward his view its a disaster, regardless of its true significance.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 26, 2018

Sick Boy said:
It's an agreed position by the 27 leaders. Not sure why some seemed to believe the EU would roll over and give into the UK's demands.

When we had the likes of Davis thinking the UK could make trade deals with individual countries, is it really such a surprise things haven't worked out how we hoped?

Yes...agreed position. Ignore what the people want - this is what they are going to get!

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SkyblueBazza · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
No. He wants Brexit to fail in hope he'll be able to say 'told you so'.

I'm willing to bet he will be all over any little difficulty after we leave to put forward his view its a disaster, regardless of its true significance.

He wants to have is cake and eat it...& eat yours too! The arguments he seizes upon are just designed to support his own end

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martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Yes...agreed position. Ignore what the people want - this is what they are going to get!

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For god‘s sake. An agreed position to protect the SM and CU which 440 million EU citizens want to continue benefiting from ( as do at least half of UK citizens).

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
He wants to have is cake and eat it...& eat yours too! The arguments he seizes upon are just designed to support his own end

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Crazy talk from a weirdo.

martcov · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
No. He wants Brexit to fail in hope he'll be able to say 'told you so'.

I'm willing to bet he will be all over any little difficulty after we leave to put forward his view its a disaster, regardless of its true significance.

Well to make matters easier: I‘ll say I told you so now. It has been proven to be a mess. We haven’t left yet, but the writing’s on the wall.

„Little difficulty“ ROFL. We haven’t even got the basics settled over 2 years on. Wait until we leave.

I predicted a mess. It is a mess. It is likely to get worse before it, maybe, gets better. There was no desperate economic reason to leave. Any problems which now come along will probably be caused by Brexit ( or possibly Trump‘s elephant in a China shop policies).

But, it is a classic „blame the remainer‘ attitude. I didn’t want it. I didn’t want to have to say it is a mess. I am not gloating as I hope that common sense prevails and we withdraw article 50 asap.

Blame Juncker, blame Selmayr, blame remainers, blame Barnier, blame Macron, blame everyone in the EU.... but, at the end of the day ... the blame for this mess lies with the Brexit culprits. Not MartCov or the people I have mentioned.

Sick Boy · Sep 26, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
Yes...agreed position. Ignore what the people want - this is what they are going to get!

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There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the citizens of Europe are desperate to roll over and give a deal that is advantageous to the UK.

Grappa · Sep 26, 2018

Captain Dart said:
No. He wants Brexit to fail in hope he'll be able to say 'told you so'.

I'm willing to bet he will be all over any little difficulty after we leave to put forward his view its a disaster, regardless of its true significance.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (198 Viewers)

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