Trust open meeting - 14th March, 7:30, Ricoh (6 Viewers)

[ccfcway]

I assume you ask this purely for the sake of consistency i.e. keeping asking the same question, see how the answer changes to see what you can flush out. I say this because it seems clear to me that until the legals are totally played out, there will be no further action on the new stadium idea. In fact several people pointed out in Boddy's comments when we announced the 12 month Ricoh extension that he sounded like he was implying (without saying so in as many words) that a long term Ricoh lease was the preferred option. Rightly so IMO, building the Ricoh nearly killed this club so building another new ground hardly seems like a recipe for a revival in our fortunes. Plus we don't have the cash - Joy won't put more money in, nobody would lend SISU money to build a new stadium, Cov council jahahaha can't even believe I was going to explain that....SISU are going to try to use the legals to damage Wasps financially to the point where they have enough leverage to get the Ricoh (or a slice of it) off them. That's their Plan A; until they have run out of road on that option, they won't burn any time or money on pipe dreams like building a new ground. I for one am pleased about that, I love the Ricoh and would hate to see us leave (again).

nope, was asking it for the sake of our club.

If the choice is now sticking with the Ricoh year on year, it would be nice to know, so we can put the new stadium idea to bed and work out how we maximise revenues playing at the ricoh

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. We could build a better relationship with london wasps and maximise revenue stream in the medium term while planning for a new stadium in the longer term. I don't believe for one minute that will happen under sisu but speaking hypothetically.

Boddy also said he wasn't involved in the mediation.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK, I'll bite...

Nobody believes SISU will do it.

However, in whatever SISU say, they hook onto kernels of truth to attempt to manipulate a perception. The frustrating thing with this one is because SISU have said about a new ground, the very concept is dismissed out of hand.

It shouldn't be.

Under normal owners I wouldn’t dismiss it especially under the circumstances we’re now in with regards the prospect of Ricoh ownership. Indeed if I was a gazillionair and managed to leaver CCFC away from SISU building our own stadium would be very near the top of my priority list to stabilise the club and secure the clubs future. But the fact is I’m not a gazillionair so therefore just like SISU don’t have the resources to fund the build. I don’t dismiss it because it’s SISU. I dismiss it because history has shown us that SISU can’t raise the capital to make a serious, credible bid for ACL at the fraction of the cost of purchasing some land and funding a stadium build so never in a million years are they going to deliver a new stadium or even be serious about it.

I agree that the concept shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand and would even agree it should be the way forward under current circumstances however the current owners have neither the appetite or ability to deliver it as they’ve continually proved since the first day TF said it was plan A.

 

[ccfcway]

Boddy also said he wasn't involved in the mediation.

has that finished now ?

what was the outcome ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Under normal owners I wouldn’t dismiss it especially under the circumstances we’re now in with regards the prospect of Ricoh ownership.

See, you get a like for at least reading my post!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

has that finished now ?

what was the outcome ?

wasn't as in isn't

 

[oucho]

the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. We could build a better relationship with london wasps and maximise revenue stream in the medium term while planning for a new stadium in the longer term. I don't believe for one minute that will happen under sisu but speaking hypothetically.

I was makign the point that he was asked about priorities and nowhere was the new stadium idea even mentioned. Although you are technically correct, taken together it points towards staying at the Ricoh are far as I can see it.

It's pointless discussing it with you as you have such a myopic vision you rant off about something ignoring completely whatever anybody says, which makes this post total gibberish!

Actually I have raised some valid and legitimate points in trying to debate. You just posted "It shouldn't be" 3 times; that's an assertion, unlike anything I wrote. I'm not myopic, I have thought about the case of a new stadium very carefully and have concluded that compared with staying at the Ricoh it's an untenable idea. I'll give SISU credit on that one, they're quietly jettisoned the idea whilst tryign to save as much face as they can, because they know it doesn't make sense. That's for the best to be fair to them.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Actually I have raised some valid and legitimate points in trying to debate

It comes to something when I have to cite Tony as an example of how to read and not just repeat!

 

[oucho]

nope, was asking it for the sake of our club.

If the choice is now sticking with the Ricoh year on year, it would be nice to know, so we can put the new stadium idea to bed and work out how we maximise revenues playing at the ricoh

Exactly - personally I hope we get to stay at the Ricoh long term e.g. 25 year lease.

 

[wingy]

wasn't as in isn't

Subtle !

 

[oucho]

It comes to something when I have to cite Tony as an example of how to read and not just repeat!

Says the bloke who seemingly just repeated "it shouldn't be" three times without adding anything else.

 

[wingy]

has that finished now ?

what was the outcome ?

End of the month I think .

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Says the bloke who seemingly just repeated "it shouldn't be" three times without adding anything else.

Because there's absolutely n point in saying anything else when you're tunnel vision and refuse to even read what's in front of you.

Thankfully some are more open minded.

 

[skybluetony176]

It comes to something when I have to cite Tony as an example of how to read and not just repeat!

Cheeky fucker

 

[CJ_covblaze]

.

Who said they got them wrong? Where did they predict higher attendances than what has transpired? TBH I'd have though our season average is in line with what I expected at the start of the season.



I assume you ask this purely for the sake of consistency i.e. keeping asking the same question, see how the answer changes to see what you can flush out. I say this because it seems clear to me that until the legals are totally played out, there will be no further action on the new stadium idea. In fact several people pointed out in Boddy's comments when we announced the 12 month Ricoh extension that he sounded like he was implying (without saying so in as many words) that a long term Ricoh lease was the preferred option. Rightly so IMO, building the Ricoh nearly killed this club so building another new ground hardly seems like a recipe for a revival in our fortunes. Plus we don't have the cash - Joy won't put more money in, nobody would lend SISU money to build a new stadium, Cov council jahahaha can't even believe I was going to explain that....SISU are going to try to use the legals to damage Wasps financially to the point where they have enough leverage to get the Ricoh (or a slice of it) off them. That's their Plan A; until they have run out of road on that option, they won't burn any time or money on pipe dreams like building a new ground. I for one am pleased about that, I love the Ricoh and would hate to see us leave (again).

Boddy said himself at the start of the season they were expecting an average attendance of 9000.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

The main thing I took from the meeting last night was that Boddy, if he was being honest, has nothing to do with anything outside of the remit of CCFC, doesn’t seem to have a foot in the Sisu camp in the way that Fisher does. That said he is still a Sisu appointee and tows the party line in a way that Chris Anderson perhaps didn’t. It is clear that Sisu are focussed on the court cases and that no decisions about the club’s future will happen until they are concluded. It also is clear that the plight of the club being made homeless if Wasps stick to their guns will not lead to the action being dropped. When asked last night about what will happen this time next year if the court case is still going he really didn’t have an answer. He still felt that, despite Sharpe's statement that he won’t deal with Sisu, the BPA could still be an option. Big if I know but if we got promoted this season and if we challenged next season and if crowds were 12k plus, how would the BPA cope with the amount of people who would want to watch CCFC make another challenge in League one or even (dreaming I know) in the Championship.? Got to hope the case is thrown out and finished this year.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

interesting tweet regarding the academy. Looks like its long(er) term future could be sorted soon.

Hopefully so. Rich Stevens also said similar things at our last meeting. Things are looking up there.

 

[oucho]

Because there's absolutely n point in saying anything else when you're tunnel vision and refuse to even read what's in front of you.

Thankfully some are more open minded.

How's that then? I have put out multiple discussion points but you refuse to debate and just call me names. IMO it is very myopic tunnel vision to argue that we ought to build a new stadium.

 

[ccfcway]

The main thing I took from the meeting last night was that Boddy, if he was being honest, has nothing to do with anything outside of the remit of CCFC, doesn’t seem to have a foot in the Sisu camp in the way that Fisher does. That said he is still a Sisu appointee and tows the party line in a way that Chris Anderson perhaps didn’t. It is clear that Sisu are focussed on the court cases and that no decisions about the club’s future will happen until they are concluded. It also is clear that the plight of the club being made homeless if Wasps stick to their guns will not lead to the action being dropped. When asked last night about what will happen this time next year if the court case is still going he really didn’t have an answer. He still felt that, despite Sharpe's statement that he won’t deal with Sisu, the BPA could still be an option. Big if I know but if we got promoted this season and if we challenged next season and if crowds were 12k plus, how would the BPA cope with the amount of people who would want to watch CCFC make another challenge in League one or even (dreaming I know) in the Championship.? Got to hope the case is thrown out and finished this year.

And round we go again.

 

[oucho]

The main thing I took from the meeting last night was that Boddy, if he was being honest, has nothing to do with anything outside of the remit of CCFC, doesn’t seem to have a foot in the Sisu camp in the way that Fisher does. That said he is still a Sisu appointee and tows the party line in a way that Chris Anderson perhaps didn’t. It is clear that Sisu are focussed on the court cases and that no decisions about the club’s future will happen until they are concluded. It also is clear that the plight of the club being made homeless if Wasps stick to their guns will not lead to the action being dropped. When asked last night about what will happen this time next year if the court case is still going he really didn’t have an answer. He still felt that, despite Sharpe's statement that he won’t deal with Sisu, the BPA could still be an option. Big if I know but if we got promoted this season and if we challenged next season and if crowds were 12k plus, how would the BPA cope with the amount of people who would want to watch CCFC make another challenge in League one or even (dreaming I know) in the Championship.? Got to hope the case is thrown out and finished this year.

Yes let's hope so - hopefully Cov Rugby stick to their guns and make clear there's no way CCFC will move to the Butts.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Yes let's hope so - hopefully Cov Rugby stick to their guns and make clear there's no way CCFC will move to the Butts.

And make CCFC homeless? Good plan.

 

[Nick]

And make CCFC homeless? Good plan.

He will be getting the bubbly out again if that happens. Weird.

 

[Captain Dart]

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From all that, it seems that the focus is on rebuilding the relationship with Wasps, growing our use of the Ricoh and aiming for a longer term stay. Can't read any of CJ's tweets in any other way.

Boddy didn't really say anything. The strategic decisions are not in his hands, he isn't involved in negotiations to extend the ground stay. I do not think you can draw a lot from what he said.

 

[oucho]

And make CCFC homeless? Good plan.

The Ricoh Arena *cough cough*

He will be getting the bubbly out again if that happens. Weird.

i did punch the air when I saw Cov Rugby re-state their "no groundshare" stance...why, because I desperately want us to stay at the Ricoh. What's weird about that?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The Ricoh Arena *cough cough*



i did punch the air when I saw Cov Rugby re-state their "no groundshare" stance...why, because I desperately want us to stay at the Ricoh. What's weird about that?

But why? Wasps have already said they’re effectively kicking us out next year.

Whilst I’d be happy if CCFC bought into the Ricoh 50/50, long term they can’t rent. If they can’t get 50/50, the building a new stadium is the only way to go

 

[clint van damme]

But why? Wasps have already said they’re effectively kicking us out next year.

Whilst I’d be happy if CCFC bought into the Ricoh 50/50, long term they can’t rent. If they can’t get 50/50, the building a new stadium is the only way to go

did they say they they're kicking us out or did they say that anything other than another year long extension isn't possible?
There seems to be a bit of confusion over what they actually said,

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

did they say they they're kicking us out or did they say that anything other than another year long extension isn't possible?
There seems to be a bit of confusion over what they actually said,

Yeah I’ll give you that, depends how you read it. The way I read it was that they were effectively doing us a favour and if the legals continue it won’t be happening next year.

Be happier if I’m wrong though

 

[oucho]

But why? Wasps have already said they’re effectively kicking us out next year.

Whilst I’d be happy if CCFC bought into the Ricoh 50/50, long term they can’t rent. If they can’t get 50/50, the building a new stadium is the only way to go

No they have not said that. If that was the case, they wouldn't have renewed us for another year. If anything I have only got the impression Wasps would like us to stay, purely for the revenue we berign in. The only reason they'd kick us out is if the court/legals situation deteriorates and they need to apply pressure.

Given their financial situation, it's likely that sooner or later they'll be receptive to a low-ish offer for us o take a stake in the Ricoh - certainly a lot lower than the cost of building a whole new stadium, which could come in at £40m. We could get 50% of the Ricoh for 5% of that price, in the right negotiating climate. That's what SISU are banking on.

Besides, you're thinking of a scenario where we own oru own ground and it's all done - it's like saying "we'd be better off if we were in the Premier League", well yes, but first you have to answer the questions around how we get into the new stadium scenario, viz
1 - who's going to pay for it?
2 - what'll it cost?
3 - impact on squad/team budget if we take money out to build
4 - etc

 

[Captain Dart]

No they have not said that. If that was the case, they wouldn't have renewed us for another year. If anything I have only got the impression Wasps would like us to stay, purely for the revenue we berign in. The only reason they'd kick us out is if the court/legals situation deteriorates and they need to apply pressure.

Given their financial situation, it's likely that sooner or later they'll be receptive to a low-ish offer for us o take a stake in the Ricoh - certainly a lot lower than the cost of building a whole new stadium, which could come in at £40m. We could get 50% of the Ricoh for 5% of that price, in the right negotiating climate. That's what SISU are banking on.

Besides, you're thinking of a scenario where we own oru own ground and it's all done - it's like saying "we'd be better off if we were in the Premier League", well yes, but first you have to answer the questions around how we get into the new stadium scenario, viz
1 - who's going to pay for it?
2 - what'll it cost?
3 - impact on squad/team budget if we take money out to build
4 - etc

Utter nonsense, you really do not comprehend the mind set of these people.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

But why? Wasps have already said they’re effectively kicking us out next year.

Stopping the legals will eliminate that problem.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Apparently the club needed to be provided bridging finance at the turn of the year. Given as said above Boddy provided an attendance budget of 9000 that says to me that the finances are very tight and there was a shortfall. Add to that the fact Otium required additional funding in 2017 of 500k and 530k in 2016 then the club is not living within its own means. Further given the increased levels of liabilities and the uncertainty of income how TF classes the finances as stable is beyond me

 

[chiefdave]

did they say they they're kicking us out or did they say that anything other than another year long extension isn't possible?
There seems to be a bit of confusion over what they actually said,

"It is widely known that there are obstacles – in the form of the current legal proceedings – which stand in the way of a longer-term agreement.

“We believe it is important for all parties concerned that we clarify at this stage that, unless those obstacles have been overcome by the time those discussions for the 2019/20 season would normally commence, then, regrettably, we will not be in a position to enter such discussions.”

 

[chiefdave]

Apparently the club needed to be provided bridging finance at the turn of the year. Given as said above Boddy provided an attendance budget of 9000 that says to me that the finances are very tight and there was a shortfall. Add to that the fact Otium required additional funding in 2017 of 500k and 530k in 2016 then the club is not living within its own means.

Bet that football finance 'expert' won't be tweeting anything about extra money having to be put in.

 

[oldskyblue58]

No they have not said that. If that was the case, they wouldn't have renewed us for another year. If anything I have only got the impression Wasps would like us to stay, purely for the revenue we berign in. The only reason they'd kick us out is if the court/legals situation deteriorates and they need to apply pressure.

Given their financial situation, it's likely that sooner or later they'll be receptive to a low-ish offer for us o take a stake in the Ricoh - certainly a lot lower than the cost of building a whole new stadium, which could come in at £40m. We could get 50% of the Ricoh for 5% of that price, in the right negotiating climate. That's what SISU are banking on.

Besides, you're thinking of a scenario where we own oru own ground and it's all done - it's like saying "we'd be better off if we were in the Premier League", well yes, but first you have to answer the questions around how we get into the new stadium scenario, viz
1 - who's going to pay for it?
2 - what'll it cost?
3 - impact on squad/team budget if we take money out to build
4 - etc

The income had better improve then because I doubt Wasps make much profit on CCFC. Quickest way to do that is to put the rent up of course. That's the catch though more income but more cost for CCFC quite possibly

You are suggesting that Wasps give or dispose of 50% of its Ricoh assets ? Fixed assets currently worth over £60m to them and with it 50% rights to the income generated at the site ? Give up control of the site and potentially be at stalemate with what to date from their point of view has been a troublesome tenant (split 50:50 is a recipe for stalemate). Wasps in great financial trouble then? Who is going to pay for this 50% stake ....... oh and any sale would have to be put to repaying the bondholders who have a charge over the lease so wont be so receptive to a cheap sale. CCFC be it under SISU or anyone else would not want to take on the bond finance or other liabilities Wasps have. Control of the site is the value worth having 50:50 doesn't give that and I am pretty certain Wasps wont want to give it up that's why they had a 250 year lease in the first place, nor would it be cheap.

Halve the bond liability and you improve the Wasps P&L by 1.2m pa and leaves 17.5m liability to repay with an asset they no longer control ............ not going to happen.

It would be cheaper for CCFC to build a small ground and we all know that wont happen

The best CCFC will get is a long term rent deal with better access to some of the stadium incomes, basically those related to Football. Wasps would be in a better position doing that rather than selling 50%

final thought....... it might suit Wasps to see CCFC gone, especially if we stay in L2, so they can put down a synthetic pitch (reduces overheads, opens up other uses, doesn't need relaying so often etc )

 

[oldskyblue58]

Bet that football finance 'expert' won't be tweeting anything about extra money having to be put in.

I doubt he even knows CD