UEFA EURO 2024 (17 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Has nothing to do with the conversation, if you remember it so well, why was it ok to finish 2nd to Sweden in the Group?

If you remember it so well, why do you not rue the missed opportunity of a relatively easy route to the final?

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

How old were you in 2002

There were 7 places between England and Sweden in the world rankings before the tournament and you're using it as a weird gotcha ..
How can you even comment on what football was like back then ??

England were 12th in the world

Again , how old was you in 2002

Like my daughter telling me how it was in Italia 90 , or my nephew telling me Maradona was shite compared to today's footballers

 

---

[Deleted member 5849]

I kind of follow your thinking, but if we had Saka at LB then from an attacking perspective you’d want Foden same side as Gordon may end up occupying the same areas of the pitch. Maybe you lean more on Rice to cover the LB spot when Saka drifts forward, but that then potentially exposes the middle of the pitch.

There is a fighting chance that Shaw is fit enough by the weekend as he was reportedly fit enough to have played a part yesterday.

Currently Shaw is looking like a panic / optimistic pick and it's asking a lot for him to be up to speed instantly even if fit.

As much a reflection on the lack of options there as the manager, but it's worrying he gets picked for the squad even if he only has one leg.

 

[Otis]

so Toney and Kane up front with Gordon on the wing in a 3-5-2?

Why not Kane at left back, because he spends much of his time, really deep and out on the wing.

 

[Otis]

Currently Shaw is looking like a panic / optimistic pick and it's asking a lot for him to be up to speed instantly even if fit.

As much a reflection on the lack of options there as the manager, but it's worrying he gets picked for the squad even if he only has one leg.

We signed Leigh Jenkinson on the same premise

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

How old were you in 2002

There were 6 places between England and Sweden in the world rankings before the tournament and you're using it as a weird gotcha ..
How can you even comment on what football was like back then ??

Again , how old was you in 2002

Compare the two teams, how many would start for England in a combined 11?

I’d give you Larsson, Melburg > Mills and Ljungberg.

Take the nostalgia tinted glasses off - this isn’t even worth debating. You’re wrong and bringing age into it shows it.

 

[Evo1883]

Compare the two teams, how many would start for England in a combined 11?

I’d give you Larsson, Melburg > Mills and Ljungberg.

Take the nostalgia tinted glasses off - this isn’t even worth debating. You’re wrong and bringing age into it shows it.

Course I'm wrong , says the child who's watched Southgate ball and thinks that's the be all and end all of English football

Germany are living proof that having the best individuals doesn't always mean you have the best team .

Sweden were a bloody tough side to play back then on their day

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Course I'm wrong , says the child who's watched Southgate ball and thinks that's the be all and end all of English football

Childish insults very much befitting your status as the more ‘mature’ person.

We were the higher ranked team by your own admission so the line of argument doesn’t make sense from the get go.

 

[Evo1883]

Childish insults very much befitting your status as the more ‘mature’ person.

We were the higher ranked team by your own admission so the line of argument doesn’t make sense from the get go.

Read the extension you just can't comment on an era of football you didn't experience with any authority .. I think that pretty much goes without saying

Like me telling my dad what England got wrong in 1970

Tell me all about man United in 1993 If you want ?

 

[SBAndy]

so Toney and Kane up front with Gordon on the wing in a 3-5-2?

In short, no.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Read the extension you just can't comment on an era of football you didn't experience with any authority .. I think that pretty much goes without saying

Like me telling my dad what England got wrong in 1970

Some of us can read and want to learn about different eras of football. It’s just plain ignorance to dismiss someone else’s experience of the tournament.

Especially when you hold a minority view. The consensus view is that the ‘golden generation’ should’ve achieved more.

 

[Evo1883]

Some of us can read and want to learn about different eras of football. It’s just plain ignorance to dismiss someone else’s experience of the tournament.

Especially when you hold a minority view. The consensus view is that the ‘golden generation’ should’ve achieved more.

Sure because reading is the same as living through it .. fact is there were many good international teams , now fuck want the books say because teams like Romania and Turkey were not shit .


The golden generation

France did back to back tournament wins
1998 -2000
Brazil won the world cup in 2002

Which tournament of these 3 should England have won , know it all ? Do tell

Actually add on 2004 , where we lost to Portugal on penalties who had a team half filled with the Porto team that won the Champions league 1 month earlier and the other half with top talent

Yea sure Portugal got fluked in the final missed a million chances but still

Which tournament should we have won

 

[SBAndy]

Sure because reading is the same as living through it .. fact is there were many good international teams , now fuck want the books say because teams like Romania and Turkey were not shit .


The golden generation

France did back to back tournament wins
1998 -2000
Brazil won the world cup in 2002

Which tournament of these 3 should England have won , know it all ? Do tell

Whilst I agree with the premise that international football was far more competitive, it’s a hell of a stretch to put Sweden in that fold. Just going to put the respective lineups for our knockout games next to each other:





Now it seems Ljungberg didn’t play in their game but I wouldn’t be sure I’d swap any of the other players. I’d be treeating Larsson/Owen as the viable swap as Allback was the ‘big man’ in the partnership.

Edit: and Turkey is an interesting one because they played with a lot more freedom compared to many of the other ‘bigger’ nations during the tournament. We’re seeing this emulated in this tournament by a number of the perceived smaller sides.

 

[Evo1883]

Whilst I agree with the premise that international football was far more competitive, it’s a hell of a stretch to put Sweden in that fold. Just going to put the respective lineups for our knockout games next to each other:

View attachment 36536

View attachment 36537

Now it seems Ljungberg didn’t play in their game but I wouldn’t be sure I’d swap any of the other players. I’d be treeating Larsson/Owen as the viable swap as Allback was the ‘big man’ in the partnership.

This Sweden team were very organised and were hard to beat , they drew with England and Argentina in the groups and were ranked just 7 places below us , we struggled against Sweden during this period , fact is they were better than they were on paper

I hated playing Sweden back then , I also hated playing Romania , we lost to them twice in the late 90s /00s

 

[Evo1883]

@SBAndy if we look at 2004 , people say we failed etc .. but did we really ?

Porto had just won the Champions league and I believe 5 or 6 of that starting 11 were in this portugal team and a load of other top talent sandwiched in , and england were stuck playing 442 with paul Scholes out wide



I don't see where we failed , we lost to arguably a more coherent team on pens

 

[PVA]

England have been poor for a while now.

3 wins in the last 9 games (including defeat to Iceland, draws with Macedonia, Slovenia and Slovakia).

Finished bottom of the group in the Nations League failing to win a single game.

Time for someone else to have a go, regardless of the result of this tournament.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Sure because reading is the same as living through it .. fact is there were many good international teams , now fuck want the books say because teams like Romania and Turkey were not shit .


The golden generation

France did back to back tournament wins
1998 -2000
Brazil won the world cup in 2002

Which tournament of these 3 should England have won , know it all ? Do tell

Actually add on 2004 , where we lost to Portugal on penalties who had a team half filled with the Porto team that won the Champions league 1 month earlier and the other half with top talent

Yea sure Portugal got fluked in the final missed a million chances but still

Which tournament should we have won

You’re missing the point still. Firstly, was that England underachieved in probably all of the tournaments. We did not make it past the quarters in any tournament. Euros can be forgiven, perhaps, but not the World Cup where the format has not changed.

1) Had we won the group in 2002, we would’ve been the highest ranked team in that side of the draw.

2) Had we won the group in 2004, we wouldn’t have face Portugal who, at the very least, had an even team with - hence we lost on penalties. Likewise with 2006.

3) 2010, had we won the group, ourselves and the Netherlands were the top ranked teams.

If we go on world rankings alone, the top seed failed to win the major tournaments in all but the 2008 Euros and 2010 World Cup. Therefore, it’s just about getting deep into the tournaments which we’ve failed to do because we’ve continually failed to win our group.

I don’t think Southgate is the best coach we’ve had but has so far been the best manager and the results speak for itself since Sir Alf.

 

[Sky_Blue_Daz]

So what changes would people make to the starting 11 on saturday?

 

[Evo1883]

You’re missing the point still. Firstly, was that England underachieved in probably all of the tournaments. We did not make it past the quarters in any tournament. Euros can be forgiven, perhaps, but not the World Cup where the format has not changed.

1) Had we won the group in 2002, we would’ve been the highest ranked team in that side of the draw.

2) Had we won the group in 2004, we wouldn’t have face Portugal who, at the very least, had an even team with - hence we lost on penalties. Likewise with 2006.

3) 2010, had we won the group, ourselves and the Netherlands were the top ranked teams.

If we go on world rankings alone, the top seed failed to win the major tournaments in all but the 2008 Euros and 2010 World Cup. Therefore, it’s just about getting deep into the tournaments which we’ve failed to do because we’ve continually failed to win our group.

I don’t think Southgate is the best coach we’ve had but has so far been the best manager and the results speak for itself.

Sure , we literally won the world cup with somebody else, but Gareth is the best

 

[Evo1883]

@Mucca Mad Boys

I think it's best we just make a deal to not talk about England with eachother , I actually argue less with my missus

 

[Nick]

Is there any hope Shaw is fit for next Saturday?

I can't see how, he hasn't played a game in months.

 

[San Francisco]

So what changes would people make to the starting 11 on saturday?

Konsa in because Guehi is suspended. Won't happen but I'd like to see a front two of Kane and Toney.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I can't see how, he hasn't played a game in months.

His last appearance being mid February.....

Mental decision to take him.

 

[SBAndy]

@SBAndy if we look at 2004 , people say we failed etc .. but did we really ?

Porto had just won the Champions league and I believe 5 or 6 of that starting 11 were in this portugal team and a load of other top talent sandwiched in , and england were stuck playing 442 with paul Scholes out wide

View attachment 36539

I don't see where we failed , we lost to arguably a more coherent team on pens

More coherent plays a massive part, I agree. The dominant Spanish team of 2008-2012 was effectively picked from 2 clubs. Always makes a difference.

There are a number of those players who weren't particularly good - looking at Ricardo, Valente, Maniche, Costinha. Obviously we led in the game, we also had a winner disallowed (Campbell), Rooney went off injured and it was their home tournament. They ended up losing to Greece in the final. I do think that was our biggest opportunity to win but probably wouldn’t regard it a disaster. Of more concern, for me, was 2006.

 

[shmmeee]

I can't see how, he hasn't played a game in months.

Well he’ll play again at some point!

 

[Paul Anthony]

Is there a chance Bellingham could get a ban? I didn't see anything at the time.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Fine at worst imo

 

[Nick]

Ref booking french players for telling him he was wrong. He was wrong

 

[Liquid Gold]

This ref hates the French and I'm here for it

 

[Nick]

Are the refs putting bets on bookings? That wasn't even a foul

 

[Nuskyblue]

They are but they have had some pretty big holes open up in their backline at times. Could see Germany taking chances against them.

England have been crap, no papering over how bad we have played. I do wonder if we would at least look better as a counter attacking team which we just haven't had opportunity to do against the teams we have faced. We look clueless against teams sitting deep.

They have looked suspect at the back but then so have we!

At least they look like scoring a goal once in a while...

 

[Alkhen]

They have looked suspect at the back but then so have we!

At least they look like scoring a goal once in a while...

Oh they would destroy us unless a miracle happens.

I was more commenting on their chances overall. The look so good going forward but Georgia did test them at the back. The quarters on that side of the draw should be a great watch

 

[Nuskyblue]

I also think switching to a 3-4-3 looks inevitable atm. We actually look better playing that formation too.

I would love to see 3-5-2 with Toney and Watkins.

Bypass the midfield, with balls into Tony, Bellingham and Watkins feeding off him.

Tbh I don't care what we do as long as we do it quickly!

3-4-3 probably gets our best players on the pitch in a sensible position tho so I'd settle!

 

[Nuskyblue]

Would never happen and I also don’t think he’d make a great international manager.

I think he could tbh.

He's smart enough to boil down and simplify his methods. Look at Wreck it Ralph with Austria, same basic tactics as Klopp yielding an outcome.

Guardiola is one that I think would stink out international football.

 

[Nuskyblue]

Is there any hope Shaw is fit for next Saturday?

Lol.

0%

Not played since Feb. A Brian dead pick.

 

[Nuskyblue]

Oh they would destroy us unless a miracle happens.

I was more commenting on their chances overall. The look so good going forward but Georgia did test them at the back. The quarters on that side of the draw should be a great watch

Georgia's play was so incicive. They played forward with real pace and conviction, it's probably taken many by suprise!