The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

[Astute]

Lake Garda is amazing, haven't been for a few years but stayed in Riva in about 2010.

Did Lake Como last year on the way to Liechtenstein, and finally Basel for the Europa League Final. What a road trip that was. We stopped by near the Anakin Skywalker palace from Star Wars which overlooks the lake and it was stunning.

Saw a fair bit of Lake Garda during one of our pre season games a couple of years ago. My little boy kept needing the toilet during the game. They had portaloos and right behind was the view high up a mountain. If anything better views than back at home.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Saw a fair bit of Lake Garda during one of our pre season games a couple of years ago. My little boy kept needing the toilet during the game. They had portaloos and right behind was the view high up a mountain. If anything better views than back at home.

Love the sound of that!

 

[mrtrench]

Tony Blair is in the press today, promising: "Our challenge is to expose, relentlessly, the actual cost....To show how this decision was based on imperfect knowledge, which will now become informed knowledge...To calculate in easy to understand ways how proceeding will cause real damage to the country and its citizens and to build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge.”

I'm very interested to read what he has to say but I'm not holding my breath, as I expect more weasel words and high-level unsubstantiated claims. However if he really does has a reasoned argument I will reconsider and am open to change my mind. I've written to him encouraging him to communicate and presenting my case against. Pointless I'm sure but it's nice to get it off my chest.

 

[Astute]

Would be good if you knew it was from someone you know that you could trust.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Tony Blair is in the press today, promising: "Our challenge is to expose, relentlessly, the actual cost....To show how this decision was based on imperfect knowledge, which will now become informed knowledge...To calculate in easy to understand ways how proceeding will cause real damage to the country and its citizens and to build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge.”

I'm very interested to read what he has to say but I'm not holding my breath, as I expect more weasel words and high-level unsubstantiated claims. However if he really does has a reasoned argument I will reconsider and am open to change my mind. I've written to him encouraging him to communicate and presenting my case against. Pointless I'm sure but it's nice to get it off my chest.

He's just confirmed my view that he's delusional megalomaniac who should be up in front of a war crimes court. He's so deluded that he thinks he can change the world with a few throw away comments. His time in office showed him for what he is. He never thought his legacy would be all out war in the middle east.

 

[scubasteve]

The man should be in prison for the rest of his life for the war crimes he committed, his lies are sickening and has led to death and destruction of the middle east, how he got away with it I don't know.
If anyone wasn't sure if they wanted in or out of the EU, Tony Blair saying we should have another referendum should confirm you should probably do the exact opposite. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put him up to speak out against brexit must be stupid, or think this country has short memories of the atrocities he caused.

 

[chiefdave]

If social media is any indication that idiot opening his mouth has made some remainers reconsider their position as they don't want to be on the same side of the argument as him.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

If social media is any indication that idiot opening his mouth has made some remainers reconsider their position as they don't want to be on the same side of the argument as him.

Glad to hear it. He is a vile creature.

 

[Monners]

If social media is any indication that idiot opening his mouth has made some remainers reconsider their position as they don't want to be on the same side of the argument as him.

I would still be a "Remainer" and don't care what Bliar says. Most of us have moved on though as I live in th real world, not Blair fantasy land

 

[M&B Stand]

Brexiteers couldn't wish for any better endorsement than Tony Blair saying remain.

 

[skybluetony176]

I voted remain and still believe that would be for the best. However. I also believe in democracy (regardless of how narrow the victory was) so if knob head Tony Blair did by some miracle get the referendum re-run I would be more likely to vote leave than remain. Unless of course something so horrific came out that you'd have to be a complete nutter to vote leave. However, if there was something that horrific to come out it would have come out the first time.

 

[Monners]

I would vote remain again - but nothing to do with Blair's view. He is just attention seeking as usual

 

[Sick Boy]

If social media is any indication that idiot opening his mouth has made some remainers reconsider their position as they don't want to be on the same side of the argument as him.

That is ridiculous.

 

[Sick Boy]

Good post SB.

As you well know, we share a lot of common ground & I agonised for months over which way to vote......

The thing that swayed it for me was the complete blank that cameron drew when attempting to renegotiate with the EU.....possibly down to a lack of conviction, talent or planning....but whilst I recognise the benefits the EU has brought over the years, I can only see trouble ahead as they persist to favour big business over big ideas, banks over citizens, punitive economic policy that bullies states such as Greece, riding roughshod over the democratic wishes of sovereign states in order to prop up an already failed currency......

I believe the EU waters will go from choppy, to a full blown storm within the next decade......

Clearly I didn't vote for any of what happened next......I maybe naively assumed that after the government fell, we may actually have a general election which may have given the nation a chance to reflect, plan & organise.......not just insert some careerist bitch into No. 10 & surround her with opportunists & lickspittles....

you're a good man & I wish you all the best in your new adventure........buona fortuna amico mio

Thank you for your kind words my friend...if you are at Wembley it would be a pleasure to meet up.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'd still vote leave for the reasons jhfc outlines. Forcing Greece (and the others in the so called PIIGS group) into crippling austerity to support irresponsible lending from banks is disgusting. Not that the UK government is much better, at least we have some vestige of control over them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tony Blair is in the press today, promising: "Our challenge is to expose, relentlessly, the actual cost....To show how this decision was based on imperfect knowledge, which will now become informed knowledge...To calculate in easy to understand ways how proceeding will cause real damage to the country and its citizens and to build support for finding a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge.”

I'm very interested to read what he has to say but I'm not holding my breath, as I expect more weasel words and high-level unsubstantiated claims. However if he really does has a reasoned argument I will reconsider and am open to change my mind. I've written to him encouraging him to communicate and presenting my case against. Pointless I'm sure but it's nice to get it off my chest.

He'll say that he knows better than the rest of us as he has for his entire career.

 

[dancers lance]

The irony of Tony Blair trying to force another vote because he thinks that people didn't have the true facts is beyond comprehension, he has just cemented what most people already know, he is narcissistic, delusional and a pathological liar.

 

[mrtrench]

He has a point: the quality of debate was terrible. It's just that I don't think he's going to do any better.

 

[Sick Boy]

The debate and the behaviour of the tabloids has been a disgrace. I'm still far more optimistic about my future in Italy compared to post-Brexit Britain.
Appreciate the point by FP but the UK is one of the most unequal societies in Europe and I will always maintain that those to blame have diverted attention away from themselves and toward ordinary working people.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'd still vote leave for the reasons jhfc outlines. Forcing Greece (and the others in the so called PIIGS group) into crippling austerity to support irresponsible lending from banks is disgusting. Not that the UK government is much better, at least we have some vestige of control over them.

It'd a shame more countries didn't follow Iceland's example and jail the bankers.

 

[Liquid Gold]

The debate and the behaviour of the tabloids has been a disgrace. I'm still far more optimistic about my future in Italy compared to post-Brexit Britain.
Appreciate the point by FP but the UK is one of the most unequal societies in Europe and I will always maintain that those to blame have diverted attention away from themselves and toward ordinary working people.

It's actually been a brilliant move by the owners of the tabloid press to divert attention for the social ills in our society towards migrants and the EU. IN the last 10 years since the crash wage growth, in real terms, have been comparable to Greece and massively behind Germany and other countries which have had a far higher proportion of inward migration. It's going to be interesting, to say the least, once we've left the EU and "taken back control" of our borders that the massive inequality and poverty in this country won't have been rectified.

I personally would love to move to the continent, not just because of Brexit, but am doing a course that will last at least the next couple of years and am really worried about the possibility of travel restrictions.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The debate and the behaviour of the tabloids has been a disgrace. I'm still far more optimistic about my future in Italy compared to post-Brexit Britain.
Appreciate the point by FP but the UK is one of the most unequal societies in Europe and I will always maintain that those to blame have diverted attention away from themselves and toward ordinary working people.

Im fairness Sick Boy, living in Italy would be better than living in Britian before or after the referendum. Brexit hardly comes into it!

 

[Captain Dart]

If social media is any indication that idiot opening his mouth has made some remainers reconsider their position as they don't want to be on the same side of the argument as him.

There is a theory going round his utterances are timed to screw up the Labour candidate in the Stoke by-election next Thursday thus undermining Corbyn even further.

 

[dancers lance]

It's actually been a brilliant move by the owners of the tabloid press to divert attention for the social ills in our society towards migrants and the EU. IN the last 10 years since the crash wage growth, in real terms, have been comparable to Greece and massively behind Germany and other countries which have had a far higher proportion of inward migration. It's going to be interesting, to say the least, once we've left the EU and "taken back control" of our borders that the massive inequality and poverty in this country won't have been rectified.

I personally would love to move to the continent, not just because of Brexit, but am doing a course that will last at least the next couple of years and am really worried about the possibility of travel restrictions.

Worst case scenario you would just have to apply for a visa, if you have a legitimate reason to hold the visa it will be granted, your travel will be about as restricted as it would be if you wanted to go to Canada next week.

 

[fernandopartridge]

He has a point: the quality of debate was terrible. It's just that I don't think he's going to do any better.

Tony Blair was the king of soundbite politics.

 

[dancers lance]

He has a point: the quality of debate was terrible. It's just that I don't think he's going to do any better.

Tony Blair lied to parliament to get them to agree to go to war, a war that has not only cost many thousands of lives in the middle east and many lives of British soldiers who where fighting the pointless war, but has been directly responsible for the destabilisation of the middle east, the rise of groups like isis and the influx of people trying to flee into Europe. The knock on effect of which has seen the resurgence of nationalism in Europe.

I don't care how liberal you are, how far you sit to the left, you will instantly undermine your argument if you support this man as the voice of the remain argument.

 

[mrtrench]

Tony Blair lied to parliament to get them to agree to go to war, a war that has not only cost many thousands of lives in the middle east and many lives of British soldiers who where fighting the pointless war, but has been directly responsible for the destabilisation of the middle east, the rise of groups like isis and the influx of people trying to flee into Europe. The knock on effect of which has seen the resurgence of nationalism in Europe.

I don't care how liberal you are, how far you sit to the left, you will instantly undermine your argument if you support this man as the voice of the remain argument.

What?

I'll listen to whatever anyone has to say and then make my own mind up.

 

[dancers lance]

What?

I'll listen to whatever anyone has to say and then make my own mind up.

What?...... where did I say you couldn't?


 

[shmmeee]

Tony Blair lied to parliament to get them to agree to go to war, a war that has not only cost many thousands of lives in the middle east and many lives of British soldiers who where fighting the pointless war, but has been directly responsible for the destabilisation of the middle east, the rise of groups like isis and the influx of people trying to flee into Europe. The knock on effect of which has seen the resurgence of nationalism in Europe.

I don't care how liberal you are, how far you sit to the left, you will instantly undermine your argument if you support this man as the voice of the remain argument.

This is such a nonsense argument. I'm no Blair fan, but someone's opinion on one thing doesn't taint all their opinions forever. People can be both massively wrong and massively right on different topics. No-one is making him "the voice of" anything. He's a skilled politician (which frankly is only proven further by the fact that he got an entire country to do something as shit as Iraq), even if he is a massive c**t who started the destruction of the NHS and state education (and Iraq).

You take the argument on its merits, not who is making it.

 

[scubasteve]

Blairs decisions has led to the death of millions, a war that has gone on for 15 years and destroyed multiple countries and led to the rise of isis. Yes his opinion means nothing, he no right to voice a opinion to a nation. If I was him I would walk away and live off the millions he made off his decisions and be grateful he wasn't in prison. He is scum and no one should even give him the breath of air he is lucky to breath, let alone the voice to give a opinion. As we all know what his last opinions led to.

 

[Astute]

You take the argument on its merits, not who is making it.

I don't agree. The remainers tried to make out that those wanted to leave were listening to racists and Boris. Now everyone is allowed to listen to anyone without prejudice?

 

[martcov]

I don't agree. The remainers tried to make out that those wanted to leave were listening to racists and Boris. Now everyone is allowed to listen to anyone without prejudice?

Yes, but.....their Brexit arguments were built on fake facts and populism. If Blair - c**t that he is - can bring real facts and good arguments, then fair play listen to him. Make your own mind up. Now, Farage.... If, if , if he ever brought real facts and sensible arguments, then I would listen to him. He is too busy looking after a French... mistress?... at the moment. Feel sorry for the German wife.

 

[dancers lance]

This is such a nonsense argument. I'm no Blair fan, but someone's opinion on one thing doesn't taint all their opinions forever. People can be both massively wrong and massively right on different topics. No-one is making him "the voice of" anything. He's a skilled politician (which frankly is only proven further by the fact that he got an entire country to do something as shit as Iraq), even if he is a massive c**t who started the destruction of the NHS and state education (and Iraq).

You take the argument on its merits, not who is making it.

So would you still be in support if Garry Glitter had made the same statement? You would surely have to take it on the merits of his statement and not judge the person making it?

 

[Sick Boy]

Gary Glitter?! What a great level of debate, ffs.

 

[Otis]

Indeed!

I mean, come on!!

Come on, come, come on, come one, come on, come on, come on, come on, I say! (repeat)