Ukip (2 Viewers)

Nonleagueherewecome · May 9, 2013

Houdi said:
As opposed to the ex Labour councillor Cyril Smith who attacked and raped 7 children at the Cambridge Boy's hostel.
Or Graham Pearson a Labour Party mayor at Rossendale,arrested for having a stash of violent rape photographs of very young children.
Or Labour party activist Ian Rankin jailed for having video material of the vilest kind of child sexual abuse.
Or Labour Party spin doctor Samuel Gankin arrested and charged with making and distributing obscene films of children being raped and abused.
Or Susan Smith an ex Labour Lambeth councillor jailed for a 3 week rape of a minor.
There are plenty more of these Labour Party activists who have been arrested and charged for some of the vilest crimes,all on the public record.
Ukip have banned any ex BNP members from joining I don't believe any of the major parties have followed.

Interesting that you avoid all the Tory criminals there? Shall we start with the slightly-more-recent Nigel Evans? Still, I suppose there are too many to list. And you don't don't call Cyril Smith a Lib Dem MP, do you? So much spin, you're worse than a politician! Even the fascistic UKIP.

Seeing as you are so au fait with PR, I would have thought that you'd be capable of grasping that the BNP ban was just that? Why did they have to ban them if they weren't inundated with applications?

Time to face up to the reality that you support a pathetic racist party.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Interesting that you avoid all the Tory criminals there? Shall we start with the slightly-more-recent Nigel Evans? Still, I suppose there are too many to list. And you don't don't call Cyril Smith a Lib Dem MP, do you? So much spin, you're worse than a politician! Even the fascistic UKIP.

Seeing as you are so au fait with PR, I would have thought that you'd be capable of grasping that the BNP ban was just that? Why did they have to ban them if they weren't inundated with applications?

Time to face up to the reality that you support a pathetic racist party.

Naming a couple of people that said some awful things doesn't make them all racists. By that logic what does that make Labour? The Tory's are no better. Some of them have done some really bad stuff too.

lordsummerisle · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
Naming a couple of people that said some awful things doesn't make them all racists. By that logic what does that make Labour? The Tory's are no better. Some of them have done some really bad stuff too.

It doesn't make Cyril Smith Labour whatever you say.

Besides, it's mostly the right-wing, Maggie loving 70's entertainers getting pulled up now for underage sex and rape.

Tad · May 9, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
It doesn't make Cyril Smith Labour whatever you say.

Besides, it's mostly the right-wing, Maggie loving 70's entertainers getting pulled up now for underage sex and rape.

I don't even know who she is, so I can't say, my point was none of the parties are saint like, but calling Ukip racist is completely wrong and ignorant.

Colonel Mustard · May 9, 2013

A sloppy, scattergun and partisan response filled with digressions. I'll be as succinct as I can.

Houdi said:
So perhaps you can tell us which Labour government ever left office with lower unemployment than when it took office.

A cherry-picked statistic that gleefully overlooks any kind of social, economic or political context. How about growth?

Or maybe tell us why the last Labour government had a manifesto commitment to cut public spending by 40 billion.

The Darling plan. One opposed by Ed Balls. Labour disagrees. They cannot all be shoved into one box.

Labour governments always run out of other peoples money to spend.

Your salary is my salary. We have to allow a portion of our money to be spent otherwise the economy would collapse like a house of cards. This is economics 101.

As your chief Secretary to the Treasury Liam Byrne said in a letter left at the Treasury in2010,'Sorry all the money's gone'.Never has he uttered a truer word.

"My" chief secretary? Weak.

If huge government spending was a panacea then Greece would be in paradise. Socialism is a mental illness and the Labour Party is its ayslum.

The Greece situation is complex. To capsulate it as evil, overspending socialism is lazy and wrong.

As fun as it was taking that detour, let's get back to the original discussion. Do you think Osborne's austerity plan is working?

Grendel · May 9, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
It doesn't make Cyril Smith Labour whatever you say.

Besides, it's mostly the right-wing, Maggie loving 70's entertainers getting pulled up now for underage sex and rape.

"Spanking" Harvey Proctor.

Colonel Mustard · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
but calling Ukip racist is completely wrong and ignorant.

Ukip is a one issue party that effectively says the UK's woes can be resolved by shutting out the foreigners. If not racist - and they are in the traditional territory of the far-right - then xenophobic.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Colonel Mustard said:
Ukip is a one issue party that effectively says the UK's woes can be resolved by shutting out the foreigners. If not racist - and they are in the traditional territory of the far-right - then xenophobic.

They're not shutting the doors. People will be allowed in. They're simply trying to take control of a situation that has been badly handled in the past. It's moronic to allow every person through the doors. At one point the gov was letting in as many people to fill a city a year. Your not seriously suggesting that's managable?

Grendel · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
They're not shutting the doors. People will be allowed in. They're simply trying to take control of a situation that has been badly handled in the past. It's moronic to allow every person through the doors.

The irony is that one of the most socialist manifestos namely the of Michael foots 1983 car crash campaign had far more in common with UKIP and BNP than any mainstream party. They would be campaigning on anti Europe immigration for sure.

Grendel · May 9, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Interesting that you avoid all the Tory criminals there? Shall we start with the slightly-more-recent Nigel Evans? .

So your socialist principals do not allow people a fair trial?

Proves you favour the left I suppose

Colonel Mustard · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
They're not shutting the doors. People will be allowed in. They're simply trying to take control of a situation that has been badly handled in the past. It's moronic to allow every person through the doors. At one point the gov was letting in as many people to fill a city a year. Your not seriously suggesting that's managable?

Of course I'm not suggesting that. I am saying - and will repeat - that Ukip is a one issue party that focuses on Johnny Foreigner. If Ukip don't fit the bill of a xenophobic party, then tell me what kind of party would! The trouble with all the immigration carnival barking is that it leads to arbitrary curbs and caps which only hurt the economy.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Colonel Mustard said:
Of course I'm not suggesting that. I am saying - and will repeat - that Ukip is a one issue party that focuses on Johnny Foreigner. If Ukip don't fit the bill of a xenophobic party, then tell me what kind of party would! The trouble with all the immigration carnival barking is that it leads to arbitrary curbs and caps which only hurt the economy.

Ukip to have a point though. With all these power now in the EU and not us, we're left with very little we can do when we have issues.
We can't do anything that concerns our country and it's needs and immigration is a big part of how it effects things in this country.

Colonel Mustard · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
Ukip to have a point though. With all these power now in the EU and not us, we're left with very little we can do when we have issues.

That is the message they peddle. It is simple, and a scared audience can latch onto it. But are you familiar with the laws that we've had rebuffed by Europe? Or, more alarmingly for the average worker, the rights that would no longer be guaranteed if we dispensed with European law?

We can't do anything that concerns our country and it's needs and immigration is a big part of how it effects things in this country.

Not true on either count.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
Ukip to have a point though. With all these power now in the EU and not us, we're left with very little we can do when we have issues.
We can't do anything that concerns our country and it's needs and immigration is a big part of how it effects things in this country.

Sovereignty still resides in parliament, the UK one. We can withdraw whenever we want.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Colonel Mustard said:
That is the message they peddle. It is simple, and a scared audience can latch onto it. But are you familiar with the laws that we've had rebuffed by Europe? Or, more alarmingly for the average worker, the rights that would no longer be guaranteed if we dispensed with European law?

No. I haven't heard. The chances are though it's all stuff that we'd simply put back in place without the EU. And it is true. More people mean more housing is needed, more pressure on the public services and that's if people have work. If they don't, it puts more pressure on taxes.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Sovereignty still resides in parliament, the UK one. We can withdraw whenever we want.

All parties have said, under current EU laws we have to keep an open door policy. Even Cameron said himself after the speech yesterday that the new immigration rules can only apply to non-EU members.

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

torchomatic said:
Robert Kilroy-Silk (UKIP MEP since 2004) wrote in the Daily Express: “They
[Muslims] are backward and evil and if it is racist to say so… then racist I must be –
and happy and proud, to be so”.

In December 2003, he discussed what he called “bleating blacks and Asians” in
Britain, asking “Why don’t they stop whining and get a life?”4
In the unrest following the Iraq war, Kilroy-Silk also went on record saying that
“the orgy of thieving in Iraq has more to do with the character of the people than
the absence of restraining troops. And to think that good, decent, law-abiding
young British and American men and women laid down their lives to liberate this
thieving mob”.

He believes that “Moslims everywhere behave with equal savagery”.6 And he also
referred to Ireland as “a country peopled by peasants, priests and pixies”.7 Robert
Kilroy-Silk later apologised for this remark.

Discussing Britain’s rise in HIV infections, he wrote “The indigenous population is
not responsible... It is the foreigners that we have to focus on”.

Nigel Farage (UKIP MEP since 1999, leader of the UKIP group of MEPs in the
European Parliament since 2004; former UKIP Chairman, 1998-2000 and cofounder,
UKIP) told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked “We will never win the
nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us”, according to Dr Sked.

Dr Richard North (UKIP’s former Research Director in the European Parliament,
Brussels from 1999-2003) described our Spanish neighbours as “rag-arsed dagos” in
a BBC TV documentary video, The Enemy Within , which UKIP has described as “a
perfect tool for converting the sceptical… and showing at branch meetings”.10
Peter Watson (Chairman, UKIP North Dorset branch) distributed anti-Semitic
messages via e-mail, including one remark that read “Jewish merchant bankers are] responsible for the ills of England”.11 The party refused to take any action
when Labour MEP Gary Titley brought it to their attention.

Frank Maloney (UKIP’s candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election), visited
Whitechapel in May 2004 and subsequently complained: “Barely anyone speaks
English and to look around you would think you are in a different country”.

(Itwas this remark that led Mayor Ken Livingstone to conclude, “UKIP are the British
National Party in suits”.)

Reigate Grammar School banned a planned political meeting on its premises after
it judged UKIP’s website to be “racist and offensive”.14 A UKIP leaflet circulated in
South Derbyshire during the 2004 European elections expressed the view that the
rest of Europe is ruled by “barbarians”.

What a bunch of cunts.

Anyone who claims that parties such as UKIP or the BNP are not racist is either naive, or a little bit thick.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Sick Boy said:
What a bunch of cunts.

Anyone who claims that parties such as UKIP or the BNP are not racist is either naive, or a little bit thick.

Go do some research you ignorant dolt. Ukip have never said they want all foreigners out.

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
Go do some research you ignorant dolt. Ukip have never said they want all foreigners out.

That is the sort of waffle the BNP apologists come out with as well.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Sick Boy said:
That is the sort of waffle the BNP apologists come out with as well.

*sigh* You know what, I really can't be bothered. Go read what I've said above. That's what Ukip are trying to sort out, it's not being racist, it's called common sense. Something that's been missing a lot in politics lately...

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
*sigh* You know what, I really can't be bothered. Go read what I've said above. That's what Ukip are trying to sort out, it's not being racist, it's called common sense. Something that's been missing a lot in politics lately...

You do realise that they are part of the, 'Europe of Freedom and Democracy, which includes the vile Italian party, Lega Nord. In fact, Farage is the co-president alongside Francesco Speroni. Have a look at the Italian media for some of Speroini's comments about the Breivik shootings.

Tad · May 9, 2013

Sick Boy said:
You do realise that they are part of the, 'Europe of Freedom and Democracy, which includes the vile Italian party, Lega Nord. In fact, Farage is the co-president alongside Francesco Speroni. Have a look at the Italian media for some of Speroini's comments about the Breivik shootings.

Yes, but I wasn't agreeing with everything about Ukip. I was saying that they have raised good points about the EU and immigration. I think that's the key area's the other parties are doing a really poor job at sorting out.

Steve.B50 · May 9, 2013

Call e what you want but I am now a member of UKIP.

lordsummerisle · May 9, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Call e what you want but I am now a member of UKIP.

A bit dim?

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

I couldn't care less, but I presume that you have done your research into them and are comfortable with them being part of the EFD.

Steve.B50 · May 9, 2013

Maybe I am dim, but like what they sad for,

What's the EFD?

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Maybe I am dim, but like what they sad for,

What's the EFD?

It's a Eurosceptic political group in the European parliament.

It is chaired by Farage & Francesco Speroni.

Speroni is a member of the far-right party in Italy called the Lega Nord.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14315108

http://nikkisinclairemep.blogspot.it/2011/07/vile-lega-nord-mep-and-ukip-colleague.html

"Mr Borghezio's reported comments are shocking and, if accurately reported, reprehensible. They are in no way reflective of UKIP's position or that of the EFD Group," said a UKIP spokesman.

You would have thought that such a fine and noble party would want to leave the EFD immediately, wouldn't you? Funny that nothing seemed to come of it though!

Grendel · May 9, 2013

This bloke could be the Womens Minister in a UKIP government;

A senior Ukip politician has hit back at critics who have called him a misogynist by posting pictures of himself with groups of women on the internet.

By Rowena Mason, Political Correspondent1:40PM BST 24 Apr 2013322 Comments
The Ukip MEP started posting to a web page entitled "Godfrey Bloom: The Misogynist?" last month.
He appears to answer this rhetorical question by posting pictures of himself with groups of women and a recording of himself speaking on the BBC's Woman's Hour.

The MEP has previously been criticised for asking why businesses would ever hire "a lady of child-bearing age".
He also once joked he wanted to get involved in women's rights issues because "I just don't think they clean behind the fridge enough".

In 2004, he dismissed "nonsense" claims that he was sexist, after a Cambridge University student claimed he had described a woman as "big tits, very feisty" and engaged in a "constant stream of sexist and misogynistic remarks".

One of the images on Mr Bloom's website shows him lying in front of members of a women's rugby club. Others show him with Ukip activists, while one appears to show him on a horse at a hunt alongside female riders.
He describes two of the images as "Godfrey and the girls".

Another section of Mr Bloom's website is called "Godfrey on.... women's rights". The page has a video labelled "Godfrey Bloom assailed by women MEPs for telling home truth", in which he criticises "draconian maternity leave" for causing fewer women to get jobs.
On the video, he says people would have to be "stark staring mad to employ a young women if you have a small business".
Asked whether his page is intended to counter accusations that he is a misogynist, Mr Bloom told The Daily Telegraph: "The TUC [a trade union] try to portray my views on employment legislation as misogynist. So, yes, is the answer."

Grendel · May 9, 2013

Tad said:
Yes, but I wasn't agreeing with everything about Ukip. I was saying that they have raised good points about the EU and immigration. I think that's the key area's the other parties are doing a really poor job at sorting out.

Just out of interest is immigration a huge issue? Lot's of things affect peoples lives but I cannot seriously think of one instance where I have thought -- too many immigrants here - what is it that is such a problem?

Steve.B50 · May 9, 2013

Why are so any people bothered about the UKIP .?
If there policies are so bad why are they the fastest growing party in the UK?
Why have the other parties all of a sudden come out and said we need to address Immigration?
To me I cannot see what being part of Europe does for me, yes I am saying me not the Government or other people but me?
Immigration is great and can help in many ways but we now need to cap the influx.

Sick Boy · May 9, 2013

Steve.B50 said:
Why are so any people bothered about the UKIP .?
If there policies are so bad why are they the fastest growing party in the UK?
Why have the other parties all of a sudden come out and said we need to address Immigration?
To me I cannot see what being part of Europe does for me, yes I am saying me not the Government or other people but me?
Immigration is great and can help in many ways but we now need to cap the influx.

They are not that bothered really, those who are bothered are Tories worrying that they are going to lose out to Labour in the next election. UKIP are not a serious threat in the UK, and will never be more than a protest vote or a pressure vote.

It is not a sudden thing that the main parties have come out and said immigration needs to be tackled.

Personally I love being European and would like to see greater integration of Europe, but that is just my opinion.

What do you think of the UKIP association with La Lega Nord?

Tad · May 9, 2013

BBC Question Time good tonight on all these issues.

To the person asking is immigration that big of a issue:

Yes. A lot more people turned up than they thought. Area's have been completely changed by the influx. Balance is needed and we haven't had that before. The EU does get in the way of this. The problem with the EU is, it's one rule for everyone. In theory, it sounds just and fair. But it's not. As you've probably seen in the papers, some people we simply can't get rid of thanks to the lack of power we now hold. People that abuse the system are difficult to stop too.

There is no question immigrates do a lot of good, but with the good has brought the bad that see the UK, Germany etc as something to abuse. In my view, and I think others share it, we're not dealing with it.

Personally, I've always thought Australia have a good system in place. They only let skilled workers that they actually need in that will contribute to the country.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 10, 2013

Grendel said:
So your socialist principals do not allow people a fair trial?

Proves you favour the left I suppose

Hmmm, because the right has a good record for that... Oh, what about the bastions of 'democracy', the USA, people are illegally detained in Guantanamo, without a fair trial also.

The principles of a fair trial are undermined by all sides of the political spectrum.

Grendel · May 10, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Hmmm, because the right has a good record for that... Oh, what about the bastions of 'democracy', the USA, people are illegally detained in Guantanamo, without a fair trial also.

The principles of a fair trial are undermined by all sides of the political spectrum.

But only by non league on this forum.

Mucca Mad Boys · May 10, 2013

Grendel said:
But only by non league on this forum.

Don't distort what NLWH said, he never said anything about a fair trial, but he, like so many, I'm guilty of it myself subconsciously sometimes, broke the 'innocent till proven guilty' principle, we all have tendencies to do so, it's easy to have bias subconscious thoughts without looking at real evidence, the influence of media is so powerful, but so bias at the same time.

LastGarrison · May 10, 2013

Grendel said:
Just out of interest is immigration a huge issue? Lot's of things affect peoples lives but I cannot seriously think of one instance where I have thought -- too many immigrants here - what is it that is such a problem?

Not just immigration but illegal immigration is having a massive effect on housing, jobs and the NHS in this country to name just three.

Of course immigration is an issue that needs to be looked at. Also, we need to look at the reasons why so many people choose to come to Britain bypassing many other EU countries on the way. Is it because we are such a wonderful country to live in or is it the access they have to such things as free education, health care etc.

Personally, I think immigration is a good thing but it does need tightening up. The amount of overseas students for example who come here on the pretence of studying then just "disappear" is shocking. The same with the system we have where illegal immigrants are just let go and told to report back at a certain time. How many actually do?

Same with people claiming to be 15 or under as it easier to get access to benefits etc. who are clearly not but have no identification to prove otherwise.

Our system, in my opinion, certainly needs to be tightened up.

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