Making a broad assumption that multiple new parties would spring up.
Not likely multiple parties really come to the fore in UK euro elections with the list system.
Would the hard right leave the Tories, would the hard left leave Labour?
One fairly common theme of that type of PR is that govt tends to be pretty central politics.
Still not relevant to the question
It is difficult to say who would have done anything better. The vast majority want to stay in the EU. Which remainer would organise us properly to leave? Which leavers would succeed over the vast majority that are remain? And try answering this in a way that isn't someone who wants to remain whatever. Otherwise you get a biased reply.You say he would have handled Brexit better when it was clear he totally misplayed it as Brexit secretary. Unfit for purpose
It is difficult to say who would have done anything better. The vast majority want to stay in the EU. Which remainer would organise us properly to leave? Which leavers would succeed over the vast majority that are remain? And try answering this in a way that isn't someone who wants to remain whatever. Otherwise you get a biased reply.
And yes I know. I try and look at every angle so you call me a remainer for some reason. Yet I am more desperate than most to remain.
So what was the last sentence and why doesn't it make sense?Last sentence makes no sense. May probably secured the best she could with the tools at her disposal. Polishing the Brexit turd was also beyond the Leave supporters she put in the role.
There is no deal better than staying and no deal will be horrendous. She needed the courage to admit it.
No the question was who’d do a better job. The point is either of these two wouldn’t have lost a parliamentary majority which is the biggest single issue regarding negotiating weakness.
Davis is dim and cautious and wouldn’t have called an election. Johnson probably would as he’s a risk taker but would have crushed Corbyn easily - before you start spinning around I’m afraid people don’t mind old Etonians as PM. They also vote on personality - a large majority would have meant any deal posed would easily have sailed through. A small majority and europhile sheep like Soubrey would be less brave.
May created her own mess by running the worst election campaign since foot challenged thatcher
Personality of Johnson:
Thinks Muslim women look like letter boxes and burglars
Adulterer
Two face
But does use long words and has posh accent. So yes probably would have kept majority. Would have had to drop the Telegraph doss job though. What great policies would be in the Johnson manifesto?
So what was the last sentence and why doesn't it make sense?
May shaped what it looks like with the EU. So she has done the best she has been allowed with the tools at her disposal? If that is the case why have you constantly had a go at the way she has handled the situation?
Oh dear.No the question was who’d do a better job. The point is either of these two wouldn’t have lost a parliamentary majority which is the biggest single issue regarding negotiating weakness.
Davis is dim and cautious and wouldn’t have called an election. Johnson probably would as he’s a risk taker but would have crushed Corbyn easily - before you start spinning around I’m afraid people don’t mind old Etonians as PM. They also vote on personality - a large majority would have meant any deal posed would easily have sailed through. A small majority and europhile sheep like Soubrey would be less brave.
May created her own mess by running the worst election campaign since foot challenged thatcher
Oh dear.
So you and others haven't said that I am on the remain side and constantly have a go at what I say?
If she has wasted months then you will agree she hasn't done the best she could. You can't have a go at her for ages saying how much of a bad job she has done then blame it on others when the situation arises. She has been in charge. Brexit has gone in the direction she has taken it in.
So you and others haven't said that I am on the remain side and constantly have a go at what I say?
If she has wasted months then you will agree she hasn't done the best she could. You can't have a go at her for ages saying how much of a bad job she has done then blame it on others when the situation arises. She has been in charge. Brexit has gone in the direction she has taken it in.
That isn't what I have said though.OK well it looked like you meant something else.
I can say that she tried to get the best deal and I can also criticise what she did afterwards. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
That isn't what I have said though.
We have both constantly had a go at the way May has dealt with the situation. Just like most on here has. Yet earlier you stated that she has done the best with the tools she has had. If that is the case we have been wrong to have a go at May but should have constantly had a go at her tools.
France?What's the latest on the big move?
Don't you see the contradiction though?In trying to get a deal I think she has. I also think the idiots she handed negotiations to didn’t help either. I can say that she has tried to get the best deal she can while criticising what she did after the deal was rejected. We can also criticise the botched snap election.
I am not praising her handling of anything other than a pursuit for a deal that reflects the 52-48 split. But now is the time to let the people break the deadlock.
Don't you see the contradiction though?
She has either done it badly or has been hampered by the tools given to her. You can't just blame her constantly but then blame the tools when it suits.
So if she has done nothing wrong why have you constantly had a go at her?I don’t see one, no. I consider her attempt on the deal to be separate from the snap election and the attempts to force Parliament to accept what she got. This is also all in response to the idea that Davis or Johnson would have done better.
Me saying she got the best deal she could under the circumstances is about as praiseworthy as being the tallest in primary school.
So if she has done nothing wrong why have you constantly had a go at her?
And here you go again.I never said she has done nothing wrong. Trying hard not to make a point about Astute’s comprehension skills is getting difficult.
And here you go again.
You have spent a ling time having a go at the way May has dealt with the situation. Then today you blamed it on the tools she had. Now I have comprehensive problems for noticing that you have contradicted yourself.
So try again. Is the way May has dealt with the situation down to the tools available to her like you said earlier?
Quite simple that one.3 hard left Labour policies
Go
Quite simple that one.
Unable to adopt too many hard left policies atm as majority of Labour just to the left of centre.
In a new multi party system you don't think a harder left party would emerge ( as has done in just about every other PR system) ?
Plenty of internal differences in current Labour Party. Are you honestly saying the whole Labour Party is singing from the same hymn sheet?
A new PR based system could very easily see new several new parties emerge from both major parties. Corbyn already lost 8 MPs to a new "party". You think if more options were available with a realistic chance of MP representation more MPs wouldn't move more freely to new groups?
Few old school Socialist policies - renationalization, sectorial wage bargaining (a sly move to increase Union power), compulsory employee ownership of larger company shares (again a backdoor to increased Union influence), increase the tax on the wealthy, increase inheritance tax burden.
There's a few old school Labour policies. Not a debate about the merits of the policies just which part of the political spectrum they originate from.
Wouldn't qualify any of these as 'hard left' to be honest. Seems that the threshold to be 'hard left' is pretty low which is largely the result of centrist buckling sustained over decades. I do not want too much splintering of the party but seems to me like Team Centrist threw its toys out of the pram when someone came along and told them to stop abstaining on everything and to back progressive policy positions. As Andy Burnham famously said in the leadership contest
'The chancellor is trying to get me to say what I think'
I'd argue there have been plenty of spells where the Tory Party's been left of where Blair's Labour Party ended up!Can make the same argument about the Tories in that they are far closer to the centre than they have been historically.
Difference is "hard left" is no longer what it used to mean. In common parlance traditional Socialist policies are seen as being to the "hard left" because in comparison to the rest of the Labour party this is how they are seen.
Can make the same argument about the Tories in that they are far closer to the centre than they have been historically.
Everyone quick to associate ERG as "hard right" of the Tory party but really just "hard Brexiteers". No Deal Brexit doesn't mean the political nature of the UK would have taken a swing to the "hard right".
No chanceI'd argue there have been plenty of spells where the Tory Party's been left of where Blair's Labour Party ended up!
May is as disingenuous as the council
May is as disingenuous as the council
You never said what?I never said that. Look back through and try again.
A Labour victory?Amazed no one commenting on last nights election as an inevitable pre cursor of things to come
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