USSR invades Ukraine. (44 Viewers)

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

The Rat I smell is for them to be dropping tactical Nuclear weapons from a distance. Removing their own troops from the immediate danger area.

I have to laugh at the title " tactical" nuclear weapon. As if it's soft and cuddly almost.

 

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[Otis]

 

[Marty]

View attachment 24287

'Friendly fire' are fairly common instances in war.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

'Friendly fire' are fairly common instances in war.

They are, in the 1991 Kuwait battle, USA were responsible for a quarter of USA deaths!

 

[Otis]

Refused to obey orders too?

Seems Putin treats his troops like shit

 

[Marty]

Refused to obey orders too?

Seems Putin treats his troops like shit

Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it. Just 'tensions', which could be anything, disagreement on tactics, investment, colour of uniform or even as something as petty as the choice of restaurant for tonight's meal. The lack of clarity almost certainly means it's either made up or insignificant.

You're being played like a fiddle by Western governments and the media. The west's propaganda machine is just as much in full swing as the Russian's. As the old saying goes 'believe half of what you see and none of what you hear'.

 

[PVA]

Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it.

Erm, that's exactly what it says

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it. Just 'tensions', which could be anything, disagreement on tactics, investment, colour of uniform or even as something as petty as the choice of restaurant for tonight's meal. The lack of clarity almost certainly means it's either made up or insignificant.

You're being played like a fiddle by Western governments and the media. The west's propaganda machine is just as much in full swing as the Russian's. As the old saying goes 'believe half of what you see and none of what you hear'.

Erm, second bullet point does indeed say refused to obery orders...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As an aside, just had a browse through friendly fire incidents.

Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in five deaths and three injuries.

I just wonder what happened after the hour for them to realise they were shooting at the wrong people!

 

[stupot07]

Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it.

Thats exactly what the second bullet point on the screen shot says - "Russaim troops have at times refused to obey orders"



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[Marty]

As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.

 

[PVA]

As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.

Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.

 

[Otis]

As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.

"My mistake" would have sufficed.

 

[Otis]

Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.

I would always be more likely to believe something coming from Western sources than from Russian.

Everything that comes out of Russia is controlled and state validated.

Here, besides governments (which I am always a little dubious of), you also have military history people, ex generals etc.

Sure, we can take things with a pinch of salt, and there is no way I believe everything said by the UK or US, but there is a wealth of info out there from this side and that involves multiple countries. There will always be a varying degree of opinion and disagreement on the info coming out from pretty much anywhere outside of Russia

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.

The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided

 

[Otis]

The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided

Very true.

Russia is renowned though for steering so well away from the truth, it's almost laughable.

 

[PVA]

The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided

Of course.

But we know that Russia's propaganda is on another level, and to say that "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's" is plainly not true.

 

[Grendel]

The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided

exactly

 

[Marty]

Of course.

But we know that Russia's propaganda is on another level, and to say that "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's" is plainly not true.

It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.

 

[PVA]

The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.

 

[Otis]

Example of the Russian side. Some military pundit over there has said that not only is the campaign going very well, but it will go down in history as a shining example of how all wars will be carried out in the future. That's how successful it is

Well, it is clearly not going to plan is it. Some stuff from the Russian side is absolutely unbelievable

 

[Marty]

The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.

Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.

 

[Otis]

The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.

I agree. Big difference between anything and everything, so I never take anything as fact, but think maybe there is some truth in it l, whereas, with Russia, I expect it all to be total bullshit

 

[duffer]

It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.

Hmm. That last bit is the kind of phrase that I'd expect to hear from your common or garden conspiracy theorist.

I'm all in favour of being cynical about what our Government posits as fact, especially given that the PM is a proven liar. But I suspect that's not really where you are on this and perhaps you're leaning more towards the tinfoil hat YouTube brigade. Consume and Obey?

Here's an alternative phrase; keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

In the meantime, have you got a link to that TikTok story you mention?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.

Those are two great examples of free media working as it should.

They have heard these stories and seen the footage so put it out in the public eye. Then other arms of the media have investigated them and proven them to be false and so released that to the public.

I don't even particularly trust our media and there is a lot of fog of war and propaganda from both sides but the notion that media in the west = media in Russia is absurd.

 

[PVA]

Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.

Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.

 

[Otis]

Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.

We know there is a lot of propaganda from the Ukrainian side.

My new missus (have to mention the "new" bit, because obviously old missus is Russian and it would be very confusing) keeps sending me stuff from the Ukrainian side, which is clearly just propaganda.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I think the key is to not just take one one piece of information from one source and treat it as gospel.

Take in multiple sources, give things time to settle and assess.

 

[Otis]

Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.

Here you go. Perfect example.

Russia universally sing from the same hymn sheet (apart from the few independent voices, who are either shut down or arrested).

So, the US intelligence said the invasion was happening and the French intelligence said it was not.

It's not one universal voice over here, as it is in Russia, so we can form a much more reasoned opinion, as we have varying sources

 

[Flying Fokker]

As an aside, just had a browse through friendly fire incidents.



I just wonder what happened after the hour for them to realise they were shooting at the wrong people!

The Ghurkas came back with pink ears rather than tanned trophies?

 

[skybluetony176]

Example of the Russian side. Some military pundit over there has said that not only is the campaign going very well, but it will go down in history as a shining example of how all wars will be carried out in the future. That's how successful it is

Well, it is clearly not going to plan is it. Some stuff from the Russian side is absolutely unbelievable

Maybe he was referring to Ukrainian tactics not Russian

 

[skybluetony176]

If anyone is confused why refugees arrive by rubber boats here’s your answer.



There is no route for asylum in the UK.

 

[tisza]

Role of the media in war always different. Russia and Ukraine aren't going to be broadcasting anything that shows them in a negative situation - for political and morale reasons.

 

[Otis]

Role of the media in war always different. Russia and Ukraine aren't going to be broadcasting anything that shows them in a negative situation - for political and morale reasons.

True, but then Russian media don't broadcast anything negative about the regime there anyway, at any other time either.

 

[shmmeee]

It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.

Ironically this isn’t true.