USSR invades Ukraine. (36 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Mar 15, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
It is

It’s quite possible that was the point of the attack on the military base near Poland yesterday too. As far as I can tell that’s where all the volunteer veterans were staying while waiting for arms before deployment. It’s getting reminiscent of the scud missile attacks on Israel by Sadam Husain in the initial gulf war. Same for the military aid request to China. I think if Russia is getting arms support from China it means China is involved as far as Russia is concerned. Hopefully the actions of a desperate man that ultimately fail.

SBT · Mar 15, 2022

Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 15, 2022

SBT said:
Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?

That's the point where it's difficult to imagine the thoughts of a madman, but like I said before it may well be he knows he's very ill and often people with his kind of mindset think the world is worthless without them in it, so if it ends in hellfire it doesn't matter. Other option is that isolation during covid without rational voices to temper his major ambitions mean he's lost his mind to his desires and now no-one dare try and discourage him.

SBT · Mar 15, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
That's the point where it's difficult to imagine the thoughts of a madman, but like I said before it may well be he knows he's very ill and often people with his kind of mindset think the world is worthless without them in it, so if it ends in hellfire it doesn't matter. Other option is that isolation during covid without rational voices to temper his major ambitions mean he's lost his mind to his desires and now no-one dare try and discourage him.

I’m sorry……what?

AOM · Mar 15, 2022

SBT said:
Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?

I don't really understand this theory either.
Can't see Russia (or I'd realistically anyone) gaining from a World War scenario, and surely they'd want to act first rather than let the west leap into action and make the first attack?

I guess it might prove to the Russian people the threat of the west is real, but doesn't seem a good enough reason to force things to really kick off to me

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 16, 2022

AOM said:
I don't really understand this theory either.
Can't see Russia (or I'd realistically anyone) gaining from a World War scenario, and surely they'd want to act first rather than let the west leap into action and make the first attack?

I guess it might prove to the Russian people the threat of the west is real, but doesn't seem a good enough reason to force things to really kick off to me

You think they are killing journalists accidently??

PVA · Mar 16, 2022

The Russian advance seems to have come to a halt.

Seems the only way they can take Kyiv is if they absolutely flatten it. Hopefully they do not go down that route but we know they have form for it.

This invasion becomes a bigger mistake by Putin by the day and harder to win with each passing day.

duffer · Mar 16, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
You think they are killing journalists accidently??

I think the reason for targeting journalists is to try to suppress independent reporting of the war.

There are two reasons I can think of for that; firstly the war clearly isn't going as planned, and secondly the Russian forces are also committing war crimes by directly and deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.

Above all other things though, tyrants of all kinds of can't bear an independent press (even at the best of times). It's no surprise to me that they are at risk.

AOM · Mar 16, 2022

Sky Blue Pete said:
You think they are killing journalists accidently??

Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?

its a bizarre theory

skybluetony176 · Mar 16, 2022

AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?

Isn’t Putin already in a scenario that he can’t win? Not saying 100% he’s trying to start WW3, just pointing out that going into a scenario he can’t win isn’t a deterrent to Putin.

AOM · Mar 16, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
Isn’t Putin already in a scenario that he can’t win? Not saying 100% he’s trying to start WW3, just pointing out that going into a scenario he can’t win isn’t a deterrent to Putin.

True. Maybe he thought Ukraine would be a lot easier than it has been?
Going against a combined western force would be madness though. Hopefully doesn't come to that

RegTheDonk · Mar 16, 2022

I don't think he's actively targetting foreign journos, not when you've got loads of people uploading their own mobile footage. More likely he's not bothered what civvies get killed in the crossfire. If they're in the way, that's their look out.

I can't see what's to gain by provoking us, he's got enough on his plate, and surely his Generals wouldn't be advising that course. But if he wanted a major ruck then he'd make a direct attack on a NATO country, not fanny around taking out targets/people within Ukraine.

skybluetony176 · Mar 16, 2022

AOM said:
True. Maybe he thought Ukraine would be a lot easier than it has been?
Going against a combined western force would be madness though. Hopefully doesn't come to that

Undoubtedly he thought Ukraine would be easy. Whether that’s down to his own delusions, his generals telling him that their armed forces are better than they are in reality, or a combination of both coupled to the fact that the Ukrainians are well trained, well equipped and highly motivated. His state of mind seems to be typical of despot dictators, always think they’ve got the upper hand.

PVA · Mar 16, 2022

Sounds promising

Sky Blue Pete · Mar 16, 2022

PVA said:
Sounds promising

And compensation for the death and destruction one would hope

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

PVA said:
Sounds promising

Hopefully something comes of it and the war can stop, but the idea Russia can get a country to act against its own interests with military threat doesn’t sit right with me.

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
Hopefully something comes of it and the war can stop, but the idea Russia can get a country to act against its own interests with military threat doesn’t sit right with me.

you keep implying you’d like some military action here from the west to defend Ukraine

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
you keep implying you’d like some military action here from the west to defend Ukraine

Id like a sovereign nation to make their own decisions and not be left at the whims of a dictator.

What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.
We’ve established you’re a coward who would leave the Ukrainians to their deaths I’m not sure what going over it again accomplishes other than feeding your need for attention.

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
Id like a sovereign nation to make their own decisions and not be left at the whims of a dictator.

What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.
We’ve established you’re a coward who would leave the Ukrainians to their deaths I’m not sure what going over it again accomplishes other than feeding your need for attention.

We’ve established i am a coward - so you’d join up and fight? Or send some other idiot to die to satisfy your sense of fair play?

You also seem to be missing a basic point that the leaders of the West (thank God) tend to agree with me and not you and some of the other crackpots on here

That kind of mentality is what started World War 1

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 16, 2022

SBT said:
I’m sorry……what?

Basically, he's doing it because he's either ill and doesn't care about the consequences or he's removed himself from other people to such an extent that there's been been no counter argument to his thought process.

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
We’ve established i am a coward - so you’d join up and fight? Or said some other idiot to die to satisfy your sense of fair play?

You also seem to be missing a basic point that the leaders of the West (thank God) tend to agree with me and not you and some of the other crackpots on here

That kind of mentality is what started World War 1

As I’ve said before I’m not sure how much use I’d be, but sure if conscription happened. I’m not sure why you think conscription would be necessary though.

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Basically, he's doing it because he's either ill and doesn't care about the consequences or he's removed himself from other people to such an extent that there's been been no counter argument to his thought process.

Oddly dictators don’t really in general engage with counter arguments

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
As I’ve said before I’m not sure how much use I’d be, but sure if conscription happened. I’m not sure why you think conscription would be necessary though.

oh no I don’t think one drop of British blood should be lost on Ukrainian soil. I’m not into throwing soldiers out to die personally

PVA · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.

Because they've absolutely fucked it. Putin knows it, his generals know it.

I'm sure they can sell Ukraine not joining NATO and no arms from the West as a win back home to the gullible idiots.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 16, 2022

AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?

It's a question that's been asked before in history but still the wars happen.

I can only guess there is something in the mind of people like Putin and Hitler that makes them believe that they cannot lose. So even if they started such a war they would end up the victors. And every time they get away with something it just increases that belief. That's why they tend to remove themselves from other people when things start going wrong, because they think it can't be their fault it's happening so it must be down to others. Therefore those people are failures and cannot be trusted.

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
oh no I don’t think one drop of British blood should be lost on Ukrainian soil. I’m not into throwing soldiers out to die personally

I have a bit more faith in our armed forces than you. I also have a bit more faith in Putins self preservation mechanisms. Do you really think he’d be doing what he is right now if the US was ready to step in?

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
I have a bit more faith in our armed forces than you. I also have a bit more faith in Putins self preservation mechanisms. Do you really think he’d be doing what he is right now if the US was ready to step in?

i have a lot of faith in our armed forces I personally don’t see the necessity of creating another pointless episode of bloodshed - in which people will lose sons and husbands - when diplomacy will be a far better outcome

I don’t see it a cowardly act not wanting more wasted British deaths in a trouble zone that’s always been a powder keg since crimea was bizarrely transferred to the soviet state of Ukraine in tbe 50’s. It’s no more valid than Afghanistan or Iraq

The US comment is just stupid - you seem to think this is like a board game. If the US was involved in hostile action against Russia its the first time since the Cuban Missile Crises when the threat of all out nuclear war was very real. Kennedy in tbe end made concessions in turkey because oddly you make concessions

You seriously think the Balkan states, the Middle East and of course China and little rocket man wouldn’t start an escalation process the minute the us defended a non Nato country

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

PVA said:
Because they've absolutely fucked it. Putin knows it, his generals know it.

I'm sure they can sell Ukraine not joining NATO and no arms from the West as a win back home to the gullible idiots.

Jesus Christ what’s wrong with you? It’s like a computer game to you isn’t it?

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
i have a lot of faith in our armed forces I personally don’t see the necessity of creating another pointless episode of bloodshed - in which people will lose sons and husbands - when diplomacy will be a far better outcome

I don’t see it a cowardly act not wanting more wasted British deaths in a trouble zone that’s always been a powder keg since crimea was bizarrely transferred to the soviet state of Ukraine in tbe 50’s. It’s no more valid than Afghanistan or Iraq

The US comment is just stupid - you seem to think this is like a board game. If the US was involved in hostile action against Russia its the first time since the Cuban Missile Crises when the threat of all out nuclear war was very real. Kennedy in tbe end made concessions in turkey because oddly you make concessions

You seriously think the Balkan states, the Middle East and of course China and little rocket man wouldn’t start an escalation process the minute the us defended a non Nato country

I don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.

I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?

Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.

Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.

You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.

PVA · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
Jesus Christ what’s wrong with you? It’s like a computer game to you isn’t it?

What on earth are you on about.

You said it was 'inevitable' that Kiev would have fallen about 10 days ago so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

shmmeee said:
I don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.

I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?

Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.

Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.

You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.

Yet every western leader agrees with me

Fair enough

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
Yet every western leader agrees with me

Fair enough

Well the one in Ukraine doesn’t for a start.

And we’ve not got to the actual point of any western leader agreeing or disagreeing with the proposals in the peace talks yet.

Grendel · Mar 16, 2022

PVA said:
What on earth are you on about.

You said it was 'inevitable' that Kiev would have fallen about 10 days ago so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Ok. Try telling half the population who have evacuated Kiev, the others cowering as buildings are crushed, the millions evacuating to strange lands with no knowledge if they will ever return, people starving in the eastern provinces that Grendel doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I’m sure they will feel a whole lot better tonight in the knowledge Putin and his generals have fucked it

We really live through the eye glass of social media now don’t we

PVA · Mar 16, 2022

Grendel said:
Ok. Try telling half the population who have evacuated Kiev, the others cowering as buildings are crushed, the millions evacuating to strange lands with no knowledge if they will ever return, people starving in the eastern provinces that Grendel doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I’m sure they will feel a whole lot better tonight in the knowledge Putin and his generals have fucked it

We really live through the eye glass of social media now don’t we

Good grief.

You said Kiev would fall within days. It hasn't. You were wrong, massively so.

Just admit it.

Do you really think it's going well for Russia?

Please stop getting your news from GBeebies.

USSR invades Ukraine. (36 Viewers)

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