The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (250 Viewers)

[Grendel]

How do you think relying on trading with trading partners such as the USA and China is going to pan out? Instead of being part of a powerful economic union, we are now a distressed trading partner with less clout in the world than the EU. The capitalist communist fourth Reich EUSSR has shown that it is quite capable of uniting 27 governments to obtain their target. The UK has had enormous problems trying to unite itself.

Thanks once again for presenting a wonderful argument to leave.

 

---

[martcov]

Not so Clint.
Mrs May’s Draft Agreement bears no resemblance to the vision she set out in her Lancaster House speech in January 2017.
She has betrayed not only that vision of Brexit but also the entire electorate, Leavers and Remainers alike, in cobbling together this dreadful capitulation.
This sell-out Agreement has the potential to ruin the UK.

Farage is correct to call her the most duplicitous PM in history.

And what happened to Farage‘s vision when presented against reality? Oh... I know, blame May. He has since admitted that Brexit is not about economics ( which translated means we will take a hit ) and he is appalled that the even harder right is picking up the Brexit Banner. He quite rightly says that the hard right could damage Brexit as more and more people are wanting a say on the way things are going. Let’s see if there is violence on Tommy‘s Brexit Betrayal March. If there is, then the cat is out of the sack and we know what sort of people are pushing for a hard Brexit.

 

[martcov]

Thanks once again for presenting a wonderful argument to leave.

Saying the EU is a protectionist bloc means that it protects it’s members and can negotiate better trade deals. It has stood up for Ireland very well in the negotiations over the British border on the island of Ireland. The UK doesn’t have to make a pro USA FTA under EU membership. Enjoy the MAGA trade negotiations.

 

[Grendel]

Saying the EU is a protectionist bloc means that it protects it’s members and can negotiate better trade deals. It has stood up for Ireland very well in the negotiations over the British border on the island of Ireland. The UK doesn’t have to make a pro USA FTA under EU membership. Enjoy the MAGA trade negotiations.

Off the meds again?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

And what happened to Farage‘s vision when presented against reality? Oh... I know, blame May. He has since admitted that Brexit is not about economics ( which translated means we will take a hit ) and he is appalled that the even harder right is picking up the Brexit Banner. He quite rightly says that the hard right could damage Brexit as more and more people are wanting a say on the way things are going. Let’s see if there is violence on Tommy‘s Brexit Betrayal March. If there is, then the cat is out of the sack and we know what sort of people are pushing for a hard Brexit.

To be brutally honest mart, like many others on here I have absolutely no interest in anything you have to say on this subject. As a general rule I skip over your manic posts.
There are plenty of Remainers on here who argue their case based on genuine concern about the consequences for the UK.
You’re not one of them mart.

 

[martcov]

Off the meds again?

No. Just stating the blxxding obvious. Maybe you should start taking something to loosen up your brain cells.

 

[martcov]

To be brutally honest mart, like many others on here I have absolutely no interest in anything you have to say on this subject. As a general rule I skip over your manic posts.
There are plenty of Remainers on here who argue their case based on genuine concern about the consequences for the UK.
You’re not one of them mart.

Bollocks. I think Brexit is a total cock up based on populist bullshit. I keep pointing out the fallacies of the Brexit argument, which obviously annoys people like you who are convinced that Brexit is the greatest thing since sliced bread and won’t have a word said against it. It isn’t. And I am concerned about the mess the UK could end up in, particularly the division this has caused. The fact that a thug is now joining the Brexit cause, having previously specialised in anti Islam causes, is disconcerting. Brexit isn’t even his thing... normally. But, stick your head in the sand if it helps.

 

[Grendel]

Bollocks. I think Brexit is a total cock up based on populist bullshit. I keep pointing out the fallacies of the Brexit argument, which obviously annoys people like you who are convinced that Brexit is the greatest thing since sliced bread and won’t have a word said against it. It isn’t. And I am concerned about the mess the UK could end up in, particularly the division this has caused. The fact that a thug is now joining the Brexit cause, having previously specialised in anti Islam causes, is disconcerting. Brexit isn’t even his thing... normally. But, stick your head in the sand if it helps.

Didn’t you say you are looking forward to the pound collapsing so you can come home for a few days and it will be financially better for you?

 

[Astute]

It's a prediction based upon May's concession and words spoken by the Spanish PM.

We have already seem that the EU has held the whip in these 'negotiations' despite claims by many, including yourself,that the UK would be calling the shots "as the need us more than we need them".

I'm not the one who tries to claim that my opinion is "the truth".

Well your opinion is wrong again. The Spanish had to let it go. But they don't have the only politicians that lie.

 

[martcov]

Didn’t you say you are looking forward to the pound collapsing so you can come home for a few days and it will be financially better for you?

The only benefit I can see. But, I would prefer it not to happen. A few quid either way is not the end of the world. I am not going to advocate Brexit because I think it will benefit me with a few quid for my holidays. I would prefer remaining and me not having a discounted holiday.

 

[Astute]

I came to the conclusion the Tories would fuck this up. If I could draw that conclusion why couldn't others?

And if they're right and I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and say so not try to make excuses.
My theory that the Tories would make a mess of this process is looking right at the moment though I'd say.

But you had just said that the people at fault for Brexit were those who voted for it. Millions voted for Brexit because of the effect being in the EU has had on their lives. They are not the ones who lied.

And now Macron says the EU needs to reform. That is coming from one of the most vocal in favour of the EU you can find.

 

[Astute]

Love the arrogance of people voting for what they don’t understand because they think it’s not going to directly affect them. How ironic and perfect for our current society and the older generation blame the younger generation for being short term minded and not considering the consequences. Brilliantly ironic

What a day to be alive!!

Try looking at the arrogance of some people who voted remain and didn't like the result.

 

[Astute]

The only benefit I can see. But, I would prefer it not to happen. A few quid either way is not the end of the world. I am not going to advocate Brexit because I think it will benefit me with a few quid for my holidays. I would prefer remaining and me not having a discounted holiday.

And there is the point.

You don't live in the UK. You have lived in Germany most of your life. Yet you think that you should dictate to those who suffer because of EU rules and regulations.

I still think that we should have voted remain. But I fully understand why most didn't. And I am not going to call them idiots just because I don't like the result.

I retire in 9 years maximum. It looks like it is going to fuck my retirement plans up. But does that mean I should ignore those who suffer? But there again you seem to think everyone does well out of us being in the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

The problem with the U.K. fishing quotas has been less and less an EU issue and more and more a U.K. government issue for years. Here’s why.

The EU quota system has been changing from historical fishing to a science based system for a couple of decades now. Discarding is also being phased out, although not quick enough for my liking. The upshot of this is that fishing stocks are recovering and different types of fish are returning to the sustainable list, including cod. We have also said post brexit that we will continue fishing on a similar basis so quotas are unlikely to change if at all.

The problem is how our government, that’s our government, divi out the quota. For instance one of the largest trawlers and largest recipient of the quota in the British fleet is danish, it’s been registered in Britain but it isn’t British. Successive governments are aware of this but still choose, that word again, choose to divi out a share of our quota to a foreign owned ship. That isn’t going to change once we leave either.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well your opinion is wrong again. The Spanish had to let it go. But they don't have the only politicians that lie.

Had to let it go? It sounds like your predictions of the UK holding all of the cards.

 

[Sick Boy]

Only because the negotiation is by someone who has an identical political ideology to yourself

Hahahahaha! You're on fine form today. In that case yours is identical to Corbyn's

I'm sure you were advocating Davis to be an intrim Pm recently as well hahha

 

[martcov]

And there is the point.

You don't live in the UK. You have lived in Germany most of your life. Yet you think that you should dictate to those who suffer because of EU rules and regulations.

I still think that we should have voted remain. But I fully understand why most didn't. And I am not going to call them idiots just because I don't like the result.

I retire in 9 years maximum. It looks like it is going to fuck my retirement plans up. But does that mean I should ignore those who suffer? But there again you seem to think everyone does well out of us being in the EU.

I don’t think everyone does well out of being in the EU. The country as a whole does though.

I don’t think most leavers are idiots, although some undoubtedly are. That wouldn’t be any different if remain had won.

No one should ignore those who suffer. Seeing as most benefit from the EU, they have a responsibility to ensure that the poor don’t suffer. The years of neglect of the worse off areas is a major problem and won’t be solved merely by leaving, which according to impact studies, will actually make the situation more difficult. Remain and redistribute would be a good idea, but if you read some posts on here, there are some who blame people receiving benefits as being lazy. Some are, yes, but if you actually are concerned about the worse off, then you take that into account as we would all be better off if there were no poor.

 

[Grendel]

Hahahahaha! You're on fine form today. In that case yours is identical to Corbyn's

I'm sure you were advocating Davis to be an intrim Pm recently as well hahha

May shares your view on the EU does she not?

 

[Sick Boy]

May shares your view on the EU does she not?

I disagree, but ones view of the EU doesn't define one's entire political ideology

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

well more fool them. I knew from the start where this was leading, why couldn't others see it?

II see the EU have signed off on Mays deal. It's that bad it's got me and Ernie agreeing on something, Anyone who voted for May is culpable though to be fair, she didn't have a lot f room to manoeuvre, though again, people should have known that from the start.

That's because you are far more intelligent than everyone else. B.A.(Hons) in Hindsight and European Studies. Masters in Modesty.

 

[oucho]

This is what annoys me about this debate: Tony Blair (remember him?) on TV this morning talking about a second referendum: "“Both the Remain campaign, and the Leave campaign should jointly agree that this vote is final, doesn’t matter how marginal it is, it’s final. Once this is resolved then that’s it for a generation.”

That's what happened in the 2016 until loads of people on the losing side conveniently forgot about the above and tried to pretend the first vote was a glorified opinion poll and didn't actually require the government to get on with Brexit. I was pro-Remain but fair's fair, the winning side should see the result enacted, just as the other side had expected had it gone the other way.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

This is what annoys me about this debate: Tony Blair (remember him?) on TV this morning talking about a second referendum: "“Both the Remain campaign, and the Leave campaign should jointly agree that this vote is final, doesn’t matter how marginal it is, it’s final. Once this is resolved then that’s it for a generation.”

That's what happened in the 2016 until loads of people on the losing side conveniently forgot about the above and tried to pretend the first vote was a glorified opinion poll and didn't actually require the government to get on with Brexit. I was pro-Remain but fair's fair, the winning side should see the result enacted, just as the other side had expected had it gone the other way.

Bravo, oucho. But you can't possibly stay on this thread with a reasonable view like that !

 

[clint van damme]

That's because you are far more intelligent than everyone else. B.A.(Hons) in Hindsight and European Studies. Masters in Modesty.

Hindsight? See my post from last year below.

My main motivator for voting remain was a total distrust of the tories to deliver a successful Brexit. I've seen nothing to alter that opinion.

And although economic meltdown is a bit strong the economy is definitely struggling, whether that is a result of brexit or not will be debated ad nauseum on here no doubt.

And no I'm not far more intelligent, that's my point, if I could see what was going to happen why couldn't others?

I could still be wrong, we haven't left yet, but I'll have the bollocks to hold my hand up and say so if I am, not try and bullshit my way out of it and try and blame others.

 

[clint van damme]

But you had just said that the people at fault for Brexit were those who voted for it. Millions voted for Brexit because of the effect being in the EU has had on their lives. They are not the ones who lied.

And now Macron says the EU needs to reform. That is coming from one of the most vocal in favour of the EU you can find.

they will be responsible for the outcome of Brexit, whether failure or success. So they should take the flak or the plaudits depending on which way it goes.

 

[clint van damme]

Bravo, oucho. But you can't possibly stay on this thread with a reasonable view like that !

I've said it consistently as have others, there shouldn't be a second referendum, some people agree some don't.
Bizarre to say you can't say it on this thread.

 

[Captain Dart]

This is what annoys me about this debate: Tony Blair (remember him?) on TV this morning talking about a second referendum: "“Both the Remain campaign, and the Leave campaign should jointly agree that this vote is final, doesn’t matter how marginal it is, it’s final. Once this is resolved then that’s it for a generation.”

That's what happened in the 2016 until loads of people on the losing side conveniently forgot about the above and tried to pretend the first vote was a glorified opinion poll and didn't actually require the government to get on with Brexit. I was pro-Remain but fair's fair, the winning side should see the result enacted, just as the other side had expected had it gone the other way.

Would that be the man that promised a referendum on voting reform before the 1997 election then dumped the idea when he got a massive majority.

 

[Astute]

Had to let it go? It sounds like your predictions of the UK holding all of the cards.

Making up things again I see.

You kept saying no deal. I said there was a deal to be made. I said it would be made at the very last minute.

So what has happened?

You made out they didn't need us but we needed them. If that was the case you would have been right for once.

 

[Sick Boy]

Making up things again I see.

You kept saying no deal. I said there was a deal to be made. I said it would be made at the very last minute.

So what has happened?

You made out they didn't need us but we needed them. If that was the case you would have been right for once.

You continually said that the EU would give into demands as the UK bought French cheese, Italian wine, went on holiday etc.

As expected it turned out to be a bollocks. If it all goes pear shaped I genuinely expect that you'll try and make out you were 100% remain.

I reality I actually said that the UK will go for for the EEA option and still think it will do.

 

[clint van damme]

Making up things again I see.

You kept saying no deal. I said there was a deal to be made. I said it would be made at the very last minute.

So what has happened?

You made out they didn't need us but we needed them. If that was the case you would have been right for once.

the deal on the table is appalling.
Hopefully it will not get through parliament and I fully expect that to be the case. When you have remainers saying they'd rather have no deal and leavers saying they'd rather remain than have Mays deal that tells you all you need to know.

 

[Sick Boy]

the deal on the table is appalling.
Hopefully it will not get through parliament and I fully expect that to be the case. When you have remainers saying they'd rather have no deal and leavers saying they'd rather remain than have Mays deal that tells you all you need to know.

The fact that you have Brexiteers saying that we'd be better off staying in the EU than the deal says it all!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Any particular reason for saying that? Or are you just talking crap? Judging by the source of the likes you received, I would bet on „just talking crap“.

It's your double standards. You whine about people who hedge on Britain leaving the EU yet because Soros who is in the same game is a remainer he's ok.

 

[martcov]

It's your double standards. You whine about people who hedge on Britain leaving the EU yet because Soros who is in the same game is a remainer he's ok.

He is 89 years old and I have no knowledge of whether he is hedging on remainers getting another referendum.

 

[skybluetony176]

The fact that you have Brexiteers saying that we'd be better off staying in the EU than the deal says it all!

I think we need to be careful in getting into this brexiteers and leavers don’t like it so we shouldn’t. Look at what business leaders are saying about it. They’re almost unanimously backing it. MP’s aren’t and that’s not necessarily a good indication of how good or bad a deal it is given how much brexit has become a political football to play party politics between the parties with and how it’s being used within parties to try and force regime change. MP’s, I’m becoming more and more convinced are the last people we should be taking advice of on whether it’s a good deal or not.

 

[Grendel]

He is 89 years old and I have no knowledge of whether he is hedging on remainers getting another referendum.

He hedged in the early 90’s and is regarded as being responsible for financially ruining another country for s generation

 

[Grendel]

You continually said that the EU would give into demands as the UK bought French cheese, Italian wine, went on holiday etc.

As expected it turned out to be a bollocks. If it all goes pear shaped I genuinely expect that you'll try and make out you were 100% remain.

I reality I actually said that the UK will go for for the EEA option and still think it will do.

Again you miss the point that the whole standpoint was to continue concede to the Eu.

If May was serious about no deal Brexit preparations would have begun to prepare for that from day 1. There would have been no divorce payment discussion either.