The Way Forward (2 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

And how do you propose they become self sufficient, as all we see is players sold and no adequate replacements provided within the playing squad, this has been a recurring cycle during their tenure, when it is plainly obvious, 1.5-2m investment into the playing squad, will get you out this league, gaining 5m plus from gaining championship status.

Firstly the 17,000 "fans" who came for the Gillingham game could make the effort more to attend games..

We will only get out of this league once the turnover from revenue is substantial enough for us to spend that amount of money on players.

When you say £1.5-£2m on players, do you mean on wages, or transfer fees?

Just because we throw money at players does not mean we will get out of this league.


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[ccfcway]

Mock it as much as you like, but they're right the Club does need to be self sufficient, not every owner will have the money to throw at us and FFP rules have been introduced to stop the latter.

I am not saying not saying there is much wrong in the article, i am saying we have heard it all before !!

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

And how do you propose they become self sufficient, as all we see is players sold and no adequate replacements provided within the playing squad, this has been a recurring cycle during their tenure, when it is plainly obvious, 1.5-2m investment into the playing squad, will get you out this league, gaining 5m plus from gaining championship status.

And subsequent relegation after a year or two as the extra 5 million won't be enough to keep us in the championship year after year without an owner pumping in cash.

With our finances as they are, we're about where we should be, maybe a little under performing with respect to league position. We're on the same level as Doncaster, Barnsley, Peterborough now.

 

[italiahorse]

Isn't advertising done by the game or season? Would expect so in which case the lack of advertising isn't down to people thinking we're moving, more to do with a general distrust of SISU, it not being cost effective or not wanting to be associated with the CCFC 'brand'.

All we need to do is start winning and moving up the league and a lot of problems will go away ................................. oh yea and sack Fisher.

 

[chiefdave]

Would self sufficiency work even if we achieved it? It sounds great and we certainly should be able to get out of L1 and into the Championship but where from there. You're allowed to lose millions in that division, not to mention teams with parachute payments, how would we be competitive with them if we are on a self sufficiency model?

It's tough as logic says you don't propose to lose millions every year as that isn't sustainable but equally we can't operate in isolation to everyone else and if they're all prepared to lose millions and we aren't we will then have one of the lower player budgets and struggle to be competitive. Not sure there's an answer to that until the authorities sort things out.

 

[percy]

advertising !!! are they having a giraffe !!! hows about stocking the club shop up for starters so we can at least continue to support financially.

 

[stupot07]

Would self sufficiency work even if we achieved it? It sounds great and we certainly should be able to get out of L1 and into the Championship but where from there. You're allowed to lose millions in that division, not to mention teams with parachute payments, how would we be competitive with them if we are on a self sufficiency model?

It's tough as logic says you don't propose to lose millions every year as that isn't sustainable but equally we can't operate in isolation to everyone else and if they're all prepared to lose millions and we aren't we will then have one of the lower player budgets and struggle to be competitive. Not sure there's an answer to that until the authorities sort things out.

We couldn't compete in the championship under a no-loss model, that only works in leagues one and two.

The fact they want to run a self sufficient club, not reliant on owners pumping money in, suggests that Sisu will be here for the long haul.


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[Noggin]

Mock it as much as you like, but they're right the Club does need to be self sufficient, not every owner will have the money to throw at us and FFP rules have been introduced to stop the latter.


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The club will never be self sufficient under sisu, they have devastated the ticket revenue, the merchandising revenue, the sponsorship revenue and the corporate/hospitality revenue, they have alienated the fanbase, lost us our ability to own our own stadium for any reasonable sum of money and the club will continue to run up large debts in interest and management fees. Yes they have cut operating costs but those cuts have come at the expense of the club now having almost no assets, a playing squad worth peanuts and not good enough to get out of this league (upwards anyway, getting out downwards is a significant possibility) a club shop with nothing to sell, a ticketing system where you can't get through on the phone and the whole thing dies a complete death at any big game(not that there are many of those these days) we just simply aren't going to be self sufficient under sisu and every action they take makes it less and less likely.

 

[jas365]

That article was about as good as Fisher's brilliant line at the start of the season - "we'll stick to what we're good at, building good relations".

The start of the article talks about building trust and clear communication - are they having a fucking laugh?

Mind you, RFC will probably cream himself when he reads through that lot.

 

[RFC]

We couldn't compete in the championship under a no-loss model, that only works in leagues one and two.

The fact they want to run a self sufficient club, not reliant on owners pumping money in, suggests that Sisu will be here for the long haul.


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Well spotted PUSB!

 

[LB87ccfc]

That article was about as good as Fisher's brilliant line at the start of the season - "we'll stick to what we're good at, building good relations".

The start of the article talks about building trust and clear communication - are they having a fucking laugh?

Mind you, RFC will probably cream himself when he reads through that lot.

Well done .. it didn't take long for RFC aka Fisher to come on here.

 

[albatross]

Its an interesting read and not one I expected from SISU. I am reluctant to dismiss it out of hand as it is certainly strikes a different tone and hopefully they now realise that without the good will of the supporters and their attendance then they have nothing.


Interestingly the five Point plan does not specifically state that the immediate goal is to own their own stadium. I know they mention it later but in much softer terms, it is now a long term ambition..... meaning nothing will happen soon. They clearly state that they are back on a fair rent deal and do have access to additional match day revenues. I read that as we are staying put for the foreseeable future .

Looks like they are going to make a go of it with their new landlords ... there is no alternative for them

Actions will speak louder than words so lets see.

 

[LB87ccfc]

The club will never be self sufficient under sisu, they have devastated the ticket revenue, the merchandising revenue, the sponsorship revenue and the corporate/hospitality revenue, they have alienated the fanbase, lost us our ability to own our own stadium for any reasonable sum of money and the club will continue to run up large debts in interest and management fees. Yes they have cut operating costs but those cuts have come at the expense of the club now having almost no assets, a playing squad worth peanuts and not good enough to get out of this league (upwards anyway, getting out downwards is a significant possibility) a club shop with nothing to sell, a ticketing system where you can't get through on the phone and the whole thing dies a complete death at any big game(not that there are many of those these days) we just simply aren't going to be self sufficient under sisu and every action they take makes it less and less likely.

Post of the day.

Mind you try telling this to the new stadium lovers on here.

 

[albatross]

The only way I can see them being able to move this forward is to bring in another investor but that will have the effect of potentially diluting SISU's Shareholding. A new investor wiling to make a cash injection to the club will certainly help with the FFP regulations.

Turnover as defined by the Football League includes match-day income, commercial income (such as sponsorship) and television revenue, and donations/equity injections by owners, but not loans to the club.

so as long as it is an equity/ cash investment it is classed as turnover all SISU investment has been loans so that further compounds the situation as any new money from SISU would not be considered as turnover

 

[Moff]

Mind you try telling this to the new stadium lovers on here.

Seriously, who the f*ck are these new stadium lovers you bang on about?

Aprt from RFC I havent seen anyone buy it, no one believes it well ever happen, so why be so devisive about a group of people that dont even exist?

 

[skybluetony176]

We couldn't compete in the championship under a no-loss model, that only works in leagues one and two.

The fact they want to run a self sufficient club, not reliant on owners pumping money in, suggests that Sisu will be here for the long haul.


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So long as it's in the first or second division. I don't think they're fussed which one.

 

[LB87ccfc]

Seriously, who the f*ck are these new stadium lovers you bang on about?

Aprt from RFC I havent seen anyone buy it, no one believes it well ever happen, so why be so devisive about a group of people that dont even exist?

Try reading all the fucking posts on here and you will see. Sick of where could it be ? and people wanking over Garlicks tweet to keep people hanging in hope of nothing.

 

[Moff]

Try reading all the fucking posts on here and you will see. Sick of where could it be ? and people wanking over Garlicks tweet to keep people hanging in hope of nothing.

I do read the all the fucking posts on here, just without blinkers on.
No one believes the bullshit, it wont happen, and there isnt a little club that you think believes it will. I guess we agree that it wont happen.

 

[jas365]

Well done .. it didn't take long for RFC aka Fisher to come on here.

And there he was, right on cue, what are the chances of that happening?

 

[wingy]

A Mischievous one to the OP.

The Way Forward ..............4-4-2.

On a serious note doesn't this article contradict Waggot on a couple of levels .

IE transfer policy and concerning his recent programme notes of knowing when to turn on or switch Investment between Stadium and team affairs .

 

[skybluelee]

Firstly the 17,000 "fans" who came for the Gillingham game could make the effort more to attend games..

These fans are non-diehards who will not attend regularly until a successful side is put out on the park - chicken and egg really. Therein lies the problem.

 

[chiefdave]

The fact they want to run a self sufficient club, not reliant on owners pumping money in, suggests that Sisu will be here for the long haul.

If they can achieve break even they can stick around for years just in the hope that something miraculous happens and they get their money back somehow.

 

[georgehudson]

imho, 7 years down the line,
& they publish a promo article that has the same false dawn premise as numerous promo's before,
have they blindly ignored the facts that they have successively demoralised fans,
after year 1 of their tenure the fans were beginning to turn against them with a series of peculiar appointments,
nothing has changed,
other than,
it seems to have got progressively worse with as at 2015 less than 2% of CCFC fans now follow the sisu mantra,

is this typical of a sisu business model ?

 

[dongonzalos]

Credit where credit is due. Especially the bit about trying to open up revenue steams by working with wasps.
If they do all they say on this then fair play to them.

If they get a mutually acceptable long term deal reached with Wasps and ditch the new stadium idea they will get my full backing

 

[bigfatronssba]

I would be interested to know why a "stadium owned by a third party" will prevent the club from progressing?


How does the club (or more likely club owner) having its name on a title deed increase income?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/22/club-by-club-guide-championship-finances-2012-2013


Look at all these losses from 12/13 accounts, Barnsley, Blackpool, Palace (13.9 million income in player sales) and Watford only clubs to make a profit. Peterborough made a small loss. All other clubs made losses from the low million to 50 million.

Even the clubs who are portrayed as the model to follow like Derby and Brighton made big losses. Just by going by the finances from that year the and current performance, Watford appear to look the best ran club on paper.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Debt of all championship clubs

Summary of 12/13 from the championship

 

[dongonzalos]

Firstly the 17,000 "fans" who came for the Gillingham game could make the effort more to attend games..

We will only get out of this league once the turnover from revenue is substantial enough for us to spend that amount of money on players.

When you say £1.5-£2m on players, do you mean on wages, or transfer fees?

Just because we throw money at players does not mean we will get out of this league.


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You start treating your fans properly and you will find they will return. Fans can be surprisingly tolerant as long as they don't feel they are lied to or treated with contempt. If the club do as they say in this mission statement watch the fans slowly come back.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

You start treating your fans properly and you will find they will return. Fans can be surprisingly tolerant as long as they don't feel they are lied to or treated with contempt. If the club do as they say in this mission statement watch the fans slowly come back.

The fans relationship with the owners is irreparably damaged imo, the only thing that would change it would be massive success like getting to the premier league. Even if we got into the championship I struggle to see us averaging about 13-14k under SISU.

 

[torchomatic]

Which is why the Wasps' deal was so bad for the club.

If they can achieve break even they can stick around for years just in the hope that something miraculous happens and they get their money back somehow.

 

[Bill Glazier]

The odd thing is I think a lot of companies do actually believe this sort of 'mission statement' bollocks themselves. They mistake it for doing something. Invest in the team now - or go.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Firstly the 17,000 "fans" who came for the Gillingham game could make the effort more to attend games..

We will only get out of this league once the turnover from revenue is substantial enough for us to spend that amount of money on players.

When you say £1.5-£2m on players, do you mean on wages, or transfer fees?

Just because we throw money at players does not mean we will get out of this league.


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You are putting the cart before the horse, no one is obligated to attend, the owners have to provide a product that people want to see and will pay for, they are not doing that.

 

[LB87ccfc]

You are putting the cart before the horse, no one is obligated to attend, the owners have to provide a product that people want to see and will pay for, they are not doing that.

Correct, Football is an entertainment business, the fan base is still their .. just hiding away waiting for something to change at the top, and a better product to be provided making the working class man / families to attend again.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I cant help but be rather sceptical about this statement. Heard it all before and its just words where is the substance, the action that moves it forward. says all the right things doesnt it but actually answers very few questions

The five key points are

• Financially stable – with the over-riding aim to field a competitive team ----- I am all for that and frankly more than a little surprised it has taken them 7 years to realise this. How that happens by adding to debt I am not sure - debt has to serviced and increases risk. That said doing nothing is also high risk. Strangely success might also be a risk because unless the funding is available to finance the losses that appear to be inevitable from promotion (see tables above) then the risk of instability increases
• Aim to move to long term financial independence from the owner.-----so what they saying here that the current debt owed by Otium is capped and there will be no more to finance operations or are they saying they want the owner repaid in which case that puts stress on the financial model. Certainly a small ground will only be able to furnish small events and if the team stays in L1 then income expectations have to be lowered in terms of sponsorship etc to finance such independence
• To have a fully integrated football model with the Academy being a cornerstone of the club model---- This comes across as something ground breaking and new but surely one of the strengths of CCFC has been its academy. But to finance a category 1 set up will take millions per annum. Surely that places more strain on the financial model
• To be a community pillar – to assist Sky Blues in the Community in delivering improved health, education, crime and social awareness targets to the local area where our supporters are drawn from ---- again nothing new SBITC has been highly successful at doing this sort of stuff but has never really got the media coverage. As a registered Charity much of its work is funded by donation, sponsorship and grant - why would the club increase its own costs setting up this sort of thing in addition to SBITC? money better spent on team? Going to have competition from Wasps too
• To develop long-term relationships with businesses in the community along with membership of the Chamber of Commerce and Coventry & Warwickshire Champions----- About damn time really isnt it. What have their commercial department been doing for 7 years. I have business clients that wouldnt go near the club again after how they have been treated. After 7 years they realise that such links are important right at the time a new player is in town offering a premiership product. The competition just got a whole lot sharper and there is a choice


that can only be achieved by:-

• Building trust with the supporters
• Success on the field
• Clear communication
• Having a progressive fully-integrated first team-Academy model

Only? really? I would suggest these are elements in an overall flexible business plan. Interesting they list trust with the supporters first. Isnt the reality that most fans will put up with a whole load of crap if their team is consistently successful. It is one thing having a good academy but if you then mix it into a poor first team squad do you get the end product expected? So how do they rebuild the trust? How many times are we told about communication being important only to realise the club never follows through on it - communication is not just about PR (failed PR at that)

So the club since 2005 only ever had match ticket income at the Ricoh? - it didnt get the car park money guaranteed by the 900 spaces in the lease?, it never sold any hospitality packages? it never got the income from pitchside advertising? So rent for the year appears to be under 160k (less than 7k per game)then. Income streams are available I would think but not for free. Here is an interesting concept CCFC put events on at the Ricoh by booking through ACL/Wasps both win then dont they?

The new stadium isnt mentioned much but it seems has been pushed off a few years by the tone of this missive - perhaps i am misunderstanding but thats the impression i get

Could someone please define what the pressley ethos is because from this seasons performance it is not very apparent and seems to lack cohesion. It is all very well saying there are too many loan players but whose fault is that - surely thats down to the manager and owners of CCFC and the decisions they take? Surely all clubs check players out before they sign them we are not a special case in that respect - other than to say over the past few seasons we havent been that good at it.

Its not so long ago we owned one of the best performance analysis companies - if we didnt take advantage of that then why not?

Category 2 academy well good but as it stands unless they had done a deal at the Alan Higgs Centre then they very nearly lost it because there was no indoor pitch anywhere else in the area (FL pre requisite for Cat 1). Then where would their mission statement and "business plan" be. At least they are honest and say they will have to sell some of the young stars to survive

The 60p in the pound - how many times are they going to mislead on this. It is a budget limit it is not an absolute...... a lot of the players are not actually covered by it and if the club has to be independent of the owner/self sustaining then the amount spent is dependent on a lot of other factors like interest charges

What are these active ambassadors? do people like the Trust realise they are working alongside them? How do they raise funds? how will we know what they raise and how much goes to fund the team?

Communication is still a problem. On the face of it the "way forward" is a good way of communicating and if you are not prepared to ask questions or try to join up the dots it may be so. However for me it hasnt told me much and there is still no or little substance.

As for the SCG and board representation by people who have not been elected by the fans please give it a rest, it is not a body i feel that represents many of the dwindling number of fans.

The overall impression is of very little substance with lots of padding aimed at making CCFc seem different when in actual fact it is what you expect at all clubs but with the odd tweek here and there. Also I get a feeling that we are staying L1 for some time from what is said

A lot of froth

 

[Moff]

Correct, Football is an entertainment business, the fan base is still their .. just hiding away waiting for something to change at the top, and a better product to be provided making the working class man / families to attend again.

Couldnt agree more, and the twat Fisher just cant seem to see it.

(Apologies for calling you a bellend earlier...was having a bad day )