The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (35 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Haven’t had chance to read them in detail and won’t until tomorrow now but after a quick scan I can already see some of its out of date especially regarding trade. For instance it’s been confirmed that India is more interested in doing a deal with the EU than us as apparently we’ve always been the stumbling block in EU/India trade negotiations as we’ve always vetoed the relaxation of Visas into the EU, something also confirmed by India that relaxation of the visa rules would have to be part of any post brexit U.K./India trade deal. Then there’s the bit about trade with the UAE. The EU was confirmed this year as the GCC’s biggest trading partner.

A lot has happened since 2017 and especially January 2017 (that’s fastly approaching 2 years). I would suggest that at first glance the articles you’ve linked are out of date. They also seem to be based again on largely rhetoric rather than anything tangible.

Yeah well...I just chose the top 2 or 3 of sources I'd heard of given what I searched. Maybe you should delve into the positives for more recent stuff if you want them. I am as happy with thoughts as they stand as you seem with yours. We just beg to differ I guess

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[skybluetony176]

Like the sustained economic growth when the uk plunged into the ERM and interest rates climbed to 15%?

That’s not true either. It was the year before that interest rates climbed to 15%. They dropped to 14% the month we joined and continued to fall to 7% when we left the ERM two years later.

 

[Astute]

If there was a plan by the leave campaign in place that demonstrated that the UK would have sustained and stable economic growth, then I would have voted for it. There wasn't and still isn't - why take the risk of leaping into the unknown? It makes no sense.

It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.

 

[Grendel]

That’s not true either. It was the year before that interest rates climbed to 15%. They dropped to 14% the month we joined and continued to fall to 7% when we left the ERM two years later.

Interest rates rose by 5% in one day Tony - George Soros made a fortune on the long devaluation and we were at record interest rates

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah well...I just chose the top 2 or 3 of sources I'd heard of given what I searched. Maybe you should delve into the positives for more recent stuff if you want them. I am as happy with thoughts as they stand as you seem with yours. We just beg to differ I guess

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I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)

 

[skybluetony176]

Interest rates rose by 5% in one day Tony - George Soros made a fortune on the long devaluation and we were at record interest rates

I think you’re confusing it with when Maggie came into power and hiked interest rates to 17%. By choice.

 

[Astute]

I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)

That is because you only search pro EU outlets.

 

[Grendel]

I think you’re confusing it with when Maggie came into power and hiked interest rates to 17%. By choice.

Wiki man

How John Major and Norman Lamont hid the cost of the Black Wednesday disaster

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I don’t specifically look for bad news brexit stories I just look for brexit stories. They just happen to be mainly bad. The only two tangible ones are cheaper citrus fruit as non EU produced citrus fruit is hit with a big tariff to favour EU grown produce and pigs ears. And the latter one depends on whether we decide to stop tagging livestock through one ear as per EU guidelines, which we may not do anyway as we’ve been tagging livestock for centuries. In fact we invented the practice (disclaimer. GCSE history before Grendull starts fact checking me on wiki and then claiming that I got it of wiki)

Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

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[clint van damme]

Wrong. There are consultants doing so...to prevent stroke in at risk pts. If the cause of stroke a is a clot...it is warfarin or similar anticoagulant that would be prescribed. The point is...experts given the same information reach different convlusions in many situations. Media agenda chooses which are given airtime where. I reckon that the coverage is largely scaremongering & speculation.
That said there is rightfully much concern out there because of the unknown moving forward. Some will win, some will lose - both sides of the channel. It will all balance out though.

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But you're not saying why it will balance out. I proved evidence to suggest it's going to be a fuck up. Show me something that's says it won't.

Trust me, I've looked and can find very little and what I've found from Johnson, mogg, fox and co is riddled with inaccuracies

 

[Sick Boy]

As you & some others seem to like this approach...

Stop complaining about Brexit – the economic benefits will be huge | John Longworth

How the UK can benefit from a free trade future after Brexit – even outside the single market

Pros and cons of leaving the EU

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The first two articles are from 2017, a fair bit has changed since then and no one is now saying we will get a trade deal because German car manufacturers will be put pressure on the EU and make it give in to the UK's demands.

 

[Sick Boy]

It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.

No it's not, it's only just dawning on some of what it'll be like for the UK to be a 3rd country.

 

[martcov]

Nothing to do with rules changing?

no.

 

[Monners]

It isn't the unknown that is the problem. It is what the EU is doing to try and force us to stay in the EU that is the problem.

I don't see that at all, but like I say, I don't consider myself to be bias

 

[martcov]

Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

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Because the majority of people in Europe, in business, who have something to with supply chains or movement of goods in or out of the UK, think that Brexit is a bad idea.

 

[martcov]

That is because you only search pro EU outlets.

Oh god....

 

[Monners]

Like the sustained economic growth when the uk plunged into the ERM and interest rates climbed to 15%?

Yep - poor (or no) planning. Thatcher's dogma carried on by Major - and a clueless Chancellor.

Deregulation of the banks also - carried on by Labour.

Council house sell off - great vote winner, but not replacing the housing stock is hardly sustainable planning

Global banking crisis etc,,

People (and countries) spending borrowed money - with no planning

Short termism of the political cycle, UK, EU, Global is the issue for me. - long term sustainable planning (god I love that word) - whether in r out of the EU is surely the way forward. WIll never happen though

 

[Grendel]

Where’s Tony gone?

 

[Grendel]

Yep - poor (or no planning).

No entirely down to EU strategy

 

[martcov]

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

I'm not biased. I see that Brexit is looking like a fuck up, and the crap about USSR, 1066 and Brit Dunkirk spirit at the Conservative conference, confirmed once again that Brexit is a fuck up. We don't need the Dunkirk spirit if we are going some place better than where we are. We don't need to annoy the people we are negotiating with if we have a good hand. They have to come to us. I think insulting the people who hold a veto on any trade deal is a futile attempt to save face as we lunge out of the EU. It won't help, but I think the Tories know we are out on our arse and are whipping up their base against the EU, ready to blame Brexit on the EU.

 

[martcov]

No entirely down to EU strategy

Yes, of course, the EU is to blame. Like it is for infrastructure, failings of the NHS, lack of affordable housing, underfunded schools, people talking in foreign languages in the street, in fact for everything. Brilliant. Leave the EU and everything will be fixed..... er no..... deregulation, scrap worker's rights guaranteed by the EU, increase the gig economy, drop any EU tax evasion rules, drop all tariffs and port controls on goods from emerging markets, let the US agricultural products in without pesky rules and sell off the NHS. And you will all live happily ever after. I will enjoy coming over for holidays and to watch the city with my nice Euros, and benefit from the falling pound. Win win.

 

[Monners]

No entirely down to EU strategy

I disagree

 

[Grendel]

Yes, of course, the EU is to blame. Like it is for infrastructure, failings of the NHS, lack of affordable housing, underfunded schools, people talking in foreign languages in the street, in fact for everything. Brilliant. Leave the EU and everything will be fixed..... er no..... deregulation, scrap worker's rights guaranteed by the EU, increase the gig economy, drop any EU tax evasion rules, drop all tariffs and port controls on goods from emerging markets, let the US agricultural products in without pesky rules and sell off the NHS. And you will all live happily ever after. I will enjoy coming over for holidays and to watch the city with my nice Euros, and benefit from the falling pound. Win win.

So the run ok the pound wasn’t to do with the ERM?

In one day people were contemplating chucking their keys to their homes as interest rates ran out of control.

On the same day a vile currency speculator made a fortune out of British people’s misery. A certain someone who hold in high regard.

 

[Grendel]

I disagree

If we’d stayed in the ERM would mortgage prices have increased by a third in one day?

 

[Monners]

So the run ok the pound wasn’t to do with the ERM?

In one day people were contemplating chucking their keys to their homes as interest rates ran out of control.

On the same day a vile currency speculator made a fortune out of British people’s misery. A certain someone who hold in high regard.

People were chucking their keys in when Thatcher was looking after those with savings with increased interest rates month by month - remember it well when I bought my first house as a 21 year old back in 1987. Not sure how I managed to be honest - dark days for a young lad on his own.

Anyway, I just remembered that I dislike you because of your persistent ignorance and rudeness - and in a long term and sustainable way

 

[Grendel]

People were chucking their keys in when Thatcher was looking after those with savings with increased interest rates month by month - remember it well when I bought my first house as a 21 year old back in 1987. Not sure how I managed to be honest - dark days for a young lad on his own.

Anyway, I just remembered that I dislike you because of your persistent ignorance and rudeness - and in a long term and sustainable way

In other words you haven’t a clue about the ERM

 

[Monners]

In other words you haven’t a clue about the ERM

I rest my case

 

[SkyblueBazza]

But you're not saying why it will balance out. I proved evidence to suggest it's going to be a fuck up. Show me something that's says it won't.

Trust me, I've looked and can find very little and what I've found from Johnson, mogg, fox and co is riddled with inaccuracies

Tbh I think we are all pointlessly discussing pros & cons either way. We have all become entrenched from whatever our stance was 3months post referendum - & there is now no shifting us.

All those names you throw in...whilst some of their rantings strike a chord, most of what they say carries little sway...& equally some stuff that remain advocates say still strike a chord too, but at the end of the day - they are all looking from their own selfish (as-in opinion formed) perspective for their own career, financial or social gain. They might tell me what is best for me, but I believe it is my responsibility to decide what is actually best for me & mine...then i have only myself to blame or congratulate depending on the outcome

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[SkyblueBazza]

True to form imo...

"Beyond the rhetoric, Britain and EU preparing to move on Brexit" - Beyond the rhetoric, Britain and EU preparing to move on Brexit | Reuters

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[SkyblueBazza]

And those words "bully" & "threats" I have been criticised for before are being used by negotiators & leaders of these "Soverign Nation" members of the EU...

"Defiant Italy says no turning back on budget despite EU 'threats'" - Defiant Italy says no turning back on budget despite EU 'threats' | Reuters

"'Don't bully us', Britain takes new combative tone to Brexit talks" - 'Don't bully us', Britain takes new combative tone to Brexit talks | Reuters

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[skybluetony176]

Wiki man

How John Major and Norman Lamont hid the cost of the Black Wednesday disaster

That was crashing out. You said plunging in. Two completely different things.

 

[skybluetony176]

That is because you only search pro EU outlets.

I search the subject not the outlets. Feel free to post links to the pro brexit outlets good news stories if you can find them. You won’t, find any, or rarely. I know because I look on a daily basis. Probably why I just don’t repeat meaningless rhetoric on a daily basis.

 

[Grendel]

I rest my case

What was the key driver and impact behind the interest rate explosion then?

 

[skybluetony176]

Wonder why they are mainly bad? Media agenda? Get more readers, listeners & viewers? It is a business for them not just news

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For your theory to me true the media would surely be pandering to the leave camp. Given that was the majority. Maybe it’s just the cold hard of reality of Brexit and now all the fuzzy logos have gone people are focusing on the reality.

 

[Grendel]

That was crashing out. You said plunging in. Two completely different things.

When did we leave Tony?