The EU referendum (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Gove and IDS want to leave, thats enough for me to want to stay
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
It will be a massive spin campaign by most of the media, especially the BBC to stay in. I'm waiting with baited breath for the horror stories of what will probably (if you want to believe the bullshit) happen should we leave the eu.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Do him out of a job if we leave won't it?
oakey
Well-Known Member
Cameron vanity project. Four months wasted on a sideshow so that he doesn't have to do anything useful at home and abroad. If he wins he will be hailed as a statesman rather than the timewaster he is. Meanwhile the economy bumps along the bottom, the public services dwindle away and major world problems get ignored. If he loses his head should be on a spike on tower bridge.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Really? Dislike them you may, but argue they've not done well with the economy is crazy.
Personally don't know enough about whether we should stay in or leave the eu and consider myself reasonably intelligent and informed, so to let the masses have a referendum when most of the eligible vote is unlikely to understand, is a coin flip and a risk imo. Whatever happens it seems like we will have greater power going forward, whether in or out and that is surely a benefit.
Personally don't know enough about whether we should stay in or leave the eu and consider myself reasonably intelligent and informed, so to let the masses have a referendum when most of the eligible vote is unlikely to understand, is a coin flip and a risk imo. Whatever happens it seems like we will have greater power going forward, whether in or out and that is surely a benefit.
I agree with Nick, need a list of reasons what we would gain if loose either way.
The Problem I can see is the average man on street will vote to leave as we do not understand the whole picture.
Imigration will be a major factor, we need it but a lot of what we are getting just add to our plight.
The Problem I can see is the average man on street will vote to leave as we do not understand the whole picture.
Imigration will be a major factor, we need it but a lot of what we are getting just add to our plight.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I have no idea which way I will vote as nobody has given me a decent reason to vote either way, whatever would rid this country of Gove, The fool Johnson and Hunt would be a good way to go. I imagine there must be a few mep's with squeaky bums that their gravy train may be coming towards an end goodbye the Kinnock family.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Correct. They'd just be another referendum until we got it right.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
This is very ill informed.
The only reason this was ever in the manifesto was to try and blunt the Ukip rise.
Cameron is a europhile through and through. He never believed they would get an overall majority so this is the last thing he wanted.
He believed that he would have another alliance and it would not happen.
The months of negotiation are a facade - this deal was agreed months ago and the extra late night dealing is a circus act.
As for the economy bumping along the bottom take a European tour and see what the bottom really looks like.
Sumo the Micky Quinn
Well-Known Member
I can only mention what happens here in the Canary Islands.
I know ex-work colleagues who are on the same wage as the year 2000, Not a cent more. I know they are on the same money we were on when I worked with them in 2009. Overtime doesn't exist here, We are paid a monthly salary whether you do 1 hour or 12 hours a day 7 days a week.
Also over here they recently changed laws so companies could cut salaries rather than go bust.
Another company did this to me, accept the pay reduction or leave. This very same company has just set up another company to get around keeping people on a one year + 'indefinedo' contract. Switch contracts between the 2 companies.
Everyone who starts here are put on short term contracts, no longer than 6 months. - If your lucky enough to work for a decent company.
Most Brits work here cash in hand in bars - No contracts - Which means you don't pay into the system. If you don't pay into the system here and you go out of work you CAN NOT claim 'unemployment benefit', Because here everyone European is treated the same as the Spanish - You can only claim what you have paid in, When that's gone you get NOTHING. I regularly see people outside supermarkets with cards in Spanish & English begging for help.
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Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
I just hope the Isle of Wight gets independence from the UK. Passports at the ready! 
oakey
Well-Known Member
The UK economy remains in painfully slow growth. Of course you can say other countries are worse. Many economists believe the tories have made a pig's ear of managing the recovery.
I am not ill-informed. I read the Telegraph, Spectator, New Statesman, Observer, Huffington Post amongst others. I know that economists are very divided on what measures governments should take. So to say the tories have managed the economy well is your opinion, not a fact.
I am not a fan of referendums. They waste time that should be spent governing and they don't settle the debate anyway. You only need to look at Scotland and see the issue has just been kicked into the long grass.
Cameron is Flashman, a braggart not a leader.
I am not ill-informed. I read the Telegraph, Spectator, New Statesman, Observer, Huffington Post amongst others. I know that economists are very divided on what measures governments should take. So to say the tories have managed the economy well is your opinion, not a fact.
I am not a fan of referendums. They waste time that should be spent governing and they don't settle the debate anyway. You only need to look at Scotland and see the issue has just been kicked into the long grass.
Cameron is Flashman, a braggart not a leader.
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Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
The UK economy looks good in comparison to other nations in Europe but Cameron and Osborne have indeed made a pigs earned it and still seem to be blaming Labour for the Worldwide global rescission; the ridiculous thing is that the masses actually fall for it and still believe it to be true.
Cameron is nothing but a master of spin. His battling for Britain claims were painful and embarrassing.
Cameron is nothing but a master of spin. His battling for Britain claims were painful and embarrassing.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I was going to suggest the Canary Islands sounds pretty much like my job. No permanent contract (haven't had a permanent contract since, oh... 2008!). One job was particularly fun - they kept giving me a couple of months 'off' as it were where they barred access to the building, just so I couldn't claim consecutive service, and thus a
permanent contract...
Oh, and I earn less than in 2000.
But... we've never had it so good!
permanent contract...
Oh, and I earn less than in 2000.
But... we've never had it so good!
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Cameron is playing a clever game look who will be backing the leave the eu Gove probably Hunt and mad Boris so the people think I'm not backing that lot so may as well stop in.
oakey
Well-Known Member
What does the UK gain if he wins his game?
The euro-sceptic boil will not be lanced. Maybe the best we can hope for is that the nasty party is split and fails to recover? Also at least the media will stop obsessing over Labour and SNP, who have become an irrelevance for the next 4 years at least. All complete diversions from real world issues.
The euro-sceptic boil will not be lanced. Maybe the best we can hope for is that the nasty party is split and fails to recover? Also at least the media will stop obsessing over Labour and SNP, who have become an irrelevance for the next 4 years at least. All complete diversions from real world issues.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Same here. Since 2010 my salary hasn't increased (worked out the other day that in real terms I'm now earning £5K less than when I started with my current employer). Over that period 4 people have left and had their roles absorbed in to mine, another person left and their role was split between 2 of us.
Last week I was told we are likely being transferred to another company which will mean my commute is 4 times as long and that our salaries will probably be reduced.
Sumo the Micky Quinn
Well-Known Member
In Spain you are not really supposed to work with out a contract. When you start you are offered a contract usually 3-6 months.
The UK is different, I have never signed a contract with anyone I worked with in the UK.
Usually I attended a job interview, then afterwards if I was lucky I was usually told, this is the pay... these are the hours.... Start on Monday.... we'll give you a 4 week trial, if you want to leave give us 'x' notice and that's basically it.
My position I was in in 2000 was much more highly paid when i left the UK in 2009, but I was made redundant in 2005, so went into a much lower paid job. Even so, every year, with every company I received a yearly wage rise sometimes only 2p an hour, but a rise all the same.
My point was these guys over here, have worked for the same company since 2000, without a single pay rise. Bills still rise here, in fact in 2010 the electric companies changed the billing policy, from 2 monthly to monthly, charging on a monthly basis what they charged twice monthly.
Even people on minimum wage in the UK, have had it increase most years, This year I see it is to increase 50p an hour from £6.70 per hour. March 2015 increased by 20p an hour.
The company that asked me to take a pay cut, my salary went from €1000 per month to €400. Paid monthly, the law here also states if paid monthly must be paid by 6th of each month. The latest I was paid one month was the 27th. Hence why i no longer work for that company, and his drivers get very pissed off, usually last no more than 6 months.
oakey
Well-Known Member
You may be unaware of the public sector pay freeze for 3-5 years followed by 1% until at least 2020.
Many in the private sector are even worse off with hours cut, unpaid overtime expected etc.
We are better off than many countries but less so than such a rich country, which rode the recession of 2009 in reasonable shape, should expect.
Many in the private sector are even worse off with hours cut, unpaid overtime expected etc.
We are better off than many countries but less so than such a rich country, which rode the recession of 2009 in reasonable shape, should expect.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's the key point. There is money its just staying at the top.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Haven't the richest in the uk seen their wealth double since the recession whilst everyone one else is worse off because of wage increases being below cost of living rises?
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Sumo the Micky Quinn
Well-Known Member
This is what pissed us off, We were being told to take these pay cuts whilst the boss was spending company profits on his 'house extensions'.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Up until 6months or so ago I was definitely for remaining in Europe. I don't buy into the 'we have greater say' if we are on our own. The money men never make decisions based on my say so no matterwhich party in power. But I am changing my mind based on the seeming inability of so many countries to have an economic strategy, a security strategy or a welfare strategy. Procrastination is worse I think than making mistakes.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
That's not just in the private sector!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
tbh, Id like the arguments for and against!
Not sure Cameron helps the arguments for any more than Farage swings me to the against. It all seems a load of empty rhetoric, where nobody actually says what the benefits actually are...
The only thing that sways me is when Johnson and Gove are against, there's a mighty fine reason to vote for!
(I'd also be slightly concerned about the ramifications if we left. Trump winning the US Presidency, Putin becoming ever more belligerent, and the EU falling apart at the seams wouldn't exactly see me looking forward to the next few years...)
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
It's because the masses are too busy watching shit on television and looking on social media.
It's disgusting but it is never challenged and people believe whatever the media tells them. They blame their lack of money on skilled migrants and refugees.
What do you expect from a country that has a monarchy though? The British are the world's biggest cap doffers
It's disgusting but it is never challenged and people believe whatever the media tells them. They blame their lack of money on skilled migrants and refugees.
What do you expect from a country that has a monarchy though? The British are the world's biggest cap doffers
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Don't worry we now have special status!
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
You are right. Very uncertain times ahead for the world. Isis, Russia, trumps America as well as economic uncertainty, migrant crisis across the Middle East etc etc
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