The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (46 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did I sleep longer than I thought last night? I swear today is supposed to be Valentines Day not April Fools Day

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Erm.... am I being dumb but that doesn't mean the border wouldn't exist. We've still got a border at the Channel Tunnel.

Also a potential problem with Republicans being against it I reckon.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Ignoring the practicalities how would this even help the border issue? You've still got to have a border somewhere.

Northern Ireland will have left the Union before its finished.
The DUP are currently threatening to collapse the power sharing agreement and IIRC last time that happened it triggered assembly elections which to me sounds like a mistake for them that will be more ill advised than May’s decision to call a GE and could lead to a SDLP, Sinn Fein landslide. And that means a border poll.

 

[skybluetony176]

Erm.... am I being dumb but that doesn't mean the border wouldn't exist. We've still got a border at the Channel Tunnel.

Also a potential problem with Republicans being against it I reckon.

No. You’re not being dumb.

 

[clint van damme]

Haha!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Anyone who believed that wasn't going to happen just because Johhnson said so needs to have a good hard look at themselves.
Was obvious from the start that the only way to avoid it was staying in the customs union.

That would mean the delusional "loyal to Westminster" unionists would have to face up to the lack of reciprocity in that relationship

 

[shmmeee]

Always like John Harris on Brexit stuff. Generally very balanced for a Guardian writer. Some quite depressing stuff here, but also a key point about the Tories abandoning business and how that shifts the political landscape.

Seems to me a classical liberal party should be doing very well here, as should a populist left authoritarian party. No place for the two parties we have though: liberal socialists and right wing authoritarians.

Covid has damaged our small businesses. Now Brexit might finish them off | Business | The Guardian

 

[Seamus1]

Haha!

...and still spent £43m on it

 

[skybluetony176]

And the irony keeps coming

 

[skybluetony176]

Mmmm. I doubt anyone intentionally voted for this but the reality is you did.

People like Farage and Co have abandoned them, all they have left is the remoaners fighting their corner.

 

[shmmeee]

Mmmm. I doubt anyone intentionally voted for this but the reality is you did.

People like Farage and Co have abandoned them, all they have left is the remoaners fighting their corner.

He should just sign up for Farages “How to make money out of Brexit” seminars I keep seeing advertised.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is worth a read also

 

[ccfc1234]

Always like John Harris on Brexit stuff. Generally very balanced for a Guardian writer. Some quite depressing stuff here, but also a key point about the Tories abandoning business and how that shifts the political landscape.

Seems to me a classical liberal party should be doing very well here, as should a populist left authoritarian party. No place for the two parties we have though: liberal socialists and right wing authoritarians.

Covid has damaged our small businesses. Now Brexit might finish them off | Business | The Guardian

The right wing at its most oppressive opposes migrants, helps the wealthy and guts the welfare state and labor rights

The left wing has seemingly forgotten what Liberal means and have instead become obsessed with defending the rights of unqualified illegal migrants and focusing on identity politics.

This has created a sad state in many Western Democracies. Who the hell are you supposed to vote for if you simply want strong borders to ensure legal immigration works for all and well funded progressive welfare state?

 

[shmmeee]

The right wing at its most oppressive opposes migrants, helps the wealthy and guts the welfare state and labor rights

The left wing has seemingly forgotten what Liberal means and have instead become obsessed with defending the rights of unqualified illegal migrants and focusing on identity politics.

This has created a sad state in many Western Democracies. Who the hell are you supposed to vote for if you simply want strong borders to ensure legal immigration works for all and well funded progressive welfare state?

With you to an extent. But if you’re defending the rights of migrants by definition you’re defending them being treated according to the law. Lawyers can’t invent reasons to stay here, just prove existing reasons apply. If those reasons are wrong blame the people who wrote the immigration laws.

Also we have some of the strictest immigration laws on the planet so it’s hard to find where people actually want it tightened up.

 

[ccfc1234]

With you to an extent. But if you’re defending the rights of migrants by definition you’re defending them being treated according to the law. Lawyers can’t invent reasons to stay here, just prove existing reasons apply. If those reasons are wrong blame the people who wrote the immigration laws.

Also we have some of the strictest immigration laws on the planet so it’s hard to find where people actually want it tightened up.

My point is much wider than immigration, which I think gets far too much press attention. However, as you asked, I feel a truly progressive immigration system is one that looks at need and also economic requirements such as acute skills shortages in key industries. But your right the underpinning legislation should be reviewed.

In truth immigration is a multinational situation and needs a global solution. Looking at population projections, European counties could grant citizenship to 30 million immigrants a year and because of the inequalities in the world and the birth rate in developing nations, the EU could do this every year and it would still not satisfy the demand of people who understandably want to flee to or make a better life in the UK/EU.

That conundrum and big question is one successive governments in the uk/EU seemingly want to ignore.

 

[fernandopartridge]

My point is much wider than immigration, which I think gets far too much press attention. However, as you asked, I feel a truly progressive immigration system is one that looks at need and also economic requirements such as acute skills shortages in key industries. But your right the underpinning legislation should be reviewed.

In truth immigration is a multinational situation and needs a global solution. Looking at population projections, European counties could grant citizenship to 30 million immigrants a year and because of the inequalities in the world and the birth rate in developing nations, the EU could do this every year and it would still not satisfy the demand of people who understandably want to flee to or make a better life in the UK/EU.

That conundrum is the big question and one successive governments in the uk/EU seemingly want to ignore.

What's the answer then?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

My point is much wider than immigration, which I think gets far too much press attention. However, as you asked, I feel a truly progressive immigration system is one that looks at need and also economic requirements such as acute skills shortages in key industries. But your right the underpinning legislation should be reviewed.

In truth immigration is a multinational situation and needs a global solution. Looking at population projections, European counties could grant citizenship to 30 million immigrants a year and because of the inequalities in the world and the birth rate in developing nations, the EU could do this every year and it would still not satisfy the demand of people who understandably want to flee to or make a better life in the UK/EU.

That conundrum and big question is one successive governments in the uk/EU seemingly want to ignore.

I agree on the whole with you rpoint to which the most obvious path to a solution is "make it so they don't want/need to leave their country of birth/origin".

But that involves providing aid, education and sharing of economic opportunities with those poorer nations to help themselves. yet the people that oppose such things tend to be the same ones that absolutely don't want immigration. They want everything done for them and their people's benefit and then get outraged when others want a part of it. There's absolutely no joined-up thinking going on in their heads at all.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see leavers are now challenging the Brexit deal in court. I wonder if they’ve tried just being positive about it? Isn’t that supposed to be the cure all?

 

[PVA]

Wow.

 

[Grendel]

I agree on the whole with you rpoint to which the most obvious path to a solution is "make it so they don't want/need to leave their country of birth/origin".

But that involves providing aid, education and sharing of economic opportunities with those poorer nations to help themselves. yet the people that oppose such things tend to be the same ones that absolutely don't want immigration. They want everything done for them and their people's benefit and then get outraged when others want a part of it. There's absolutely no joined-up thinking going on in their heads at all.

Well not really. The EU and especially currency equalisation is set to exploit the weaker countries within in to benefit the wealthier nations

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Wow.

Err...not really sure why there is any shock or surprise regarding this......The UKEF has been around & doing this kind of stuff for over 100 years....and most major economies have an equivalent scheme.

.....Nothing to see here except some ill-informed remainer bitter twitter litter

 

[PVA]

Err...not really sure why there is any shock or surprise regarding this......The UKEF has been around & doing this kind of stuff for over 100 years....and most major economies have an equivalent scheme.

.....Nothing to see here except some ill-informed remainer bitter twitter litter

Yeah except the fact that they're opening it up to smaller businesses, because they are being crippled by Brexit.

It wasn't necessary before Brexit. Now we need to subsidise the buyers and/or cover costs for our exporters.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah except the fact that they're opening it up to smaller businesses, because they are being crippled by Brexit.

It wasn't necessary before Brexit. Now we need to subsidise the buyers and/or cover costs for our exporters.

Yeah but apart from that...

 

[PVA]

Brexit-backing Sunderland says it is not receiving same level of funding outside EU

Brexit-backing Sunderland says it is not receiving same level of funding outside EU

"I don’t think the Government has any intention to give us pound for pound what we had,” Council leader Graeme Miller said.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Brexit-backing Sunderland says it is not receiving same level of funding outside EU

Brexit-backing Sunderland says it is not receiving same level of funding outside EU

"I don’t think the Government has any intention to give us pound for pound what we had,” Council leader Graeme Miller said.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

.....and thats funny why?

The North East isn't receiving less money because they voted to leave the EU......its going to receive less money because its a working class northern labour stronghold being shat on by a southern-centric Tory Government.......


...ha ha ha...hilarious.

 

[skybluetony176]

.....and thats funny why?

The North East isn't receiving less money because they voted to leave the EU......its going to receive less money because its a working class northern labour stronghold being shat on by a southern-centric Tory Government.......


...ha ha ha...hilarious.

So you’re saying that Sunderland would have been better off voting remain so they don’t get abused by the Tories? #Interesting #projectfear

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

So you’re saying that Sunderland would have been better off voting remain so they don’t get abused by the Tories? #Interesting #projectfear

Ha ha...are you seriously suggesting that if the country had voted to remain, then the tories would no longer shit all over the labour voting northern regions ever again....ha ha. #awaywiththefairies

 

[clint van damme]

Ha ha...are you seriously suggesting that if the country had voted to remain, then the tories would no longer shit all over the labour voting northern regions ever again....ha ha. #awaywiththefairies

They'd still be getting the EU funding hilighted in the article which it looks like central government isn't going to replace in full though.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

They'd still be getting the EU funding hilighted in the article which it looks like central government isn't going to replace in full though.

Exactly. A tory decision to reduce funding for the region.

 

[clint van damme]

Exactly. A tory decision to reduce funding for the region.

So therefore was it a mistake to vote leave, denying themselves money from the EU and foolishly believing the government would match it.
Same happening in Cornwall and I believe deprived parts of the North West.
It seems a lot of working class communities believed the bollocks they were fed when history should have told them what would happen.

 

[Ian1779]

Exactly. A tory decision to reduce funding for the region.

it’s the same for the whole North... what they’ve managed to do is blame Labour for it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So therefore was it a mistake to vote leave, denying themselves money from the EU and foolishly believing the government would match it.
Same happening in Cornwall and I believe deprived parts of the North West.
It seems a lot of working class communities believed the bollocks they were fed when history should have told them what would happen.

Part of the reason we were net contributors to an EU budget was because it was about levelling up.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

So therefore was it a mistake to vote leave, denying themselves money from the EU and foolishly believing the government would match it.
Same happening in Cornwall and I believe deprived parts of the North West.
It seems a lot of working class communities believed the bollocks they were fed when history should have told them what would happen.

Well...without wishing to go over old ground....Voting to leave the EU does not equal voting tory.

The people of this country can change the government of the day, but they cannot (and never could) change the EU.

it’s the same for the whole North... what they’ve managed to do is blame Labour for it.

.....and its just a crying shame that Corbyn & McDonnells Labour blew their chance by sitting on their hands, whilst on the fence, & gave the tories that opportunity.

Part of the reason we were net contributors to an EU budget was because it was about levelling up.

...and of course, had the country voted for a different colour government during the 2 opportunities it had to do so, levelling up could have been a real thing instead of a tory soundbite.

 

[clint van damme]

Well...without wishing to go over old ground....Voting to leave the EU does not equal voting tory.

The people of this country can change the government of the day, but they cannot (and never could) change the EU.



.....and its just a crying shame that Corbyn & McDonnells Labour blew their chance by sitting on their hands, whilst on the fence, & gave the tories that opportunity.

I agree It doesn't equate to voting Tory and I agree about Labour's 2019 debacle.
But if a fuck wit like me could see which way the wind was blowing I find it surprising others couldn't.
Unfortunately we are now very much heading into familiar territory where changing the government doesn't mean changing political direction.

 

[shmmeee]

.....and thats funny why?

The North East isn't receiving less money because they voted to leave the EU......its going to receive less money because its a working class northern labour stronghold being shat on by a southern-centric Tory Government.......


...ha ha ha...hilarious.

Well...without wishing to go over old ground....Voting to leave the EU does not equal voting tory.

The people of this country can change the government of the day, but they cannot (and never could) change the EU.



.....and its just a crying shame that Corbyn & McDonnells Labour blew their chance by sitting on their hands, whilst on the fence, & gave the tories that opportunity.

Voting to Leave and hand complete control of the job of creating legislation after we leave to the Tory Party, basically is voting Tory. More so arguably than in a GE. Like voting Super Tory.