The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (255 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I think that its bullshit - it is BSB who thinks you need to hop along before you have a view. Mart yes is very pro German I agree

I’m just trying to find a way of explaining how you can think a 4th Reich is afoot. If you’d never been it could make sense. If you have, it makes even less sense

 

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[skybluetony176]

No I think that its bullshit - it is BSB who thinks you need to hop along before you have a view. Mart yes is very pro German I agree

What’s bullshit?

 

[Grendel]

I’m just trying to find a way of explaining how you can think a 4th Reich is afoot. If you’d never been it could make sense. If you have, it makes even less sense

Its already happened

 

[Grendel]

What’s bullshit?

That you need to have a holiday somewhere to understand an economic ideology

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Its already happened

You do realise that the French thought a single currency would curtail German influence? Drop the 4th Reich nonsense it’s embarrassing

 

[skybluetony176]

That you need to have a holiday somewhere to understand an economic ideology

You’re the one who mentioned that you have been to Germany 50 times as if it adds weight to your argument. No one else.

 

[martcov]

Well I would say the bright young things are fairly thick as they voted to remain and oddly think Corbyn is a Remainer as they lazily could not be bothered to check his history and associated leave with right wing policies - "they are all Nazis" doh - with no understanding a true socialist ideology finds Federalism disgusting and repugnant.

I once tried to explain this to some bright young things. They said I was a Nazi c**t and then when I said that Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn was a passionate anti EU campaigner one said he must be like the other posh c**t Rees Mogg. At that point I decided education was futile.

They were half right.

 

[martcov]

No I think that its bullshit - it is BSB who thinks you need to hop along before you have a view. Mart yes is very pro German I agree

It is not being pro German to point out that Germany is no longer a Nazi state and that the EU is not the 4. Reich. Any sane person knows that.

 

[martcov]

Its already happened

You really are insane.

 

[martcov]

I have been to Germany around 50 times?

Haha. And you came to the conclusion that Germany was a Nazi state with Frau Merkel as a dictator. No free press. No democracy. Concentration camps. A large military presence throughout the country. And no dark skinned people in sight.

You really are the most insane person here. And you have beaten a strong field of competitors.

You refuse to acknowledge the obvious similarities in tactics and rhetoric to Nazis in the country where you live most of your life, but can see all these non existent things on your 50 visits to Germany.

Stark staring bonkers and a classic Brexiteer. Such people as yourself are responsible for the mess the UK is in.

 

[martcov]

Its already happened

Craaaazy.

 

[martcov]

Your interpretation of what was said is deranged an absurd
The irony is you support an institution which is essentially the type of economic Europe Hitler strived for and call out the very people who want freedom from it

Actually it is exactly the same as Farage is proposing.

„Hitler in speech 1935: "We National Socialists believe a man can, in the long run, be happy only among his own people. We are convinced the happiness and achievements of Europe are indissolubly tied up with the continuation of the system of independent and free national States."“

 

[martcov]

That you need to have a holiday somewhere to understand an economic ideology

Here is one opinion based on several opinions:

„The economics of fascism refers to the economic policies implemented by fascist governments. Historians and other scholars disagree on the question of whether a specifically fascist type of economic policy can be said to exist. Baker argues that there is an identifiable economic system in fascism that is distinct from those advocated by other ideologies, comprising essential characteristics that fascist nations shared.[1] Payne, Paxton, Sternhell et al. argue that while fascist economies share some similarities, there is no distinctive form of fascist economic organization.[2] Feldman and Mason argue that fascism is distinguished by an absence of coherent economic ideology and an absence of serious economic thinking. They state that the decisions taken by fascist leaders cannot be explained within a logical economic framework.[3]“

They are prepared to risk an economic hit because of ideology, and ignore a logical economic framework. „It was never about economics“. Who said that?

 

[Grendel]

Here is one opinion based on several opinions:

„The economics of fascism refers to the economic policies implemented by fascist governments. Historians and other scholars disagree on the question of whether a specifically fascist type of economic policy can be said to exist. Baker argues that there is an identifiable economic system in fascism that is distinct from those advocated by other ideologies, comprising essential characteristics that fascist nations shared.[1] Payne, Paxton, Sternhell et al. argue that while fascist economies share some similarities, there is no distinctive form of fascist economic organization.[2] Feldman and Mason argue that fascism is distinguished by an absence of coherent economic ideology and an absence of serious economic thinking. They state that the decisions taken by fascist leaders cannot be explained within a logical economic framework.[3]“

They are prepared to risk an economic hit because of ideology, and ignore a logical economic framework. „It was never about economics“. Who said that?

Why would a reich be facist?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why would a reich be facist?

What else would the successor to the Third Reich be?

 

[Grendel]

What else would the successor to the Third Reich be?

It’s merely a term for empire - this is an empire of economic control and the economic control is dictated by the terms of the must powerful banker - which is Germany - I will explain in the morning

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s merely a term for empire - this is an empire of economic control and the economic control is dictated by the terms of the must powerful banker - which is Germany - I will explain in the morning

It hasn't been used even by the Germans to mean 'empire' since the days of the Kaiser

Membership of the single currency limits German economic power, it doesn't amplify it

There is no conspiracy for a German conquest of Europe, even in the economic terms you describe. It is one of the world's largest economies by its own merit. Those calling '4th Reich' haven't moved on from 1945

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s merely a term for empire - this is an empire of economic control and the economic control is dictated by the terms of the must powerful banker - which is Germany - I will explain in the morning

Do you speech write for Gerard Batten perchance?

 

[dutchman]

It didn’t claim, it did.

That remains to be seen:

ECB Open to Resuming Quantitative-Easing if Needed, Says Draghi

The European Central Bank is ready to use all its policy tools to support Europe’s softening economy, including by restarting a recently shelved bond-buying program, ECB President Mario Draghi said.

It didn’t claim, it did. There’s pressure on the ECB to launch new stimulus packages yes, not including quantitative easing though. What are you basing it having to pump more money in that it ever has before on exactly?

The law of diminishing returns. Each wave of QE has had less effect on stimulating the economy than the one before it.

Also you can't 'taper' a Ponzi scheme which is what QE is essentially.

 

[martcov]

That remains to be seen:

ECB Open to Resuming Quantitative-Easing if Needed, Says Draghi

The European Central Bank is ready to use all its policy tools to support Europe’s softening economy, including by restarting a recently shelved bond-buying program, ECB President Mario Draghi said.


The law of diminishing returns. Each wave of QE has had less effect on stimulating the economy than the one before it.

Also you can't 'taper' a Ponzi scheme which is what QE is essentially.

How many billions did Carney have put into the British economy to avert disaster after the referendum?

 

[martcov]

It hasn't been used even by the Germans to mean 'empire' since the days of the Kaiser

Membership of the single currency limits German economic power, it doesn't amplify it

There is no conspiracy for a German conquest of Europe, even in the economic terms you describe. It is one of the world's largest economies by its own merit. Those calling '4th Reich' haven't moved on from 1945

TBF.. the Nazis referred to their territory as a Reich. They annexed Austria and the Sudetenland and were had Bohemia as a protectorate. They intended increasing the size of it by taking territories in the East, starting with Poland and then the Baltics.

The EU does not allow fascism or taking over territory. It is democratic and voluntarily. All countries have a say and veto rights. Empires don’t allow their controlled countries a say. The EU doesn’t allow racism.

Neither do they allow an article 50 to be able for colonies to leave.

Calling Germany a 4. Reich implies fascism as that was what the 3. Reich was. Grendel, like all leavers who use that term, knows full well what the assumption is. Even if he is now rapidly backtracking.

 

[dutchman]

How many billions did Carney have put into the British economy to avert disaster after the referendum?

You mean the 'disaster' of Sterling rising and Carney slashing interest rates to bring it down again after previously claiming he would be forced to raise them if people voted 'leave'?

 

[martcov]

It’s merely a term for empire - this is an empire of economic control and the economic control is dictated by the terms of the must powerful banker - which is Germany - I will explain in the morning

No, it doesn’t have to fascist, but seeing as the third one was, people presume the fourth one is, or will be.

The people leavers are feeding don’t bother to google what the word Reich actually means.

„Third Reich, official Nazidesignation for the regime in Germany from January 1933 to May 1945, as the presumed successor of the medieval and early modern Holy Roman Empire of 800 to 1806 (the First Reich) and the German Empireof 1871 to 1918 (the Second Reich).“

The EU involves the UK. The Germans lobbied for the UK to be able to join. The UK includes the banking capital of Europe if not the world. Euro clearing is carried out in London. Exactly the opposite of what a 4. Reich would want.

If anything, Brexit will give more power to Germany and leave a Franco German „Reich“ as the lead power in Europe whilst reducing the UK to dependence on the USA.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

TBF.. the Nazis referred to their territory as a Reich. They annexed Austria and the Sudetenland and were had Bohemia as a protectorate. They intended increasing the size of it by taking territories in the East, starting with Poland and then the Baltics.

The EU does not allow fascism or taking over territory. It is democratic and voluntarily. All countries have a say and veto rights. Empires don’t allow their controlled countries a say. The EU doesn’t allow racism.

Neither do they allow an article 50 to be able for colonies to leave.

Calling Germany a 4. Reich implies fascism as that was what the 3. Reich was. Grendel, like all leavers who use that term, knows full well what the assumption is. Even if he is now rapidly backtracking.

Yup but the Nazis didn’t think of it as an empire. Either way ‘4th Reich’ only has one connotation

 

[martcov]

You mean the 'disaster' of Sterling rising and Carney slashing interest rates to bring it down again after previously claiming he would be forced to raise them if people voted 'leave'?

Sterling and banking shares fell after Brexit referendum and sterling will only rise again when we commit to remain or as near to it as possible. It will fall further if we have a hard Brexit. A hard Brexit will destroy the economy as everyone, including Farage knows. The people backing a hard Brexit are the very wealthy and the least educated. A strange combination.

Carney‘s reaction was to stabilize the economy and prevent a further collapse of currency and the banks‘ share prices which could have led to major loss of confidence in the UK financial system.

Mark Carney has said the Bank of England is ready to inject £250bn into economy

 

[Grendel]

Thats a 3 year old link and he didn’t

 

[Astute]

Sterling and banking shares fell after Brexit referendum and sterling will only rise again when we commit to remain or as near to it as possible. It will fall further if we have a hard Brexit. A hard Brexit will destroy the economy as everyone, including Farage knows. The people backing a hard Brexit are the very wealthy and the least educated. A strange combination.

Carney‘s reaction was to stabilize the economy and prevent a further collapse of currency and the banks‘ share prices which could have led to major loss of confidence in the UK financial system.

Mark Carney has said the Bank of England is ready to inject £250bn into economy

All you have done is proved how wrong those that said how bad it would become were. And you want us to believe them now. Yet they have changed their tune. Mass unemployment didn't happen like they said it would. House prices didn't crash as they said they would. Inflation didn't fly as they said it would.

And I suppose I am anti EU for saying so.....

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

All you have done is proved how wrong those that said how bad it would become were. And you want us to believe them now. Yet they have changed their tune. Mass unemployment didn't happen like they said it would. House prices didn't crash as they said they would. Inflation didn't fly as they said it would.

And I suppose I am anti EU for saying so.....

It’s not an exact science you know that. It’s best guess based on the past. People get those things wrong it’s not just bias

 

[skybluetony176]

That remains to be seen:

ECB Open to Resuming Quantitative-Easing if Needed, Says Draghi

The European Central Bank is ready to use all its policy tools to support Europe’s softening economy, including by restarting a recently shelved bond-buying program, ECB President Mario Draghi said.


The law of diminishing returns. Each wave of QE has had less effect on stimulating the economy than the one before it.

Also you can't 'taper' a Ponzi scheme which is what QE is essentially.

The article you link is woefully out of date already. The ECB has been talking about stimulus packages for the Eurozone just this month and ruled out QE. You’re portraying what you want to have happened and want to happen not what has happened or is happening. Reality is making you wrong.

 

[martcov]

All you have done is proved how wrong those that said how bad it would become were. And you want us to believe them now. Yet they have changed their tune. Mass unemployment didn't happen like they said it would. House prices didn't crash as they said they would. Inflation didn't fly as they said it would.

And I suppose I am anti EU for saying so.....

Every time it looks as if we will get agreement on some form of a deal, sterling rises. Every time it looks like no deal, sterling falls. Why do you think that is? Does the clever money think that Brexit is a good idea as Dutchman suggests?

 

[martcov]

All you have done is proved how wrong those that said how bad it would become were. And you want us to believe them now. Yet they have changed their tune. Mass unemployment didn't happen like they said it would. House prices didn't crash as they said they would. Inflation didn't fly as they said it would.

And I suppose I am anti EU for saying so.....

No, all I’ve proved is that Dutchman was talking bollocks.

 

[Grendel]

Every time it looks as if we will get agreement on some form of a deal, sterling rises. Every time it looks like no deal, sterling falls. Why do you think that is? Does the clever money think that Brexit is a good idea as Dutchman suggests?

Currency moves in uncertain times and devaluation of currency is not always a bad thing and will always return upwards once leave became the status quo - the lack of ability for a single nation to devalue as a strategy is however a very bad thing.

You want a second referendum - the announcement of that would send the pound tumbling but oddly you don’t care if it’s that scenario

 

[martcov]

Currency moves in uncertain times and devaluation of currency is not always a bad thing and will always return upwards once leave became the status quo - the lack of ability for a single nation to devalue as a strategy is however a very bad thing.

You want a second referendum - the announcement of that would send the pound tumbling but oddly you don’t care if it’s that scenario

No it wouldn’t. The pound would go up on the possibility of ending this disaster. We didn’t devalue as a strategy. We are at the mercy of the markets.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Currency moves in uncertain times and devaluation of currency is not always a bad thing and will always return upwards once leave became the status quo - the lack of ability for a single nation to devalue as a strategy is however a very bad thing.

You want a second referendum - the announcement of that would send the pound tumbling but oddly you don’t care if it’s that scenario

Any time it looks like Brexit won’t happen the pound rises.

 

[Grendel]

No it wouldn’t. The pound would go up on the possibility of ending this disaster. We didn’t devalue as a strategy. We are at the mercy of the markets.

Of course it wouldn’t markets don’t function on random possibilities - talk about other people talking bollocks