The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (250 Viewers)

[Astute]

That is not true. They are not changing the rules of 27 countries because one arrogant PM tells them to.

And we are not staying in a crooked institution that costs us billions a year to be a part of just to be told what we can and can't do.

 

---

[skybluetony176]

So we voted to stay in the EU all them years ago. But now you change it a bit.....

Our elected government sighed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and the EEC became the EU. Greenland left in 85. Greenland joined in 1973 as part of Denmark, in 79 Denmark issued Greenland the right to self govern and after that they left the EEC as a Danish self governed territory. They never had to trigger article 50 and still aren’t recognised as a sovereign country to this day. They’re going through the process of gaining a seat on the UN at which point they will become a country in its own right, can apply to the IOC, UAFA and FIFA as a country. How many ways one person can be wrong and still try to kid people they’re the one who’s wrong is flabbergasting. No surprise you’re buying it though.

 

[Astute]

Our elected government sighed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and the EEC became the EU. Greenland left in 85. Greenland joined in 1973 as part of Denmark, in 79 Denmark issued Greenland the right to self govern and after that they left the EEC as a Danish self governed territory. They never had to trigger article 50 and still aren’t recognised as a sovereign country to this day. They’re going through the process of gaining a seat on the UN at which point they will become a country in its own right, can apply to the IOC, UAFA and FIFA as a country. How many ways one person can be wrong and still try to kid people they’re the one who’s wrong is flabbergasting. No surprise you’re buying it though.

So we never voted to join or stay in the EU then.

Why didn't you agree to that last time the debate cane up?

 

[skybluetony176]

No mate, I am watching your deflections and frustration as you see your beloved Brexit descending into a heap of crap. 27 heads of state representing 440 million people just sent out ridiculous PM packing. Priceless.

Every one who voted for the vaguely termed „leave“, should hang their head in shame. Our country looks like a fool. We said we were leaving, but as of yet, we haven’t got a workable exit strategy. You all should have questioned the liars more. Asked what leave actually meant. Now you are told by BoJo that it meant having faith ( WTF? ), and Mogg says it means having „hope“ and that it will be fine long after many of us on here are dead.

All you come out with is Juncker, Selmayr, blue passports and fish, and the hope that the EU needs us more than we need them. Pathetic.

Why aren’t people, leavers, on here asking the liars to explain why negotiations are going so badly and humiliatingly? No. You try and deflect and mock the people who predicted this disaster, or point out that you have been lied to. Anything, but blame the culprits.

Bojo is the real liar. His column the week following the referendum he described his vision of Brexit and it was a lot nearer to EEA membership than the chequers proposal yet now he’s saying that the chequers deal doesn’t go far enough. He’s a pure populist who will say anything in an attempt to gain popularity regardless of how much he contradicts himself. It will be a sad day if he ever becomes PM. I’d take Gove or Rees-Mogg as PM any day of the week over Boris. In the same sense I’d rather take George W over Trump as an American President. Not much of choice.

 

[Astute]

Bojo is the real liar. His column the week following the referendum he described his vision of Brexit and it was a lot nearer to EEA membership than the chequers proposal yet now he’s saying that the chequers deal doesn’t go far enough. He’s a pure populist who will say anything in an attempt to gain popularity regardless of how much he contradicts himself. It will be a sad day if he ever becomes PM. I’d take Gove or Rees-Mogg as PM any day of the week over Boris. In the same sense I’d rather take George W over Trump as an American President. Not much of choice.

Get rid of May and you might well get him. But that doesn't stop you from saying that May needs to go.

 

[Grendel]

So we never voted to join or stay in the EU then.

Why didn't you agree to that last time the debate cane up?

Greenland would have had trouble triggering article 50 as it did not exist until the wonderful Lisbon treaty

There is at least an acknowledgement here from Tony and Martcov that the eec and the Eu are very very different animals so any suggestion the previous referendum has any significance is an absurdity despite their mutual claim to the contrary

 

[skybluetony176]

Get rid of May and you might well get him. But that doesn't stop you from saying that May needs to go.

That’s because May does need to go. She’s the most ineffective inept PM in my lifetime. Doesn’t mean Boris will be any better. If nothing else it could quite entertaining seeing him inevitably falling on his sword but for the good of the country I’d rather not have that luxury. Gove or Rees-Mogg would make many times a better PM than Boris in my opinion but they’d still be on a hiding to nowhere with Brexit to oversee.

 

[martcov]

So we has changed to you. Your guard has dropped.

Yes we are leaving the SM. It is the only way of getting our independence back. Let your country GERMANY take the piss.

What now? We are leaving the single market and creating problems for ourselves. Germany is getting on with it’s own problems. My country? My country is making a fool of itself and I had to be prudent, like Grendel with his portfolio, and take out German citizenship to remain in the EU. Picked my ID card yesterday. Fits in my wallet like a credit card and I have an online pin that goes with it for internet identification. Can’t understand why Britain doesn’t introduce ID cards with all the knife attacks and terrorism at the moment. It would help identifying people.

 

[martcov]

Greenland would have had trouble triggering article 50 as it did not exist until the wonderful Lisbon treaty

There is at least an acknowledgement here from Tony and Martcov that the eec and the Eu are very very different animals so any suggestion the previous referendum has any significance is an absurdity despite their mutual claim to the contrary

I didn’t comment at all.

 

[martcov]

And we are not staying in a crooked institution that costs us billions a year to be a part of just to be told what we can and can't do.

What have they told you to do, or the country to do which has a negative effect on you?

 

[martcov]

Not at all.

Did we ever choose to join or stay in the EU?

Did Greenland leave the EEC And not EU?

How often do we have a vote to stay in the United Kingdom? Were you ever asked? You don’t keep getting votes as an organisation progresses. You could vote out the government if you didn’t like it. But nobody was that angry to do that at the time of Lisbon. The anger only came big time after the liars started using social media.

 

[Astute]

That’s because May does need to go. She’s the most ineffective inept PM in my lifetime. Doesn’t mean Boris will be any better. If nothing else it could quite entertaining seeing him inevitably falling on his sword but for the good of the country I’d rather not have that luxury. Gove or Rees-Mogg would make many times a better PM than Boris in my opinion but they’d still be on a hiding to nowhere with Brexit to oversee.

How do you expect anyone to be effective when you are getting battered from all sides?

We are leaving. The EU will do anything but let us leave as much as they can. Those who want to remain constantly have a go at May. But if it was down to her personal choice we would remain. Then you would love her. Those who want to exit the EU don't trust her as she was a remainer.

So whatever she says or does will be wrong.

If BJ got made PM he would be rated much higher. Over half of the UK would have someone who would try his best to give what they want.

Rees Mogg would be my choice. When I have seen him on TV he has explained everything clearly. Speaks better than his accent or name suggests.

 

[Astute]

What have they told you to do, or the country to do which has a negative effect on you?

Now you are taking the piss.

 

[Astute]

How often do we have a vote to stay in the United Kingdom? Were you ever asked? You don’t keep getting votes as an organisation progresses. You could vote out the government if you didn’t like it. But nobody was that angry to do that at the time of Lisbon. The anger only came big time after the liars started using social media.

Or we can have the truth.

Over the years rules and regulations are brought in. Our voice constantly gets diluted. The system is crooked. And now we have the internet people know how bad it is. All we had before was newspapers telling us how good it is. Now we know differently. Especially since the Brexit vote. Now many who voted remain know they were wrong about the EU. They just want it all over.

But of course you will twist the numbers.

 

[martcov]

Or we can have the truth.

Over the years rules and regulations are brought in. Our voice constantly gets diluted. The system is crooked. And now we have the internet people know how bad it is. All we had before was newspapers telling us how good it is. Now we know differently. Especially since the Brexit vote. Now many who voted remain know they were wrong about the EU. They just want it all over.

But of course you will twist the numbers.

The EU is more democratic now than it was, not less. There are ideas to make the parliament more powerful or do away with some veto rights and make more things majority voting and to maybe merge the commission with the council to make it more efficient. The evolution hasn’t stopped and will probably move faster now that the UK isn’t there.

 

[martcov]

Or we can have the truth.

Over the years rules and regulations are brought in. Our voice constantly gets diluted. The system is crooked. And now we have the internet people know how bad it is. All we had before was newspapers telling us how good it is. Now we know differently. Especially since the Brexit vote. Now many who voted remain know they were wrong about the EU. They just want it all over.

But of course you will twist the numbers.

No we don’t. The internet is riddled with liars such as Breitbart and CA and fake news stories. Just look at some of the right wing crap on twitter. You don’t know much if you rely on the wrong sources on the internet.

 

[martcov]

Now you are taking the piss.

So. You can’t name one thing.

 

[martcov]

How do you expect anyone to be effective when you are getting battered from all sides?

We are leaving. The EU will do anything but let us leave as much as they can. Those who want to remain constantly have a go at May. But if it was down to her personal choice we would remain. Then you would love her. Those who want to exit the EU don't trust her as she was a remainer.

So whatever she says or does will be wrong.

If BJ got made PM he would be rated much higher. Over half of the UK would have someone who would try his best to give what they want.

Rees Mogg would be my choice. When I have seen him on TV he has explained everything clearly. Speaks better than his accent or name suggests.

BoJo is a known liar. Even sacked twice for lying. He won’t be rated higher than May. Mogg is a sneaky posh liar who you like to listen to. Just because you like listening to his bullshit doesn’t make it any more valuable than Boris‘ or Farage‘s crap. He said the UK will be booming after I am dead. I’ll never know whether he is right. The economy was growing whist in the EU. That we know as a fact. Wealth distribution and austerity were the problems, having a hedge fund part owner at the helm won’t change that.

 

[Grendel]

What now? We are leaving the single market and creating problems for ourselves. Germany is getting on with it’s own problems. My country? My country is making a fool of itself and I had to be prudent, like Grendel with his portfolio, and take out German citizenship to remain in the EU. Picked my ID card yesterday. Fits in my wallet like a credit card and I have an online pin that goes with it for internet identification. Can’t understand why Britain doesn’t introduce ID cards with all the knife attacks and terrorism at the moment. It would help identifying people.

Most far right and left countries who despise individual identity have ID cards. No sensible democracy supports it and no civil libertarians ever would

 

[Grendel]

BoJo is a known liar. Even sacked twice for lying. He won’t be rated higher than May. Mogg is a sneaky posh liar who you like to listen to. Just because you like listening to his bullshit doesn’t make it any more valuable than Boris‘ or Farage‘s crap. He said the UK will be booming after I am dead. I’ll never know whether he is right. The economy was growing whist in the EU. That we know as a fact. Wealth distribution and austerity were the problems, having a hedge fund part owner at the helm won’t change that.

All rated higher than the French president whose words you highly value

 

[martcov]

Most far right and left countries who despise individual identity have ID cards. No sensible democracy supports it and no civil libertarians ever would

The USA uses driving licenses. Most European countries use them and all Schengen countries. Makes life easier. In England you have to produce utility bills for some things and nobody really knows who is voting. I would have thought abuse of benefits would be more difficult if everyone could identify themselves. Something Brexiters would agree with I would have thought. Are you saying that the UK is a sensible democracy?

 

[martcov]

All rated higher than the French president whose words you highly value

In this case I value then because he publicly called out the Brexit culprits. It could have been worse.. he could have called us a nation of shopkeepers.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I changed 1 fact not facts. Sounds like you were in the same maths class as Grendull. I also said it very much tongue in cheek. Sorry that was beyond you.

It could mean everything to them. It’s still only a percentage of a percentage of a percentage so on and so on and it means jack to the other 26 members who have their own interests and a veto. Germany’s car industry runs the EU even less than some bloke I never heard of appointed by Junker.

You changed a fact? Oh that's okay then.

That is the one you got called on? Maybe we should check your facts much more enthusiastically in future...or dismiss them?

I'm sure the suits in Brussels would admire your approach & love the fact (or have you changed this one as well?) you have firmly nailed & super-glued your colours to the EU mast!

The only thing that confuses me is that your luvvies didn't like that particular post.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Grendel]

In this case I value then because he publicly called out the Brexit culprits. It could have been worse.. he could have called us a nation of shopkeepers.

Let’s face it if Charles Manson declared we should remain you’d be jerking yourself off

 

[dutchman]

What now? We are leaving the single market and creating problems for ourselves.

Not nearly as many problems as it's making for the EU, which is why they oppose it so strongly

 

[Astute]

The EU is more democratic now than it was, not less. There are ideas to make the parliament more powerful or do away with some veto rights and make more things majority voting and to maybe merge the commission with the council to make it more efficient. The evolution hasn’t stopped and will probably move faster now that the UK isn’t there.

And that is the worry.

Democratic? Ask the vast majority who were pissed off with the way Selmayr got his position. Even the EU commission enquiry said it broke rules and regulations. But he kept his position.

There is good and bad about the direction it is going in. But many in the EU are uneasy about the way those at the top can have such disregard for rules and regulations with nothing happening about it.

 

[Astute]

No we don’t. The internet is riddled with liars such as Breitbart and CA and fake news stories. Just look at some of the right wing crap on twitter. You don’t know much if you rely on the wrong sources on the internet.

I back up everything from creditable sources. Then you and others use sources that you used to have a go at others for using.

 

[Astute]

So. You can’t name one thing.

One thing what?

 

[martcov]

And that is the worry.

Democratic? Ask the vast majority who were pissed off with the way Selmayr got his position. Even the EU commission enquiry said it broke rules and regulations. But he kept his position.

There is good and bad about the direction it is going in. But many in the EU are uneasy about the way those at the top can have such disregard for rules and regulations with nothing happening about it.

I am one of those that are uneasy about that. The plus is that people are waking up to the tricks.

If you think that was bad, look at the Maaßen case in Germany. He got sacked from head of the Special Branch for being too close to AfD and for casting doubt on the authenticity of videos of Nazis attacking people of a different colour in Chemnitz. Then Seehofer immediately made him a Secretary of State in the home office... which is a promotion. And sent the existing Secretary of State, who had done nothing wrong, into early retirement. In this case the uproar could bring the government down. Nahles SPD and Merkel CDU want to reverse the decision. If Seehofer CSU refuses, the coalition will break.

 

[martcov]

I back up everything from creditable sources. Then you and others use sources that you used to have a go at others for using.

TBF you have started being more selective. If you always read past the first paragraph of your links, you will get nearer the truth. Mogg is not a credible source. He speaks slowly and can be witty. That gives an air of seriousness, but he still believes in a wizard in the sky, backs the extreme economist and climate denier favouring scrapping all border controls for trade ( hugely risky for our existing economy), is for more ex commonwealth immigration ( after a short term immigration immigration pause - I would stick with freedom of movement because it is reciprocal and more flexible due to geography ) and is anti abortion ( which is regressive and not based on a reasoned justification).

 

[clint van damme]

TBF you have started being more selective. If you always read past the first paragraph of your links, you will get nearer the truth. Mogg is not a credible source. He speaks slowly and can be witty. That gives an air of seriousness, but he still believes in a wizard in the sky, backs the extreme economist and climate denier favouring scrapping all border controls for trade ( hugely risky for our existing economy), is for more ex commonwealth immigration ( after a short term immigration immigration pause - I would stick with freedom of movement because it is reciprocal and more flexible due to geography ) and is anti abortion ( which is regressive and not based on a reasoned justification).

Rees Moggs stance on abortion is based on his religious beliefs which he seems to use selectively when it suits cherry picking the bits that fit his agenda.

 

[martcov]

Not nearly as many problems as it's making for the EU, which is why they oppose it so strongly

Even if you are right, making problems for the people we convinced to take on the single market wins us nothing. Why would we do that? Stupid idea to leave the single market. It won’t stop immigration which many leavers want and is why they voted to in effect stop freedom of movement, as even Mogg said we should encourage our existing Asians to bring over their relations in the future ( after a short pause in immigration).

 

[martcov]

Rees Moggs stance on abortion is based on his religious beliefs which he seems to use selectively when it suits cherry picking the bits that fit his agenda.

Rees Mogg is a hedge fund part owner. His hedge fund invests mainly in emerging markets, and now, to a much lesser extent, the EU via Dublin. Not in Brexit Britain. Emerging markets will profit from a splitting of the trade bloc EU starting with Britain. I think he is a successful hedge fund boss, but whether that helps the leavers who have been whipped up to hate the EU, is another question. I can see him doing a SISU Joy if he gets to be PM, by saying he „empathises“ with the poorer leavers. Apart from them being able, maybe, to buy cheaper Australian wine and tell their kids that the UK wil be booming in 2068, they will not be better off and may have lost their livelihoods.

 

[clint van damme]

Rees Mogg is a hedge fund part owner. His hedge fund invests mainly in emerging markets, and now, to a much lesser extent, the EU via Dublin. Not in Brexit Britain. Emerging markets will profit from a splitting of the trade bloc EU starting with Britain. I think he is a successful hedge fund boss, but whether that helps the leavers who have been whipped up to hate the EU, is another question. I can see him doing a SISU Joy if he gets to be PM, by saying he „empathises“ with the poorer leavers. Apart from them being able, maybe, to buy cheaper Australian wine and tell their kids that the UK wil be booming in 2068, they will not be better off and may have lost their livelihoods.

hid old man once said, "the best time to make money is in chaos",
I think Jacob has taken that advice one step further and has decided to instigate the chaos as well.

 

[Astute]

In this case I value then because he publicly called out the Brexit culprits. It could have been worse.. he could have called us a nation of shopkeepers.

Yet when someone calls out anyone who is in the position to direct the EU in any way you defend them.