vow
Well-Known Member
Technically.......Ukraine were the worst team!
but take your point.
The Next England Manager (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter TrueSkyBlueLiam
- Start date
but take your point.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well clearly some of our players would get in the Poland squad. The others you have mentioned are the best in Europe, so no of course our players wouldn't get in there.
We all know we can't compete with Spain and Germany and France and Belgium and Italy. We are an average side. Who has said we are anywhere near the top 8?
Russia put in a very determined, stubborn effort against us. Against Wales they had to win so pushed forwards more and left great big gaps at the back.
We will never know of course, but had Russia just needed a draw against Wales I am sure we would have seen a much similar display to that they gave against us.
You only have to look at the Wales goals to see that Russia had clearly given up and thrown in the towel.
Watch the highlights back and you will see defenders barely jogging back to try and prevent a goal. Agree though, Russia were dreadful. Against us however they just defended really deep in numbers and made it incredibly difficult to break them down.
Against Wales they barely tried at all and had resigned themselves to the fact they were going home.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Good point from Shearer talking about people blaming the PL or the academy system. Basically pointed out that this Wales team have come through the same system and are playing to a plan and playing for each other. That's the difference for me. When the going gets tough for England too many 'names' go into hiding.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yep. It is about building a team that plays as a team, not just picking a group of the 11 best individuals.
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
For me Hodgson takes 99% of the blame, players need to know what the plan is and Roy simply didn't have one.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Yep, become very apparent.
As Shearer said, all through qualifying we had a plan and a system. As soon as we got to France we seemed to chuck that out the window and chop and change and play people out of position and not know what our best team was.
The more you analyse it, the more you have to point the finger at Hodgson, though in saying that, that effort (if you can call it that) against Iceland by the players was truly dreadful.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Italy squad is bang average other than the defence, Conte has them playing out of there skin. We have some good players at club level but the national team is a mess. France, Belgium, Spain and Germany are the only teams you can definitely say have a better set of individuals than us.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Only have to look at two key decisions to see Hodgson didn't have the foggiest clue what he was doing going into the first match.
1. He took only one natural winger (who was woefully out of form) and then decided to play 433 all tournament, deciding to leave Walcott, Townsend and anyone who gives natural width back at home
2. He moved Rooney back into a central midfield position on a whim, having never tried it in a warm up match or showed any inclination he was planning to do it before the first match
It reminds me a little of Pressley when he lost Christie and bombed out Blair Adams and then thought it would be a great idea to play with wing backs.
And that's not even getting into the farce of the set pieces with Kane taking all corners and free kicks
Otis
Well-Known Member
I think he was determined to play Rooney come what may (the Slovakia game apart when he of course rested players) and therefore felt he had to keep him in midfield if he had to play combinations of Kane, Vardy, Sturridge etc. up front.
If we are to be a better team without Rooney then so be it. You don't just pick him because you think he is the best player.
We had it for years with Gerrard and Lampard, both of which were very good players, but we kept picking them to play together and it just about never came off.
I said we should have taken Townsend. I would have much rather had him in there and sacrificed either Sterling or Milner.
If we are to be a better team without Rooney then so be it. You don't just pick him because you think he is the best player.
We had it for years with Gerrard and Lampard, both of which were very good players, but we kept picking them to play together and it just about never came off.
I said we should have taken Townsend. I would have much rather had him in there and sacrificed either Sterling or Milner.
Pipehitterz
Well-Known Member
would love to see the next manager pick some players from chmpionship, these pampered premiership players are shit
or , the obvious one for all to see, pick players o form and play them
vardy the obvious starter
sterling should have been on his holidays,
it doesnt get much obvious than those 2
100% the managers fault, installed nothing into the team, we pissed wales and now wales are in the semi's ffs
or , the obvious one for all to see, pick players o form and play them
vardy the obvious starter
sterling should have been on his holidays,
it doesnt get much obvious than those 2
100% the managers fault, installed nothing into the team, we pissed wales and now wales are in the semi's ffs
Otis
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't go as far as that, but I would say they don't care enough.
Against Iceland we seemed to approach the game as if it was a training exercise and we strolled around, even when the clock was ticking down.
Lack of spirit and fight and they didn't care nearly enough. Wales played the game last night as if their lives depended on it.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
The whole organisation is out dated and overly wasteful and full of over paid pen pushers it needs a massive clear out and to get back to concentrating on the grass roots and not directors for this and that. Save some money move the head office to St Georges park from London so you don't have to pay London wages. Quality will come with more low end pitch investment and coaches stop charging people to go on the coaches courses. But pay the England manager a sensible wage not mega millions with huge bonuses for tournament wins.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
I think it's harsh to say that they don't care, I think we just didn't have a plan and had poor discipline as a result. All of our games we lacked direction and a plan B, you look at last nights game both sides could split the play, play with width but most importantly everyone knew their roles.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I think you go the other way and say they have too many plans and too many people creating them for daft footballers who can't implement them.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
I think that's Bowing down to big names rather than having a plan. Similar to Belgium but worse, they were playing around key players rather a team effort. Both Wales and Iceland apitomised team work and actually played some damn good football. They had a gameplan and were nimble enough to change it. England changed personnel but didn't change the shape, we were already out of the tournament at the Portugal friendly as all of his work and formations fell flat on its face and you could see that all over RHs face. We then went into the tournament with a new last minute formation which was unfit for purpose
Otis
Well-Known Member
They do care, Stu, but not enough. I would never say they don't care. Look how much it meant to Wales last night. How many times have we seen England play with that kind of fight in a tournament?
tisza
Well-Known Member
players aren't brave enough when things aren't going well. you have to question mental strength of a team that flew through qualis against sides of similar quality to Iceland, Slovakia and Russia but get to a finals and it goes out the window.
The Iceland game though was just wrong from start to finish. The basics of passing and controlling a ball went out the window.
And too often we just weren't getting players in the box.
A common theme through out the tournament was a lot of shots but very few on target.
The Iceland game though was just wrong from start to finish. The basics of passing and controlling a ball went out the window.
And too often we just weren't getting players in the box.
A common theme through out the tournament was a lot of shots but very few on target.
Otis
Well-Known Member
And that's why Kane was as puzzling as anyone. It looked like he had never ever seen a ball before let alone kicked one.
His shooting and crossing was appalling. I just didn't recognise the bloke who had looked so brilliant in the Premier.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Even his freekicks lacked any sort of conviction - half-hearted slaps some of them.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Kane has never been known for his set pieces, hodgson error
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Still whatever swipes are aimed at Hodgson if you compare our best teams - the 1990 team, the 1996 euro team and the 1998 team player for player against other teams in that era this team is hugely lacking.
It lacks experience, it lacks depth and it lacks quality.
It's a symptom of the premier league disease. This team perhaps underachieved only as it lost against Iceland. Other than that it looked par for the course.
The pool of players to pick from is limited beyond belief.
It actually shows the depths we are now out even in the managerial stakes that a clown like Pardew is considered as a manager. That's akin to graham Withey being considered as a player.
I'm afraid when very mediocre players are paid millions a year they have zero interest in England. I can imagine them yawning and laughing at the manager as he tried to inspire them.
It's also why I be beg understand the Rooney abuse. Despite the riches he's never shirked never failed to stand up and be counted and never can be accused of lack of effort or integraty
It lacks experience, it lacks depth and it lacks quality.
It's a symptom of the premier league disease. This team perhaps underachieved only as it lost against Iceland. Other than that it looked par for the course.
The pool of players to pick from is limited beyond belief.
It actually shows the depths we are now out even in the managerial stakes that a clown like Pardew is considered as a manager. That's akin to graham Withey being considered as a player.
I'm afraid when very mediocre players are paid millions a year they have zero interest in England. I can imagine them yawning and laughing at the manager as he tried to inspire them.
It's also why I be beg understand the Rooney abuse. Despite the riches he's never shirked never failed to stand up and be counted and never can be accused of lack of effort or integraty
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Agreed with you until the last paragraph.
He was one of the worst players on Monday and when our captain plays like that it's very uninspirational.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
On Monday Rooney must have put in his worst ever performance.
I rate the bloke and as I stated earlier, his passing stats are very high indeed ...... usually. On Monday they must have been abysmal. He was dreadful, the team was dreadful. Worst effort I can ever recall from an England side.
I rate the bloke and as I stated earlier, his passing stats are very high indeed ...... usually. On Monday they must have been abysmal. He was dreadful, the team was dreadful. Worst effort I can ever recall from an England side.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
If you look at England attacking, everyone except the player with the ball is standing still. If you look at Germany attacking, other players are running into open spaces. You rarely see that with England. I agree, Hodgson takes 90% of the blame. He picked the wrong squad, wrong teams, formations and tactics. The Iceland game was the worst performance by an England team I have ever seen and I have watched England teams since before the 1966 WC. I vote for a foreign manager. There is no English manager even remotely qualified. But I don't think England have any hope of success at a major tournament until the entire structure of the English game is changed. Now that we are out of the EU, I'd like to see at least 50% of every league squad have to be British born players.
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If you go down the English route choices are limited.
The absurd Pardew was in the dailies saying if they come and approach me I'm not interested. Well surely we are not that desperate.
If it's an English manager I would say Steve Bruce
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Agree on Pardew there is no manager I dislike more than him.
It will be Glen Hoddle if it has to be English the talent pool is tiny.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I don't get people calling for Allardyce, yeas we might win some games with simple kick and run football but it's going to be no good for the development of younger players and we will be in the same situation in a few years time. We're on the right track having St Georges park making the young teams play the same way. We are just missing a great manager who understands English football (doesn't necessarily have to be English) and can implement a coherent system.
The best thing we could do is restrict the number of players a team can have under contract at all age groups to ensure players get game time between 18 and 22 when it is vital for their development. Chelsea having something like 100 players under contract is mad, how many potential England players are there who will never develop because they are not playing mens football. It will never happen of course.
The best thing we could do is restrict the number of players a team can have under contract at all age groups to ensure players get game time between 18 and 22 when it is vital for their development. Chelsea having something like 100 players under contract is mad, how many potential England players are there who will never develop because they are not playing mens football. It will never happen of course.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
The best thing that could happen is for the FA and the Premier League clubs in particular to invest a much greater proportion of the incredible sums they receive into grassroots football.
But will they F**K!
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
They won't do it of their own accord, you have to provide an incentive to do it.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
I have not evaluated the potential candidates so I cannot say. We need someone with international experience.
Someone who speaks English, maybe a German, Dutch or Scandinavian.
Someone not afraid to pick the best players rather than the most popular.
Someone not afraid to drop a player who is over the hill even if he is the current captain (hint, hint).