The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (51 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Johnson has no actual solutions though and just seems to believe in some weird form of positive thinking.

Exactly, now lets give him a chance

 

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[Sick Boy]

Exactly, now lets give him a chance

Oh dear.

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear.

He’s going to throw loads of money at things. We are going to borrow like a drunken sailor

 

[CCFCSteve]

Do yourself a favour and don’t look at a recent poll of Conservative party members. They overwhelmingly couldn’t give a fuck if Scotland gained independence or Northern Ireland unites with the south so long as brexit happens. Quite ironic for a party who’s full name is the Conservative and Unionist Party. Northern Ireland especially they couldn’t give a fuck about which again is ironic because it’s the part of the union that is more entrenched in the union than any other part including England and also contains the most staunchly proud brits in the United Kingdom. There aren’t many places in the UK outside of Northern Ireland where the kirbstones are painted red white and blue, murals of the queen and previous English monarchs adhorn the streets, has national holidays to celebrate pivotal moments in British history. It’s also the only other country in the UK that uses god save the queen as it’s national anthem. But the conservatives say fuck em, grr brexit at any cost.

Bizarrely they also couldn’t give a fuck about their own party (over 50% would rather see their party destroyed than stay in the EU !!!). Let’s be honest it’s a small poll on a small proportion of leavers who are probably pretty fucked off that after three years we are still stuck in the EU after voting to leave

Ps not saying most polled aren’t weirdos !

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Positivity is essential but no replacement for cold hard negotiation. He’s a prat

 

[Sick Boy]

All that’s left is be positive and hope for the best.

Great.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Positivity is essential but no replacement for cold hard negotiation. He’s a prat

Maybe Pete but the situation has got to be played out.

The underlying fact is the EU have said the withdrawal agreement cannot be reopened, yet we/they know it cannot get through parliament ?!

Boris believes rightly or wrongly it can get through with changes ie removal (replacement !) of backstop and probably some other minor tweaks.

If the EU want a deal they just need to say let’s talk but they aren’t budging. I’m sure they’ve war gamed the scenarios but I think they might, for the first time in negotiations, have misjudged the situation, which isn't good for anyone. I think they hope parliament will be able to prevent a No deal and an extension will be required or an election will happen which may lead to us remaining - both currently appear unlikely.

The most likely outcomes are currently No Deal or an Election (not sure it will lead to us remaining though)

Love him or hate him, whats Boris supposed to do in the meantime ? Unless he’s an idiot....prepare for both !

 

[Grendel]

All that’s left is be positive and hope for the best.

Great.

No he’s going to borrow like a drunken sailor and give out sweeties to everyone

 

[Sick Boy]

No he’s going to borrow like a drunken sailor and give out sweeties to everyone

He won’t last a year.

 

[Sick Boy]

Maybe Pete but the situation has got to be played out.

The underlying fact is the EU have said the withdrawal agreement cannot be reopened, yet we/they know it cannot get through parliament ?!

Boris believes rightly or wrongly it can get through with changes ie removal (replacement !) of backstop and probably some other minor tweaks.

If the EU want a deal they just need to say let’s talk but they aren’t budging. I’m sure they’ve war gamed the scenarios but I think they might, for the first time in negotiations, have misjudged the situation, which isn't good for anyone. I think they hope parliament will be able to prevent a No deal and an extension will be required or an election will happen which may lead to us remaining - both currently appear unlikely.

The most likely outcomes are currently No Deal or an Election (not sure it will lead to us remaining though)

Love him or hate him, whats Boris supposed to do in the meantime ? Unless he’s an idiot....prepare for both !

Or the UK is going to have to budge, which is actually going to be much more likely.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Or the UK is going to have to budge, which is actually going to be much more likely.

But the withdrawal agreement has been rejected three times by parliament already ?!!

The only realistic way I can see that we can budge is by having an election to try to change the make up of parliament

 

[Sick Boy]

But the withdrawal agreement has been rejected three times by parliament already ?!!

The only realistic way I can see that we can budge is by having an election to try to change the make up of parliament

And it’s ironic that the likes of ERG have managed to stop Brexit from happening!

 

[CCFCSteve]

And it’s ironic that the likes of ERG have managed to stop Brexit from happening!

Agree, I’ve been saying that for ages ! Ideological idiots ! Like the hardline remainers that will partly be the cause of No Deal if it happens.

Crazy world !

 

[Deleted member 5849]

He won’t last a year.

I fear otherwise!

Promise the world, how you pay for it is someone else's problem in a few years time.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I fear otherwise!

Promise the world, how you pay for it is someone else's problem in a few years time.

Fuckin Tories, spending money !!:emoji_face_palm:

 

[CCFCSteve]

Seriously though. He’s kind of damned if he does stuff and damned if he doesn’t. The inertia of the last 2-3 years hasn’t helped anyone

 

[shmmeee]

Christ, there's some paranoia going on here.

Maybe just maybe Germany have been more efficient than us, structured their industry better than us, and haven't rested on their laurels looking to the past... like us.

Maybe they had a head start by enacting sensible education and industrial strategies that we designed to blunt the effects of far right populism.

 

[shmmeee]

Fuckin Tories, spending money !!:emoji_face_palm:

Tories always spend money. Tax cuts cost as much as new schools.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Love him or hate him, whats Boris supposed to do in the meantime ? Unless he’s an idiot....prepare for both !

Call another referendum with No Deal vs Remain and ensure it is legally binding. If enough people really want Brexit at any price it will happen, if opinion has changed, we can admit this was a mistake and forget about it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Boris Johnson clashes with Irish PM Leo Varadkar over Brexit backstop in first talks

Maybe if May went in with this attitude when negotiating the deal instead of being bullied she'd of got a better deal

Seems that the clown is shaping up to blame the EU for us leaving without a deal when we instigated the whole process and entrusted the process to Team Twat

 

[CCFCSteve]

Call another referendum with No Deal vs Remain and ensure it is legally binding. If enough people really want Brexit at any price it will happen, if opinion has changed, we can admit this was a mistake and forget about it

Firstly, there wasn’t a parliamentary majority for a second referendum. Secondly, ignoring the ERG and the extreme Brexiteers (weirdos as I’ve said before !) I’d imagine most of the Leavers don’t want a No Deal. Thirdly, give the man a chance, Boris has not even had the opportunity to see if any improvements could be made to the withdrawal agreement.

If you want to pick referendum extremes you could offer No Deal v Revoke article 50 and accept a more closely integrated Europe (which will undoubtedly happen).

That’s the problem with a lot of the No Deal talk, it’s not No Deal that most people are trying to stop, it’s still Brexit altogether.

I respect your view and honesty on the subject Brighton, it’s more than most of the staunch Remainers in the public eye.

 

[Grendel]

Call another referendum with No Deal vs Remain and ensure it is legally binding. If enough people really want Brexit at any price it will happen, if opinion has changed, we can admit this was a mistake and forget about it

No deal vs remain at the current terms? So if anything changes in terms of further integration you would accept a breach of that is not what many remainers want? You can’t just pigeon hole one side of the argument.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The paranoia is mostly coming from the few of you who believe the end of our world is nigh on October 31st if we leave (& I say 'if' because I will believe it when I see it), especially without a deal!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I've recently discovered that you're from the black country

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[martcov]

He’s going to throw loads of money at things. We are going to borrow like a drunken sailor

More likely he’ll give the promised tax cuts to the better off and water down tax avoidance laws. Most of the investments apart from more police and some military spending wil be kicked down the road until after the GE, which is why he is in effect already on the campaign trail.

 

[Sick Boy]

No deal vs remain at the current terms? So if anything changes in terms of further integration you would accept a breach of that is not what many remainers want? You can’t just pigeon hole one side of the argument.

The UK would be able to leverage some kind of exemption from closer integration and not be responsible for Eurozone bailouts, much like what Cameron agreed before the vote

 

[Sick Boy]

I've recently discovered that you're from the black country

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk

It explains a lot

 

[martcov]

No deal vs remain at the current terms? So if anything changes in terms of further integration you would accept a breach of that is not what many remainers want? You can’t just pigeon hole one side of the argument.

Who said remain at the current terms for eternity or else it doesn’t count? Remain assumes the EU will evolve as it always has done and would not be fit for purpose if it did not deal with challenges. We have vetos and we have article 50 if the EU actually does something terrible like becoming governed by a far right government.

 

[martcov]

Maybe Pete but the situation has got to be played out.

The underlying fact is the EU have said the withdrawal agreement cannot be reopened, yet we/they know it cannot get through parliament ?!

Boris believes rightly or wrongly it can get through with changes ie removal (replacement !) of backstop and probably some other minor tweaks.

If the EU want a deal they just need to say let’s talk but they aren’t budging. I’m sure they’ve war gamed the scenarios but I think they might, for the first time in negotiations, have misjudged the situation, which isn't good for anyone. I think they hope parliament will be able to prevent a No deal and an extension will be required or an election will happen which may lead to us remaining - both currently appear unlikely.

The most likely outcomes are currently No Deal or an Election (not sure it will lead to us remaining though)

Love him or hate him, whats Boris supposed to do in the meantime ? Unless he’s an idiot....prepare for both !

I don’t think the EU have misjudged the situation at all. BoJo blasts his way in. Opens his mouth and immediately makes a promise which in order to keep, he needs to convince parliament that it is a good tactic to threaten to shoot the UK in the foot to get the backstop taken out, the UK having suggested it in the first place. He has 22 days of parliament sitting to do this.

The clock is ticking. The preparations for no deal are going to cost fortunes for the UK government and UK businesses and farming.

It can only crash. He doesn’t have a mandate for no deal anyway and half the country don’t want Brexit. A GE is coming shortly. And then a PV. The last chance to stop this madness. No guarantees that either side will come out on top, but the deadlock has to be broken somehow. Worth at least a try. Not a good place for the country to be in.

 

[Grendel]

The UK would be able to leverage some kind of exemption from closer integration and not be responsible for Eurozone bailouts, much like what Cameron agreed before the vote

Which could be removed by one treaty which we could not at all control

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think the EU have misjudged the situation at all. BoJo blasts his way in. Opens his mouth and immediately makes a promise which in order to keep, he needs to convince parliament that it is a good tactic to threaten to shoot the UK in the foot to get the backstop taken out, the UK having suggested it in the first place. He has 22 days of parliament sitting to do this.

The clock is ticking. The preparations for no deal are going to cost fortunes for the UK government and UK businesses and farming.

It can only crash. He doesn’t have a mandate for no deal anyway and half the country don’t want Brexit. A GE is coming shortly. And then a PV. The last chance to stop this madness. No guarantees that either side will come out on top, but the deadlock has to be broken somehow. Worth at least a try. Not a good place for the country to be in.

I’m sure he will call a general election. So that’s the end - he will go on a 31 October exit and either he gets the majority in parliament or he doesn’t

Either way we will know then the final direction.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m sure he will call a general election. So that’s the end - he will go on a 31 October exit and either he gets the majority in parliament or he doesn’t

Either way we will know then the final direction.

It’d probably end up in a hung parliament

 

[Grendel]

It’d probably end up in a hung parliament

Even if Brexit stand down? Johnson would have 42% if they did on latest polling and the labour and Lib Dem’s are divided so I think he will have a real chance of a majority

 

[Sick Boy]

Even if Brexit stand down? Johnson would have 42% if they did on latest polling and the labour and Lib Dem’s are divided so I think he will have a real chance of a majority

I think it would depend on whether Johnson tried to push through a deal or not as to whether BP would step down or not. I can see Farage getting a role in a Johnson government still though, so who knows

 

[CCFCSteve]

I don’t think the EU have misjudged the situation at all. BoJo blasts his way in. Opens his mouth and immediately makes a promise which in order to keep, he needs to convince parliament that it is a good tactic to threaten to shoot the UK in the foot to get the backstop taken out, the UK having suggested it in the first place. He has 22 days of parliament sitting to do this.

The clock is ticking. The preparations for no deal are going to cost fortunes for the UK government and UK businesses and farming.

It can only crash. He doesn’t have a mandate for no deal anyway and half the country don’t want Brexit. A GE is coming shortly. And then a PV. The last chance to stop this madness. No guarantees that either side will come out on top, but the deadlock has to be broken somehow. Worth at least a try. Not a good place for the country to be in.

I’m not sure from what Geoffrey Cox recently said that parliament can stop No Deal, certainly not without an election, however, even if that happens it might not stop Brexit. I’m saying this without wanting a No Deal (as I have said many times before)

So, it comes back to whether the withdrawal agreement be amended sufficiently to get it through parliament. Without it being changed it can’t get through parliament. Mays tried as we know !

I say misjudged the situation as in this could end up being an accidental No Deal ie where neither side wants it but hasn’t got the will or the ability to move sufficiently to avoid it.

Ps I honestly can’t get my head around why the WA can’t be reopened/amended (when it obviously can’t get through parliament as it stands) ?

 

[shmmeee]

More likely he’ll give the promised tax cuts to the better off and water down tax avoidance laws. Most of the investments apart from more police and some military spending wil be kicked down the road until after the GE, which is why he is in effect already on the campaign trail.

Everything he’s said so far is campaigning bollocks. If you think it’ll survive past an election I’ve got a bridge to sell you.