The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (105 Viewers)

[martcov]

Trumps argument not yours?

Errrrr

US tariffs make world 'more dangerous'

What is your point? Smashing trade deals and starting trade wars is making the world more unstable? That was one of Cameron‘s arguments about leaving the EU making Europe more unstable and maybe ending back to European wars, as was the case for hundreds of years.

 

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[Astute]

Call it a hunch, but something tells me you haven’t a fucking clue about international trade.

Why is that?

 

[Astute]

you've been advocating walking away from dozens of free trade agreements for the entirety of this thread.

Which ones are they?

 

[Astute]

Are you saying we weren’t allowed a say in the EU? We helped make the rules of the EU, and they are being kept. That’s why we are having trouble having ou ccake and eating it. Don’t say no rules are kept. It’s crap. Rules are broken in every country in the world, and that is a crime or misdemeanour, and not allowed. There are constant investigations, sanctions and judgements against rule breaking. In the U.K. and the EU. There are people who get away with things they shouldn’t,such as Liam Fox, American business‘ representative in the U.K. government. Or, Selmayr/ Juncker in the EU. The EU is a far more advanced trading bloc than the TPP which hs not been ratified.

So where have I said no rules are kept?

But I keep mentioning where rules and regulations have been broke. And that they continue to get broke.

Would you like to point out where I have defended anyone for rule/regulations/law breaking?

 

[skybluetony176]

Some of Canada’s concerns about joining the TPP

TPP: A Conservative deal that's bad for Canada | Canadian Labour Congress

TPP still a bad deal for Canadian workers, families, and democracy

Why Canada must reject the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP)

And there’s hundreds of similar stories. You’ll forgive me if I don’t get the bunting out just yet.

 

[Astute]

What is your point? Smashing trade deals and starting trade wars is making the world more unstable? That was one of Cameron‘s arguments about leaving the EU making Europe more unstable and maybe ending back to European wars, as was the case for hundreds of years.

Tony mentioned Trump.

The link is all you need to know. Trump is an absolute twat.

 

[Astute]

Some of Canada’s concerns about joining the TPP

TPP: A Conservative deal that's bad for Canada | Canadian Labour Congress

TPP still a bad deal for Canadian workers, families, and democracy

Why Canada must reject the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP)

And there’s hundreds of similar stories. You’ll forgive me if I don’t get the bunting out just yet.

Would you like to point out where I have celebrated?

What I did say is it shows that countries want to have trade deals with us once we have left.

It looks like a free trade deal. I am not going to say it is shit until we know the details. Just like I am not going to say it is good until we know. But the normal culprits already know it is shit before we know any details.

What a surprise.

 

[Sick Boy]

you've been advocating walking away from dozens of free trade agreements for the entirety of this thread.

Apparently now leaving will mess up his life, you couldn't make it up.

 

[martcov]

Why is it you throw all kinds of accusations at someone if they mention Trump in any way. But it is OK for you to talk about Trump being right for once when it helps with your next bit of UK bashing.

What is U.K. bashing? Pointing out that joining TPP wouldn’t be a better deal than we already have with the EU? The Japanese have said that it will mitigate some of the damage caused by Brexit. Some of the damage.....

 

[skybluetony176]

Not everyone in Australia is happy about it either

TPP 11 set to clear Australian Senate after receiving bipartisan support | ZDNet

There's no point to Australia's push to ratify the TPP

 

[clint van damme]

Which ones are they?

the other 27 EU countries for a start.
Then the EU claims to have 50 free trade agreements with other countries, some say it's not true because some of the deals aren't strictly free trade but even if you half that that's another 25.

 

[skybluetony176]

New Zealand also has concerns about how it will let foreign investors buy homes. How’s that going to help the housing crisis in the U.K.? It’s already a major problem in London without opening the door to a wider audience.

 

[skybluetony176]

Would you like to point out where I have celebrated?

Ha ha. Classic Astute. You crack me up.

 

[skybluetony176]

What I did say is it shows that countries want to have trade deals with us once we have left.

What it shows is that a lame duck trading block that can’t get off the ground is desperate to make it look attractive to the other parties that have concerns about it. Funny that the invite come from the PM of one of the group rather than a joint statement from the group don’t you think?

Actually if you read up on it it’s not funny at all. If they can get the lame duck of the ground who do you think is set to be the major beneficiary of it? That’s right, Japan.

You know your long protracted argument about the EU only benefiting Germany and that being the reason Germany is keen to extend the EU? Transfer that argument to Japan and the TPP and you’ll be in the right ballpark.

So using that same logic explain why membership of the TPP is a benefit to the U.K.

 

[Monners]

Out of interest Tony, why did you vote UKIP at the time; so by definition a staunch leave supporter?

Astute - you come across as a staunch leave voter with your clear mistrust (to say the least) of anything EU, and yet appear to have voted remain?

I don't want to enter the argument, but why are you both going at it hammer and tongs, when you have both found it within yourselves to change your minds over the last couple of years?

 

[Captain Dart]

I’ll tell you what. Let’s start with a blank piece of paper. What will the benefit be of joining the TPP for the U.K.? Should be a simple enough question to answer.

Starting with a blank piece of paper is what the EU should do.

 

[martcov]

Starting with a blank piece of paper is what the EU should do.

They did.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yet you seem pissed off that the UK is in advanced talks with making a deal that we were supposed to take years to make if at all.

How's a casual remark been turned into the UK being in advanced talks to join TPP?

Then you go on about people twisting things and yourself only ever speaking 'the truth'.

 

[Astute]

Apparently now leaving will mess up his life, you couldn't make it up.

If you look back you will see it is what I have said from the very start.

But as you also know you are only allowed one viewpoint. And that is we must stay in the EU whatever the cost.

You are not even allowed to mention anything that could be seen as being average to good for leaving.

 

[Astute]

What is U.K. bashing? Pointing out that joining TPP wouldn’t be a better deal than we already have with the EU? The Japanese have said that it will mitigate some of the damage caused by Brexit. Some of the damage.....

Would you like to point out where I have said that TPP would be better than the EU?

Of course you can't. But it looks good doesn't it. All your comments look good to you.

 

[Astute]

New Zealand also has concerns about how it will let foreign investors buy homes. How’s that going to help the housing crisis in the U.K.? It’s already a major problem in London without opening the door to a wider audience.

New Zealand and Australia are quite strict on who they allow to live in their countries. I'm quite surprised if you agree with them.

 

[Astute]

Ha ha. Classic Astute. You crack me up.

More like a classic quote from yourself. You know what I have said is right. So you come out with your normal line.

Well done.

 

[Astute]

What it shows is that a lame duck trading block that can’t get off the ground is desperate to make it look attractive to the other parties that have concerns about it. Funny that the invite come from the PM of one of the group rather than a joint statement from the group don’t you think?

Actually if you read up on it it’s not funny at all. If they can get the lame duck of the ground who do you think is set to be the major beneficiary of it? That’s right, Japan.

You know your long protracted argument about the EU only benefiting Germany and that being the reason Germany is keen to extend the EU? Transfer that argument to Japan and the TPP and you’ll be in the right ballpark.

So using that same logic explain why membership of the TPP is a benefit to the U.K.

A lame duck that the EU wants trade deals with the countries involved.

I would have said you couldn't make it up. But you have.

 

[Astute]

Out of interest Tony, why did you vote UKIP at the time; so by definition a staunch leave supporter?

Astute - you come across as a staunch leave voter with your clear mistrust (to say the least) of anything EU, and yet appear to have voted remain?

I don't want to enter the argument, but why are you both going at it hammer and tongs, when you have both found it within yourselves to change your minds over the last couple of years?

I would like us to stay in the EU. But during the process of Brexit we have found out things about the EU that we didn't have a clue about. This has put major doubts in my mind. Which way will the EU go in next? There has been talk of an EU army. That is a bit worrying. Because we don't know how much we can trust those in charge of the EU.

There is good and bad about being in the EU. But if you believed everything on here from certain people there is only good. And that is the problem with this thread. I end up getting into stupid arguments with those who only ever put one side forward. It isn't a debate.

 

[Astute]

How's a casual remark been turned into the UK being in advanced talks to join TPP?

Then you go on about people twisting things and yourself only ever speaking 'the truth'.

It is a deal that is being put forward. A few countries have ratified the deal. The others seem to be in agreement. So the talks are at an advanced stage.

 

[martcov]

If you look back you will see it is what I have said from the very start.

But as you also know you are only allowed one viewpoint. And that is we must stay in the EU whatever the cost.

You are not even allowed to mention anything that could be seen as being average to good for leaving.

You have been asked repeatedly to show proven benefits of leave. You just return to Selmayr as your favourite fig leaf covering Brexit.

 

[martcov]

It is a deal that is being put forward. A few countries have ratified the deal. The others seem to be in agreement. So the talks are at an advanced stage.

What is the deal being offered and when will it be presented to parliament or the public?

 

[martcov]

I would like us to stay in the EU. But during the process of Brexit we have found out things about the EU that we didn't have a clue about. This has put major doubts in my mind. Which way will the EU go in next? There has been talk of an EU army. That is a bit worrying. Because we don't know how much we can trust those in charge of the EU.

There is good and bad about being in the EU. But if you believed everything on here from certain people there is only good. And that is the problem with this thread. I end up getting into stupid arguments with those who only ever put one side forward. It isn't a debate.

Actually, we have seen the disadvantages of leaving the EU more than good reasons for leaving, which is why you are constantly deflecting to Selmayr’s appointment - which most in the EU seem to agree with you upon. You refer to it as a stupid argument which you seem to like being involved in. Others are bored with it by now, but as you say it isn’t a debate when we are all of the opinion that it was a scam, sham and annoying. Now you are worried about an EU army because there was talk of it. For one thing it was talk, for the other a European defence force is now more necessary than it ever was as Trump has shown. Plus we had a veto on a European army so wouldn’t have been forced into it anyway.

 

[martcov]

A lame duck that the EU wants trade deals with the countries involved.

I would have said you couldn't make it up. But you have.

Deals with individual countries as opposed to joining a lame duck. Don’t you understand that? I thought that was also what leave was all about. And not replacing the ECJ with another court thousands of miles away.

 

[martcov]

Would you like to point out where I have said that TPP would be better than the EU?

Of course you can't. But it looks good doesn't it. All your comments look good to you.

You are playing up an offer of help in avoiding some of the Brexit damage as a plus. It is a help in a crisis, but not exactly the sailing off into a glorious sunset as propagated by some. No substitute for the conditions we had with our neighbours. Wait until we have to deal with the Heritage Foundation through Trump and Fox.

 

[Astute]

You have been asked repeatedly to show proven benefits of leave. You just return to Selmayr as your favourite fig leaf covering Brexit.

You know that is incorrect. Nothing unusual though.

My main point is anyone being able to move here who has an EU passport. We don't have enough homes for those already here. We don't have the infrastructure for those already here. And when I mention it you say I am anti immigration. No. I am anti people not having anywhere to live.

You can blame whoever you want. This includes the Tories and Labour. But it doesn't change the fact that nothing is being done about the situation. And our population going up by about half a million a year doesn't help matters.

Now say I haven't mentioned this before. Just like other things. But you only remember what you want to.

 

[Astute]

What is the deal being offered and when will it be presented to parliament or the public?

Why is the deal so crap if you don't know what it is?

As I have said several times before I will say it is good or bad when details are known. It looks like a free trade agreement. That doesn't mean that it is all good though.

I have also said this several times. But you haven't noticed this either.

 

[Astute]

Actually, we have seen the disadvantages of leaving the EU more than good reasons for leaving, which is why you are constantly deflecting to Selmayr’s appointment - which most in the EU seem to agree with you upon. You refer to it as a stupid argument which you seem to like being involved in. Others are bored with it by now, but as you say it isn’t a debate when we are all of the opinion that it was a scam, sham and annoying. Now you are worried about an EU army because there was talk of it. For one thing it was talk, for the other a European defence force is now more necessary than it ever was as Trump has shown. Plus we had a veto on a European army so wouldn’t have been forced into it anyway.

Twisting my point again I see.

We can't trust them. Even you finally agreed it was a scam. And it didn't finish with the appointment of Selmayr. And you agreed with this also.

 

[Astute]

Deals with individual countries as opposed to joining a lame duck. Don’t you understand that? I thought that was also what leave was all about. And not replacing the ECJ with another court thousands of miles away.

Lame duck?

What are the details then?

 

[Astute]

You are playing up an offer of help in avoiding some of the Brexit damage as a plus. It is a help in a crisis, but not exactly the sailing off into a glorious sunset as propagated by some. No substitute for the conditions we had with our neighbours. Wait until we have to deal with the Heritage Foundation through Trump and Fox.

So where have I disagreed other than in your head?