I've literally differentiated right there in that post. I know you struggle with comprehension though.
You and your fellow tankies are the binary boys really.
I haven’t excused anything in Ireland. You’re seriously conflating 400 years of history between the UK and Ireland with Putin invading another country in the 21st century. Even what happened 100 years ago took 300 years to get to that point.Fucking hell. You’re the one coming out with excuses for it happening in Ireland, not me.
If you can’t work it out yourself, you’ve got no business trying to be condescending to others.
I haven’t excused anything in Ireland. You’re seriously conflating 400 years of history between the UK and Ireland with Putin invading another country in the 21st century. Even what happened 100 years ago took 300 years to get to that point.
We’re supposed to be living in different times and if anyone is excusing what’s happened in Ireland it’s you with your “an agreed settlement will have to be reached involving Ukraine giving up land to Russia” nonsense. On that basis I’m guessing that you don’t believe that a border poll should ever be allowed in Northern Ireland regardless of the Good Friday Agreement? No, I didn’t think so.
No and I never said such a thing to begin with.Condescending my arse. From someone who responded to another post with a laughing emoji?
It's a straight question, try a straight answer.
Are you saying that we shouldn't support Ukraine against Russia because of elements of our history?
Don’t you like to refer to the GFA as the surrender act? If you’re looking for ridiculous you’re it.Even for you this is ridiculous
No and I never said such a thing to begin with.
Every geopolitical action is hypocrisy if you go back far enough.No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.
Exactly. It’s the moral thing to do but through any lens letting it play out and Russia to have its way is colossally stupid. There is no situation, framework or justification that make a good argument to not help Ukraine.In fact I'd go on to say that even if you ignore the moral argument, it's in our own interests to do so - we're weakening a potential threat to other western democracies, including our own, without having to risk our own citizens' lives.
I was pointing out the poster’s hypocrisy and double standards.Every geopolitical action is hypocrisy if you go back far enough.
What a stupid fucking comment.
Exactly. It’s the moral thing to do but through any lens letting it play out and Russia to have its way is colossally stupid. There is no situation, framework or justification that make a good argument to not help Ukraine.
All the whataboutism, corruption and hypocrisy don’t change that. The fact that these arguments are literally word for word examples of the Russian propaganda should give people pause for thought. Some staggering stupidity in this thread.
“But the USA and coups. I am very smart.” Fuck me.
What hypocrisy? I think the Irish were right to fight the English for independence. Are you saying that the Irish were wrong?I was pointing out the poster’s hypocrisy and double standards.
Just once in a while it would be nice to have a debate on this forum without every thread hinging on shoddy analogies and ad hominem attacks. But today is not that day.
If Russians had settled in these areas hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, and identified as Russian today in big enough numbers to form a majority, you might have a point. There is also a clearly outlined political pathway for Ireland to be unified if its people want that to happen.No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.
I have only ever heard it referred to as that by two people. Grendel, and a former UDR man who we met in Belfast.Don’t you like to refer to the GFA as the surrender act? If you’re looking for ridiculous you’re it.
The DUP like to use it. But they also don’t believe same sex couples don’t have the right to marriage, some of them at least believe the earth is flat, they believe dinosaurs are a hoax and they don’t believe women have the right to ownership over their own bodies. Not exactly good company to be in.I have only ever heard it referred to as that by two people. Grendel, and a former UDR man who we met in Belfast.
They might be the same, who knows
In combination with the Tories they’ve done great work to destabilise the union they’re meant to care about. But that’s for another discussionThe DUP like to use it. But they also don’t believe same sex couples don’t have the right to marriage, some of them at least believe the earth is flat, they believe dinosaurs are a hoax and they don’t believe women have the right to ownership over their own bodies. Not exactly good company to be in.
I don't think I've ever said "we should leave them to it".Thank you. So if we leave Ireland out of it, we're back to the question of supporting Ukraine against Russia.
Your argument, I think, is that we should leave them to it, and I accept that you're probably coming at it from a humanitarian viewpoint on that rather than as a Putin sympathiser.
My counter is that it is morally wrong to allow a sovereign European democracy to be overthrown by force by an autocratic dictator. I'd argue that as long as Ukraine is willing to fight for its freedom, we should give them as much support as possible to do so.
In fact I'd go on to say that even if you ignore the moral argument, it's in our own interests to do so - we're weakening a potential threat to other western democracies, including our own, without having to risk our own citizens' lives.
I don't think I've ever said "we should leave them to it".
As I've said many times, I believe it's a conflict that no side will win under the current circumstances, and despite what was claimed, Russia isn't about to collapse and Putin isn't about to drop dead. I was even accused of being a Putin sympathiser for saying the conflict is essentially a stalemate, despite it being a view shared by the recently sacked head of the armed forces in Ukraine. I think that the failure of the counter-offensive has made this especially clear; the only way Russia will be defeated is if the West actually joined in the war, which isn't going to happen.
At the moment, the war has the potential to remain this way for years to come, with neither side getting anywhere; Putin knows that Ukraine is wholly dependent on the West and that the appetite to keep funding a stalemate will eventually end. Even compared to last year, there has been a shift after the counter-offensive failed to deliver.
At the moment, the envisaged outcome of it all isn't clear; the labelling of those who bring this up or suggest that Ukraine isn't going to have a glorious victory with the status quo as "Putin sympathisers" is ridiculous.
Given the system he's set up, I'd be somewhat concerned by who might follow hm into power anyway.and Putin isn't about to drop dead.
Given the system he's set up, I'd be somewhat concerned by who might follow hm into power anyway.
I don’t disagree but let’s not pretend that the countries in the West are doing it for the people of Ukraine.It’s a fair assessment. As I mentioned earlier in the week it’s how you get from stalemate to a solution that works for Ukraine/Ukrainian people that’s the challenge
BBC saying Russia advancing further in the east heading west .. Ukraine retreating .
They really do need to try and negotiate a ceasefire here somewhere , countries like the UK that are in recession cannot keep funding this war
An agreement that will be broken in two-three years as Putin wades in again.There is an inevitability that an agreement has to be sought and sooner rather than later to save lives.
The alternative is that the West actually joins the fight against Russia, which will inevitably lead to nuclear war just prior to the fall of Putin.An agreement that will be broken in two-three years as Putin wades in again.
I know all the options are shit, it's just Grendel seems to think that make a deal, Putin goes away and everyone lives happily ever after. No more war and death.The alternative is that the West actually joins the fight against Russia, which will inevitably lead to nuclear war just prior to the fall of Putin.
I suppose the hope is to get this far has drained enough resources that Russia would need to regroup before going anywhere else, and that could well take longer than when they walzed into Crimea virtually unopposed.I know all the options are shit, it's just Grendel seems to think that make a deal, Putin goes away and everyone lives happily ever after. No more war and death.
I'm just pointing out it's bollocks. He would come back again. Conceding anything to him will just embolden him to go further.
I know all the options are shit, it's just Grendel seems to think that make a deal, Putin goes away and everyone lives happily ever after. No more war and death.
I'm just pointing out it's bollocks. He would come back again. Conceding anything to him will just embolden him to go further.
The alternative is that the West actually joins the fight against Russia, which will inevitably lead to nuclear war just prior to the fall of Putin.
An agreement that will be broken in two-three years as Putin wades in again.
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