The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

[tisza]

Thst isn't the case. Our sovereign parliament has chosen not to leave without a deal. They have rejected what is apparently the only deal the EU will agree with us. We are not in control of the EU saying 'no' to an extensiin, 'no' to renengaging negotiations to get an acceptable deal, nor them saying 'you are out 29/3/19 - end of'


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No deal was not binding. No deal is still a backstop if EU don't extend. Parliament still has to deal with the No deal issue formally if May deal fails and there is no extension.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Wonder which way you wlll wriggle next?
Everything is a negative isn't it....& despite what you say. Had remainers & the EU itself taken Brexit possibilty more seriously, given Cameron something to cone back with instead of h8s tail between his legs...perhaps we wouldn't be where we actually are now? But they then repeat the exercise with May...more thsn once!

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I stated that brexiteers were going to blame sovereignty and the EU and take no responsibility for their own votes and the path that’s inevitably sent us on. Your response was to blame sovereignty and the EU. My position hasn’t changed and you proved me right. You’re now taking option three and blaming remainers. Everyone’s fault other than those who actually voted for this inevitable mess. I’m not surprised really as that was always the tone of the leave campaign and it’s followers, it would be naive to expect that to change when the reality of brexit turns out not to be the utopia sold by leave and it’s supporters.

 

[skybluetony176]

Whose fault is that

Those who voted remain. Apparently.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I stated that brexiteers were going to blame sovereignty and the EU and take no responsibility for their own votes and the path that’s inevitably sent us on. Your response was to blame sovereignty and the EU. My position hasn’t changed and you proved me right. You’re now taking option three and blaming remainers. Everyone’s fault other than those who actually voted for this inevitable mess. I’m not surprised really as that was always the tone of the leave campaign and it’s followers, it would be naive to expect that to change when the reality of brexit turns out not to be the utopia sold by leave and it’s supporters.

I thought it was just Corbyn and the hard left who made far fetched promises

 

[lifeskyblue]

Well I agree with Robert Harris about may’s ridiculous statement earlier:

What she should have said is “We are only in this mess because I called an opportunist election, lost my majority, and became dependent on the DUP and the ERG. It is my fault. I apologise. I resign.”


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[Sky Blue Pete]

Farage reckons no deal the best option. Only cause it won’t affect him in the slightest. What an opportunistic elitist establishment wanker he is

 

[tisza]

The PM's conduct puts parliament's long-term vitality in peril
Interesting piece on what we've been seeing.
Re watched her speech and the image of her walking away perfect metaphor of her self-created isolation

 

[martcov]

His whole principal is hard brexit and he and McDonnell are hoping it happens and then enter government with a country not allied to a federal state

That is the situation at the moment. The UK is not allied to a federal state. It is a member of a Union of sovereign states. The clue is in the name. European Union.

 

[martcov]

11 wannabe Lib Dems who still haven't had the balls to make their rebellion an official party. So he isn't a party leader

A bit unfair. They have had the balls to put their money where their mouth is. Forming a party of people who don’t necessarily agree on things other than wanting the people to vote on the way out of this mess may take time.

 

[martcov]

True, but I think this will start to shift over the next few years, thanks to social media and dwindling press influence. You will always have the tribal element of politics which is why we will always 2 parties taking most of the electorate.

That is also because of FPTP. No other party will ever get a significant say. PR would allow more influence for other ideas.

 

[martcov]

Farage reckons no deal the best option. Only cause it won’t affect him in the slightest. What an opportunistic elitist establishment wanker he is

He is a trader by profession. So are his mates and hedge fund cronies. We cannot know which way they are betting and therefore how Farage and co will be financially affected.

 

[Otis]

This speech is so reckless and apparently many MP's have now received death threats.

One of the biggest culprits in this whole sorry mess is Mrs. May herself and her endless persistence and insistence on pushing through a deal no-one wants.

She should have resigned ages ago.

 

[Sick Boy]

Tell that to the MP's who don't want us to leave especially without a deal.

It is nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. We don't want to leave without a deal. The EU doesn't want us to leave without a deal. They are still trying their best to keep us in the EU.

No it’s not, it’s doing its best to ensure that May’s deal passes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Thst isn't the case.

It is.

 

[Astute]

Yes-because most of the general public is thick and thinks that the party with policies it dislikes and thinks are worse for the economy, is better at running the economy. It reads and swallows nonsense quite happily

The problem with a lot of Labour voters is they want Labour back in power so much that they can't see for themselves what is happening.

Look at the comments I have had on here Forrest mentioning them. I have been a Labour voter for over 30 years. I have been a Labour member. I am involved in a union and it is Pro Labour. But that doesn't mean that you should ignore what is going on in our party.

So at a GE we have the choice of who the Tories put in or who Labour pits in.

Corbyn. Involved in the IRA in some way. Went to IRA funerals but even refused to show sympathy or turn up at funerals of children killed by the IRA. Has always refused to say a word directly against the IRA but has constantly had a go at the British government. Celebrated when IRA murderers got immunity but last week celebrated when a soldier got put on a murder charge for what happened in the 70's. He wants immunity for those who killed the innocent public including women and children but not for those who killed the terrorists. Has met terrorists all over the world but refuses to meet up with those involved in taking us out of the EU. He is more interested in becoming PM than sorting out this shitstorm.

I could go on and on. We need a Labour leader that the majority can vote for. But what we have is someone with a massive cupboard full of skeletons. And he keeps doing things the public doesn't like.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Whose fault is that

Blame who ever you want.

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[Astute]

No deal was not binding. No deal is still a backstop if EU don't extend. Parliament still has to deal with the No deal issue formally if May deal fails and there is no extension.

Yet the first referendum wasn't legally binding. This point was always brought up before when it suits. Now it is ignored.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I stated that brexiteers were going to blame sovereignty and the EU and take no responsibility for their own votes and the path that’s inevitably sent us on. Your response was to blame sovereignty and the EU. My position hasn’t changed and you proved me right. You’re now taking option three and blaming remainers. Everyone’s fault other than those who actually voted for this inevitable mess. I’m not surprised really as that was always the tone of the leave campaign and it’s followers, it would be naive to expect that to change when the reality of brexit turns out not to be the utopia sold by leave and it’s supporters.

But what I am saying is that the scenario is reflecting what some people voted leave for. We are sovereign if we agree to fit with what the EU wants. Otherwise, you get a hard time & lose favour.

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[Astute]

No it’s not, it’s doing its best to ensure that May’s deal passes.

And Mays deal is about being tied to the EU. Even the EU wants it to happen if we don't remain in the EU. Or do you disagree with this?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It is.

Panto season already?

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[Deleted member 5849]

Panto season already?

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Not sure what part you're playing.

 

[Sick Boy]

The problem with a lot of Labour voters is they want Labour back in power so much that they can't see for themselves what is happening.

Look at the comments I have had on here Forrest mentioning them. I have been a Labour voter for over 30 years. I have been a Labour member. I am involved in a union and it is Pro Labour. But that doesn't mean that you should ignore what is going on in our party.

So at a GE we have the choice of who the Tories put in or who Labour pits in.

Corbyn. Involved in the IRA in some way. Went to IRA funerals but even refused to show sympathy or turn up at funerals of children killed by the IRA. Has always refused to say a word directly against the IRA but has constantly had a go at the British government. Celebrated when IRA murderers got immunity but last week celebrated when a soldier got put on a murder charge for what happened in the 70's. He wants immunity for those who killed the innocent public including women and children but not for those who killed the terrorists. Has met terrorists all over the world but refuses to meet up with those involved in taking us out of the EU. He is more interested in becoming PM than sorting out this shitstorm.

I could go on and on. We need a Labour leader that the majority can vote for. But what we have is someone with a massive cupboard full of skeletons. And he keeps doing things the public doesn't like.

Yet somehow the Tories get a free pass when it comes to the DUP and its links to terror groups
So, who are the DUP?

 

[Sick Boy]

And Mays deal is about being tied to the EU. Even the EU wants it to happen if we don't remain in the EU. Or do you disagree with this?

You just claimed it was doing its best to keep Britain in the EU, which it isn’t.

A deal is mutually beneficial for both sides, the promises made by leavers haven’t materialised and no one has come forward over the 3 years with clear alternatives.

I was scoffed at before for saying it would take decades of planning to properly leave due to the complexity but apparenlty it was supposed to have been easy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The problem with a lot of Labour voters is they want Labour back in power so much that they can't see for themselves what is happening.

Look at the comments I have had on here Forrest mentioning them. I have been a Labour voter for over 30 years. I have been a Labour member. I am involved in a union and it is Pro Labour. But that doesn't mean that you should ignore what is going on in our party.

So at a GE we have the choice of who the Tories put in or who Labour pits in.

Corbyn. Involved in the IRA in some way. Went to IRA funerals but even refused to show sympathy or turn up at funerals of children killed by the IRA. Has always refused to say a word directly against the IRA but has constantly had a go at the British government. Celebrated when IRA murderers got immunity but last week celebrated when a soldier got put on a murder charge for what happened in the 70's. He wants immunity for those who killed the innocent public including women and children but not for those who killed the terrorists. Has met terrorists all over the world but refuses to meet up with those involved in taking us out of the EU. He is more interested in becoming PM than sorting out this shitstorm.

I could go on and on. We need a Labour leader that the majority can vote for. But what we have is someone with a massive cupboard full of skeletons. And he keeps doing things the public doesn't like.

‘Corbyn. Involved in the IRA’

Go at him for poor strategy sure but come on, you must see how absurd this point is.

 

[Captain Dart]

This speech is so reckless and apparently many MP's have now received death threats.

One of the biggest culprits in this whole sorry mess is Mrs. May herself and her endless persistence and insistence on pushing through a deal no-one wants.

She should have resigned ages ago.

I think I am going to put a letter to #10 in the post today. One line, a call upon her to resign for the good of the country.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yet somehow the Tories get a free pass when it comes to the DUP and its links to terror groups
So, who are the DUP?

Oh and lending a lot of help to the Saudi criminals because it’s good for business. Or when Thatcher helped Bin Laden in the 80s. Or when Thatcher supported Pinochet. Good thing we’re not allowed to use associations from the 80s to throw mud

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A bit unfair. They have had the balls to put their money where their mouth is. Forming a party of people who don’t necessarily agree on things other than wanting the people to vote on the way out of this mess may take time.

They should’ve joined the Lib Dems if they wanted an anti-Brexit party that doesn’t really stand for anything. All they have done in the short run is come off as arrogant and self righteous.

‘The Labour Party is now...left wing!’

Must leave

 

[Astute]

‘Corbyn. Involved in the IRA’

Go at him for poor strategy sure but come on, you must see how absurd this point is.

No. You always miss the point.

I was mentioning the points on how the electorate see him. And yes he was involved with the IRA in some way. How much is debatable. But even the slightest amount isn't good.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...nt-after-bloody-sunday-murder-charge-1574610/

I have used this link as it has less chance of you calling it biased. Soldiers can still be prosecuted but those who murdered the innocent public have immunity. Can you tell me this is right like Corbyn is happy to do? How do you think the voting public take this?

You can defend him as much as you like. But if you were honest you would work out why Labour are behind the Tories when they are in such a mess. The bloke is a massive liability.

 

[Macca]

I'm amazed this charade is continuing.

 

[Astute]

You just claimed it was doing its best to keep Britain in the EU, which it isn’t.

Why do you try to twist the truth when everyone can clearly see what I have said?

Leave with a deal is being tied to the EU. It isn't staying in the EU.

Or do you know something that nobody else does?

In fact I don't know why I ever reply to you as all you ever do is twist everything I say.

 

[Astute]

I'm amazed this charade is continuing.

And it has a long way to go. Some see it as about all over. But it has only just started. Once the UK part of the charade is over it will become the UK/EU charade.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why do you try to twist the truth when everyone can clearly see what I have said?

Leave with a deal is being tied to the EU. It isn't staying in the EU.

Or do you know something that nobody else does?

In fact I don't know why I ever reply to you as all you ever do is twist everything I say.

You’re the one moving the goalposts and twisting what you said, not me.

“The EU doesn't want us to leave without a deal. They are still trying their best to keep us in the EU.” - nowhere have I twisted what you said.

 

[skybluetony176]

But what I am saying is that the scenario is reflecting what some people voted leave for. We are sovereign if we agree to fit with what the EU wants. Otherwise, you get a hard time & lose favour.

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You’re still blaming sovereignty and the EU. Just like I said. Our sovereign government chose to draw up red lines of their own free will. The referendum didn’t dictate those red lines and the EU didn’t dictate those red lines. Hell, not even her own party had a consensus for those red lines. She set the stool out on her own. When she says “there’s no other deal available” that’s a disingenuous half truth, the full sentence should read that there’s no other deal based on the red lines I(as in May, not me) drew of my own free will. This is the reality of her red lines. If you’re looking to lay blame lay it at May’s door and her red lines or anyone who voted for this shit.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. You always miss the point.

I was mentioning the points on how the electorate see him. And yes he was involved with the IRA in some way. How much is debatable. But even the slightest amount isn't good.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...nt-after-bloody-sunday-murder-charge-1574610/

I have used this link as it has less chance of you calling it biased. Soldiers can still be prosecuted but those who murdered the innocent public have immunity. Can you tell me this is right like Corbyn is happy to do? How do you think the voting public take this?

You can defend him as much as you like. But if you were honest you would work out why Labour are behind the Tories when they are in such a mess. The bloke is a massive liability.

You are one to talk about missing the point. I’m not a Corbyn sycophant and I’ve criticised him many times in the thread and elsewhere when it comes to his poor strategic thinking and inability to play politics.

However-this perception of him as an actual IRA member is the kind of stupidity I’m talking about with the general public. Guilt by association is not guilt. Good Friday released a lot of scumbags on the UVF and IRA sides. Was that right who knows but it did bring an end to the carnage.

There were soldiers who murdered innocents too. There were unionists who carried out terrorist acts on the republican community. But the British public has always turned a blind eye to its own skeletons in the closet

 

[skybluetony176]

And yes he was involved with the IRA in some way. How much is debatable. But even the slightest amount isn't good.

How was the peace process going to start without the slightest amount of involvement with the IRA?