Time's Up (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've probably got bigger personal issues and I'm depressed watching this shite

Likewise tbh

 

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[TomRad85]

Likewise tbh

At least venting on here is a type of therapy hey? I'd rather have the watching good football type of therapy but you make the best of what's available.

 

[Rodders1]

IMO for what it's worth, I think we stick and fully back Robbins and see what happens in the January transfer window.

The squad is top heavy. Doug needs to invest again. We have to write this season off, we’ll stay up. Its not exciting but once a balanced squad is in place lets see what happens.

Its not sentiment either - but short termism to appease some fans isn't the answer.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You think not replacing the assistant or the experience in the squad isn't down to King?
That part is definitely down to him.
And I can't find one post saying Robins is blameless. People just keep making it up in their heads.

But he's had 3 tools which hes used to be succesful, an assistant, experienced players and loans all taken away from him.

Anyone who thinks that hasn't had an affect is deluded.
He's still made some poor selections and in game decisions though, no doubt about it.

a great post.

The facts here are that we are struggling badly, and Robins has been one of our best ever managers.

I don’t like all the revisionism, people trying to imply “actually all the things he achieved weren’t down to him”, denying that he’s got form for turning around bad situations before & just ranting and raving, then accusing anyone looking for a bit of reasoning of saying he’s “blameless”.

The issues are that Viveash has gone, the new coaching system clearly isn’t delivering, there’s zero leadership on the pitch, Robins allegedly has had personal issues, the strikers can’t finish. The xg table alone demonstrates that pretty clearly. A perfect storm landing pretty much all at once.

They for me are the issues, so all this angry venting trying to rewrite history and prove (for what reason I don’t know) that Robins was actually crap all along and everything he achieved was some kind of fluke- it’s a bit bewildering.

He has to start changing this fast or time will be up, I haven’t seen one single person argue against that- but some of the nonsense is way, way over the top.

 

[Chris1987]

The other aspect to this is that if the poor form continues the club are holding player assets which are diminishing in value thus making it harder for the inevitable rebuild which will be needed when some of them leave . Much more difficult to attract a decent calibre of player when on pitch performances have been in decline.
As I've stated previously I believe that the major factor contributing to this slump is the coaching set up. Who the fuck defends set pieces with the whole team behind the ball with none of them marking anyone in particular? Tactics during games are not obvious but our reactions to opposing teams switching tactics appear to be non existent. Sitting down staring at iPads for the match duration is bollocks . Robins previously had the more direct assistance of Adi which at least provided alternative strategies throughout matches.
MR must carry a good degree of responsibility for the current situation but the back up looks totally abject to me.
I think however that giving him until Christmas as some have suggested potentially is too late for someone to fix the issues if they still persist. Another 6 games will surely indicate if the problems have been addressed.

 

[Matt smith]

The other aspect to this is that if the poor form continues the club are holding player assets which are diminishing in value thus making it harder for the inevitable rebuild which will be needed when some of them leave . Much more difficult to attract a decent calibre of player when on pitch performances have been in decline.
As I've stated previously I believe that the major factor contributing to this slump is the coaching set up. Who the fuck defends set pieces with the whole team behind the ball with none of them marking anyone in particular? Tactics during games are not obvious but our reactions to opposing teams switching tactics appear to be non existent. Sitting down staring at iPads for the match duration is bollocks . Robins previously had the more direct assistance of Adi which at least provided alternative strategies throughout matches.
MR must carry a good degree of responsibility for the current situation but the back up looks totally abject to me.
I think however that giving him until Christmas as some have suggested potentially is too late for someone to fix the issues if they still persist. Another 6 games will surely indicate if the problems have been addressed.

The November international break would be a good barometer, 3rd of the way through the season

 

[adamcov]

Very well reasoned argument. I’d only add that without midfield reinforcements we’re going nowhere regardless of anything else in the side. Zero ability to unlock a defence without ohare palmer or hamer

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

the cold hard facts are - this squad and current coaching staff isn’t built for how Robins wants to manage the club.

now there are two options. Robins adapts to the squad he has and uses the tools at his disposal. He’s previously lamented the stuff he doesn’t have but others do and that we can’t compete because of this. The Director of football and the head of recruitment is his mate.

the second option is that he can’t adapt. We let him go and hire a manger/Head coach that the squad and staff are in line with. It’s nonsense that there isn’t a manager out there that can’t get this team going.

Either way we need to make a decision shortly so we can get back on track

 

[Ring Of Steel]

the cold hard facts are - this squad and current coaching staff isn’t built for how Robins wants to manage the club.

now there are two options. Robins adapts to the squad he has and uses the tools at his disposal. He’s previously lamented the stuff he doesn’t have but others do and that we can’t compete because of this. The Director of football and the head of recruitment is his mate.

the second option is that he can’t adapt. We let him go and hire a manger/Head coach that the squad and staff are in line with. It’s nonsense that there isn’t a manager out there that can’t get this team going.

Either way we need to make a decision shortly so we can get back on track

I am not disputing what you say, but the first paragraph- how do you know?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I am not disputing what you say, but the first paragraph- how do you know?

See we can take it as conflicting reports. There’s a lot of talk on here that King has put this in place and that Robins has had this set up foisted upon him, he likes the operation he had before is the general take on here. (See the previous threads blaming the performance director and King

if however he’s had a say in it, then it’s got to be accepted he’s ballsed it up. Either way it’s not a good luck for Robins.

I don’t know for sure, but as mentioned before the only thing that’s changed from last season is the band of Vivaesh, Lawrence and Robins.

I’m still of the opinion that it’s all gearing to the foreign head coach model. Or young first team coach from a top club ala Kieran McKenna

in terms of the squad - Robins has always opted for a vocal experienced captain and player leadership team, that self policed themselves - it’s bizarre that this hasn’t been replaced

 

[Ring Of Steel]

See we can take it as conflicting reports. There’s a lot of talk on here that King has put this in place and that Robins has had this set up foisted upon him, he likes the operation he had before is the general take on here. (See the previous threads blaming the performance director and King

if however he’s had a say in it, then it’s got to be accepted he’s ballsed it up. Either way it’s not a good luck for Robins.

I don’t know for sure, but as mentioned before the only thing that’s changed from last season is the band of Vivaesh, Lawrence and Robins.

I’m still of the opinion that it’s all gearing to the foreign head coach model. Or young first team coach from a top club ala Kieran McKenna

I think there’s a bit more to it than just Viveash on its own- like I say, last season Wright & Simms were scoring, whereas this season the xg table clearly shows that our inability to finish is costing us very dearly. It’s not so much of a leap to suggest that if we were scoring then this debate would not be happening- an underwhelming start but not a total disaster. There’s also the question of these personal issues which I don’t want to start digging into as it’s just speculation tbh.

so I’m not arguing with you, but again I don’t think it’s as simple as just one thing, a few things have happened all at once. None are unfixable, and I feel Robins has more than earned the chance to fix them- hence my position.

But.. if you’re right and King wants that particular model maybe it’s all irrelevant and he won’t get the time, who knows. I hope not.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I think there’s a bit more to it than just Viveash on its own- like I say, last season Wright & Simms were scoring, whereas this season the xg table clearly shows that our inability to finish is costing us very dearly. It’s not so much of a leap to suggest that if we were scoring then this debate would not be happening- an underwhelming start but not a total disaster. There’s also the question of these personal issues which I don’t want to start digging into as it’s just speculation tbh.

so I’m not arguing with you, but again I don’t think it’s as simple as just one thing, a few things have happened all at once. None are unfixable, and I feel Robins has more than earned the chance to fix them- hence my position.

But.. if you’re right and King wants that particular model maybe it’s all irrelevant and he won’t get the time, who knows. I hope not.

That last paragraph is where I’m at - I’m not necessarily “Robins out” I’ve made the assumption rightly or wrongly that we’re following a new model, and I’m struggling to see where Robins fits in.

As you’ve said and underwhelming start isn’t a disaster - but what concerns me we look devoid of fight, when we’re on top in games we look like we could win them. But what tends to happen is if they don’t get ahead, the heads drop and the inevitable mistake happens.

when we’re losing we rarely look like we can get back into games - that’s why it appears different to the last 2 seasons. We looked like we could pop up at anytime and grab an equaliser and winner

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That last paragraph is where I’m at - I’m not necessarily “Robins out” I’ve made the assumption rightly or wrongly that we’re following a new model, and I’m struggling to see where Robins fits in.

As you’ve said and underwhelming start isn’t a disaster - but what concerns me we look devoid of fight, when we’re on top in games we look like we could win them. But what tends to happen is if they don’t get ahead, the heads drop and the inevitable mistake happens.

when we’re losing we rarely look like we can get back into games - that’s why it appears different to the last 2 seasons. We looked like we could pop up at anytime and grab an equaliser and winner

I think maybe the lack of getting back into games- along with the lack of scoring late like we used to do regularly- can be partly attributed to the loss of the experienced heads.

People like McFazdean, Godden etc, they never ever let their heads drop, and rallied everyone them, whereas now you can almost sense them drop and there’s nobody there to lead them & drive them to keep going.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I think maybe the lack of getting back into games- along with the lack of scoring late like we used to do regularly- can be partly attributed to the loss of the experienced heads.

People like McFazdean, Godden etc, they never ever let their heads drop, and rallied everyone them, whereas now you can almost sense them drop and there’s nobody there to lead them & drive them to keep going.

Godden was not as good as some people suggest. He was not an impact player or for that matter, a leader.

 

[Matt smith]

See we can take it as conflicting reports. There’s a lot of talk on here that King has put this in place and that Robins has had this set up foisted upon him, he likes the operation he had before is the general take on here. (See the previous threads blaming the performance director and King

if however he’s had a say in it, then it’s got to be accepted he’s ballsed it up. Either way it’s not a good luck for Robins.

I don’t know for sure, but as mentioned before the only thing that’s changed from last season is the band of Vivaesh, Lawrence and Robins.

I’m still of the opinion that it’s all gearing to the foreign head coach model. Or young first team coach from a top club ala Kieran McKenna

in terms of the squad - Robins has always opted for a vocal experienced captain and player leadership team, that self policed themselves - it’s bizarre that this hasn’t been replaced

The foreign head coach model is how I would sum it up.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Godden was not as good as some people suggest. He was not an impact player or for that matter, a leader.

I’m not saying he was a great player.

I’m saying that he never let his head drop, and give him a chance in the 93rd minute & he was likely to score, as he did a few times. I don’t see that ability to keep focussed and not lose confidence in our current strikers.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I think there’s a bit more to it than just Viveash on its own- like I say, last season Wright & Simms were scoring, whereas this season the xg table clearly shows that our inability to finish is costing us very dearly. It’s not so much of a leap to suggest that if we were scoring then this debate would not be happening- an underwhelming start but not a total disaster. There’s also the question of these personal issues which I don’t want to start digging into as it’s just speculation tbh.

so I’m not arguing with you, but again I don’t think it’s as simple as just one thing, a few things have happened all at once. None are unfixable, and I feel Robins has more than earned the chance to fix them- hence my position.

But.. if you’re right and King wants that particular model maybe it’s all irrelevant and he won’t get the time, who knows. I hope not.

This was never sold as an immediate promotion push was it. We’re part way through a process. There is a problem though, the players need to be putting in some special performances if we are to progress/ they get their dream move/ we cash in on them. At the moment, it’s looking bad on all counts.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

This was never sold as an immediate promotion push was it. We’re part way through a process. There is a problem though, the players need to be putting in some special performances if we are to progress/ they get their dream move/ we cash in on them. At the moment, it’s looking bad on all counts.

I can’t argue with a single word of that.

I still feel Robins is the man to turn it around, but it’s pretty obvious to see why people are starting to question that.

 

[MalcSB]

This was never sold as an immediate promotion push was it. We’re part way through a process. There is a problem though, the players need to be putting in some special performances if we are to progress/ they get their dream move/ we cash in on them. At the moment, it’s looking bad on all counts.

That’s quite wrong, We were sold playoffs 3 years out of 5. Didn't happen last year, exceedingly unlikely to happen this year so we the next 3 seasons are going to be brilliant. We were also told that we would be going for it this season.

The pessimist in me will of course think that which playoffs weren’t specified, we have all assumed it was the Championship playoffs

 

[MalcSB]

Can’t argue with a single word of that.

I still feel Robins is the man to turn it around, but it’s pretty obvious to see why people are starting to question

I can - and have.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That’s quite wrong, We were sold playoffs 3 years out of 5. Didn't happen last year, exceedingly unlikely to happen this year so we the next 3 seasons are going to be brilliant. We were also told that we would be going for it this season.

The pessimist in me will of course think that which playoffs weren’t specified, we have all assumed it was the Championship playoffs

it’s splitting hairs, but nobody ever promised or sold “promotion”. That was us getting our hopes up.

I don’t think anyone is saying we’re doing well, but he’s not wrong in what he says.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I can - and have.

that’s your opinion and I respect it, I will edit and add an “I” to denote I was speaking for me, not everyone.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

This is beyond weird “got to stop doing it” reads like he’s mocking someone.

 

[shmmeee]

it’s my view that we give him until Christmas, yes.

This is my view really but is it fair? We all accept the problem is lack of leadership. We probably need an experienced CM to come in for Eccles and an experienced CB to come in for Thomas. That can’t happen until Jan (unless we get Matty James), so if you’re sticking with him should you give him the window to sort the mistakes of the summer?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

This is beyond weird “got to stop doing it” reads like he’s mocking someone.

View attachment 38963

I am at a bit of a loss to understand the ‘data protection’ bit.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

This is my view really but is it fair? We all accept the problem is lack of leadership. We probably need an experienced CM to come in for Eccles and an experienced CB to come in for Thomas. That can’t happen until Jan (unless we get Matty James), so if you’re sticking with him should you give him the window to sort the mistakes of the summer?

My heart says yes but my head… it’s tough if there’s no improvement it’s got to be no. If we’re still on this run by the next window then we really are in trouble, no arguments.

Ideally we’d get that Matty James-type player now, we are so blatantly in need of some experience. Lot of pressure on whoever that person was coming in though.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

This is beyond weird “got to stop doing it” reads like he’s mocking someone.

View attachment 38963

More just like he’s adapting to it imo. Makes sense and to be honest not sure why the manager should be sharing what Injuries players have. Timelines absolutely tho.

 

[Grendel]

This is beyond weird “got to stop doing it” reads like he’s mocking someone.

View attachment 38963

It is odd. Technically a player can I suppose refuse the club to make public any info on medical data but I’ve never heard it before.

 

[shmmeee]

My heart says yes but my head… it’s tough if there’s no improvement it’s got to be no. If we’re still on this run by the next window then we really are in trouble, no arguments.

Ideally we’d get that Matty James-type player now, we are so blatantly in need of some experience. Lot of pressure on whoever that person was coming in though.

In an ideal world we’d get an assistant and Marty James in now, and then we could at least test the experience theory. Basically back him or sack him I think is what I’m saying. If you don’t want to get an assistant or experience in in case it doesn’t work you’ve already lost faith in your manager IMO.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

In an ideal world we’d get an assistant and Marty James in now, and then we could at least test the experience theory. Basically back him or sack him I think is what I’m saying. If you don’t want to get an assistant or experience in in case it doesn’t work you’ve already lost faith in your manager IMO.

I would agree 100%.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

More just like he’s adapting to it imo. Makes sense and to be honest not sure why the manager should be sharing what Injuries players have. Timelines absolutely tho.

It doesn’t make sense, it’s not what any other club (to my knowledge) does.

 

[Flying Fokker]

That’s quite wrong, We were sold playoffs 3 years out of 5. Didn't happen last year, exceedingly unlikely to happen this year so we the next 3 seasons are going to be brilliant. We were also told that we would be going for it this season.

The pessimist in me will of course think that which playoffs weren’t specified, we have all assumed it was the Championship playoffs

So when did the 5 year Premier Card come in to play? 2 or 3 seasons left. Robins et al made it clear it was not an immediate fix. I’m just as concerned as many. Perhaps not as concerned as some?

 

[nicksar]

That’s quite wrong, We were sold playoffs 3 years out of 5. Didn't happen last year, exceedingly unlikely to happen this year so we the next 3 seasons are going to be brilliant. We were also told that we would be going for it this season.

The pessimist in me will of course think that which playoffs weren’t specified, we have all assumed it was the Championship playoffs

Let's not forget that alongside the aim of being in the play offs 3 years out of five the owner also said we would never be in a relegation struggle under his ownership... that's why Mark Robins will be in great danger of losing his job right now tbh.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

In an ideal world we’d get an assistant and Marty James in now, and then we could at least test the experience theory. Basically back him or sack him I think is what I’m saying. If you don’t want to get an assistant or experience in in case it doesn’t work you’ve already lost faith in your manager IMO.

Completely agree with this. If USAs source was correct on the source, seems Doug might have already started doubting Robins.

Your spot on though, if we are sticking with Robins, Back him as your manager and give him the experienced player and assistant. Throw the dice and see what happens, I have my reservations but I can admit Robins deserves at least that.

 

[Winny the Bish]

It is odd. Technically a player can I suppose refuse the club to make public any info on medical data but I’ve never heard it before.

The only way it makes sense is Wilson wants to leave and he doesn't want details of an injury being made public.