The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Martcov has been cheering on Scotland to independence on this very thread for Scotland which will mean hard borders and WTO terms

Why will it?

 

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[Grendel]

Why will it?

Er they will want to stay in the EU therefore the rest of the uk will as a non Eu country have a hard border with it so any goods going into and out of England will have the same issues as flowing through the two Irish countries

 

[skybluetony176]

Er they will want to stay in the EU therefore the rest of the uk will as a non Eu country have a hard border with it so any goods going into and out of England will have the same issues as flowing through the two Irish countries

So only in a no deal situation then. It’s not a given.

 

[Grendel]

So only in a no deal situation then. It’s not a given.

But the argument from Scotland is the harder the brexit the greater the argument for self governance

 

[skybluetony176]

But the argument from Scotland is the harder the brexit the greater the argument for self governance

Scotland as a stand-alone country is a nett receiver from the EU and by some distance compared to what it puts in. Any Brexit is an argument for independence from the U.K. for Scotland, WTO or not. Even since the referendum EU membership has become more attractive to Scotland with EU trade deals with Japan and Canada being especially attractive.

 

[Grendel]

Scotland as a stand-alone country is a nett receiver from the EU and by some distance compared to what it puts in. Any Brexit is an argument for independence from the U.K. for Scotland, WTO or not. Even since the referendum EU membership has become more attractive to Scotland with EU trade deals with Japan and Canada being especially attractive.

Isn’t 60% of trade from Scotland into other areas of the UK?

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn’t 60% of trade from Scotland into other areas of the UK?

Northern Ireland being the biggest part of that and Northern Ireland looking more likely to stay the n the EU than Scotland at the moment. Another incentive for Scottish independence.

 

[martcov]

I’m not opposed to independence at all. Surely what’s more confusing is remain voters bigging up the benefits of self governance, WTO and hard borders with Ireland

? Who is doing that?

 

[Grendel]

Northern Ireland being the biggest part of that and Northern Ireland looking more likely to stay the n the EU than Scotland at the moment. Another incentive for Scottish independence.

Are they? And what is the split exactly?

 

[martcov]

Why? You prefer centralism don’t you?

Of course I don’t. I prefer a real union of countries. Not as the UK is now, but more like the EU or the German Federal system.

 

[Astute]

No. You made that up.

No country wants to leave the EU ( apart from the UK ). No country wants to power back. Where are you getting your facts from?

Made what up?

So you are changing the subject again. Did the EU break EU law to appoint Selmayr. Yes or no. You have made out they didn't. Just be straight to the point.

So what have i made up? It isn't me who makes things up.

The leaders of the countries in the EU want to take power back. True. They have had enough of the way it is run. They want reforms. The only reform on offer is what keeps those in power who elect each other in. It backfired badly with Selmayr. They have kept it as a closed shop as you are supposed to have a certain position to be able to go for other positions. This is how they control who gets what. But Selmayr didn't have that position. So they gave him the position needed then 10 minutes later gave him the position they wanted him to have.

 

[Astute]

No we don’t. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland has a second tier government that England doesn’t. Hence we don’t all have the same rules.

So what rules are different?

Can they set their own budgets?

Can they raise their own taxes?

What can they do?

 

[Astute]

I'm not arguing that the Scottish independence movement is full of inconsistencies in being anti-UK but wanting to stay in the EU. It wasn't long ago Salmond et al were saying they'd reject the pound and take the Euro. Then the Euro crashed and suddenly they wanted to keep the pound. If after Brexit the pound is badly affected expect them to change their mind again.

It's a thing I don't get about many of those favouring leave. They don't want interference from the EU but most are fundamentally opposed to Scottish independence and the break up of the UK would be a terrible thing. They can't see that those Scots favouring independence see the UK in the same way as Leavers see the EU - interfering in their own affairs.

It's looking at parallels to the situation at different scales. Maybe we should look to leave the UN because it interferes in how each individual nation chooses to act?

Scotland were offered a referendum on to stay or leave. They chose to stay. If they chose to leave they would hapve left.

 

[martcov]

Martcov has been cheering on Scotland to independence on this very thread for Scotland which will mean hard borders and WTO terms

I am not cheering it on. I can see their point though ( SNP ). Brexit is an English thing primarily and I don’t agree with the, largely elderly, English Brexit voters pulling Scotland out of the EU. It is the ultimate hypocrisy given all the Farage crap about sovereignty and being ruled from a foreign city.

Any hard borders caused by Brexit directly, or indirectly, are a bad thing.

But, they are the responsibility of the Brexit voters. They wanted control of their borders, they wanted their independent country with control of their money. It would be poetic justice if the UK collapsed into 4 countries with all the extra controls and bureaucracy. Especially if all 3 smaller parts of the UK stayed in the EU. The ultimate Brexit, am independent, sovereign England with the Farage Party holding the majority in the English Parliament.

 

[martcov]

Made what up?

So you are changing the subject again. Did the EU break EU law to appoint Selmayr. Yes or no. You have made out they didn't. Just be straight to the point.

So what have i made up? It isn't me who makes things up.

The leaders of the countries in the EU want to take power back. True. They have had enough of the way it is run. They want reforms. The only reform on offer is what keeps those in power who elect each other in. It backfired badly with Selmayr. They have kept it as a closed shop as you are supposed to have a certain position to be able to go for other positions. This is how they control who gets what. But Selmayr didn't have that position. So they gave him the position needed then 10 minutes later gave him the position they wanted him to have.

You made up my thoughts.

I have not made out they didn’t. I said what happened. They used the emergency way of appointment. Which is a rule. But were found to have concocted the emergency to fit the rule. Which was originally claimed to be bending the law to the limit, but in the final ombudsman‘s report, was found to have actually broken the law.

But, you have distracted from my criticism and not showed me an example of a country wanting powers back, or which powers you claim countries want back. You haven’t acknowledged Juncker‘s reforms or attempted reforms having said he doesn’t want reforms. You have told me which powers Merkel wants back and who is stopping her getting them back.

You keep on about „them“ and carry on the Farage cliches.

 

[Grendel]

I am not cheering it on. I can see their point though ( SNP ). Brexit is an English thing primarily and I don’t agree with the, largely elderly, English Brexit voters pulling Scotland out of the EU. It is the ultimate hypocrisy given all the Farage crap about sovereignty and being ruled from a foreign city.

Any hard borders caused by Brexit directly, or indirectly, are a bad thing.

But, they are the responsibility of the Brexit voters. They wanted control of their borders, they wanted their independent country with control of their money. It would be poetic justice if the UK collapsed into 4 countries with all the extra controls and bureaucracy. Especially if all 3 smaller parts of the UK stayed in the EU. The ultimate Brexit, am independent, sovereign England with the Farage Party holding the majority in the English Parliament.

You really are the gift that truly keeps on giving

 

[martcov]

So what rules are different?

Can they set their own budgets?

Can they raise their own taxes?

What can they do?

What are the powers of the Scottish Parliament? - Visit & Learn :  Scottish Parliament

 

[martcov]

So what rules are different?

Can they set their own budgets?

Can they raise their own taxes?

What can they do?

Since 2018: The new powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament include: a new Scottish rate of income tax to be in place from April 2016. new borrowing powers for the Scottish Government. ... the power to introduce new taxes, subject to agreement of the UK Government.

 

[martcov]

You really are the gift that truly keeps on giving

In what way? I have been to a funeral and listened to the older people and to the younger ones in my own family. The older ones were Farage and Johnson fans, and the younger ones were mainly remain. It was crass. The ones no longer economically involved, in the sense of earning a living, voting for something that will primarily have a negative effect on the people earning a living and paying their pensions.

My family seems to confirm the statistics of the leave vote.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ann Widdecombe says science may 'produce an answer' to being gay

 

[martcov]

Ann Widdecombe says science may 'produce an answer' to being gay

Elderly English lady. Comfortably off. Doesn’t like minorities. The epitome of a leaver.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

In what way? I have been to a funeral and listened to the older people and to the younger ones in my own family. The older ones were Farage and Johnson fans, and the younger ones were mainly remain. It was crass. The ones no longer economically involved, in the sense of earning a living, voting for something that will primarily have a negative effect on the people earning a living and paying their pensions.

My family seems to confirm the statistics of the leave vote.

Jesus Christ, you're still banging on and convincing no one. Go and join a local club or something.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Elderly English lady. Comfortably off. Doesn’t like minorities. The epitome of a leaver.

So what ? Does it arouse you sexually ?

 

[Grendel]

In what way? I have been to a funeral and listened to the older people and to the younger ones in my own family. The older ones were Farage and Johnson fans, and the younger ones were mainly remain. It was crass. The ones no longer economically involved, in the sense of earning a living, voting for something that will primarily have a negative effect on the people earning a living and paying their pensions.

My family seems to confirm the statistics of the leave vote.

Oh of course you have - so now you are polling people grieving at a funeral you really need therapy away from here

 

[Grendel]

Jesus Christ, you're still banging on and convincing no one. Go and join a local club or something.

He’s even harassing people at funerals the sick idiot

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Oh of course you have - so now you are polling people grieving at a funeral you really need therapy away from here

You'd actually like to think it was bullshit on this occasion .

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

He’s even harassing people at funerals the sick idiot

Notebook and pencil " excuse me, could I just ask you ……."

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Even he wouldn't stoop this low.

 

[Grendel]

Even he wouldn't stoop this low.

You can imaging can’t you he’s strolling up to people and them trying to escape

“Don’t leave me with that mad fucker he’ll be boring the arse of us about bloody brexit again”

 

[Sick Boy]

As i said earlier, the USA is going to take full advantage of the UK’s vulnerability, it’s hardly a surprise Trump is a massive fan of Brexit.

US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump all

His comment about fake news and then the recording proving he actually said something sums him up, he’s a fucking moron.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

You can imaging can’t you he’s strolling up to people and them trying to escape

“Don’t leave me with that mad fucker he’ll be boring the arse of us about bloody brexit again”

He could have asked if anyone needed life cover.....

 

[Grendel]

He could have asked if anyone needed life cover.....

I’m sure the old people he’s rubbished at the funeral will be delighted

 

[SkyblueBazza]

That's because they haven't had the bill for Brexit yet.

Good God!!! Has he actually accepted the UK wants to leave the EU???
Who? How? And when was this dramatic progress made???

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[SkyblueBazza]

Scotland as a stand-alone country is a nett receiver from the EU and by some distance compared to what it puts in. Any Brexit is an argument for independence from the U.K. for Scotland, WTO or not. Even since the referendum EU membership has become more attractive to Scotland with EU trade deals with Japan and Canada being especially attractive.

Funny how the net-receivers (not just Scotland) are so positive EU isn't it?

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[SkyblueBazza]

So what ? Does it arouse you sexually ?

He likes pigeonholes, and likes putting people into them. A bit like Farage perhaps?

Anyone who doesn't fit into his approved pigeonholes is bombarded or lambasted into submission until they fit!

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