USSR invades Ukraine. (12 Viewers)

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
I wonder when it stops being useful and becomes inflammatory to ruin the Russian economy. Isn’t that what happened after world war 1 and led to world war 2?

I don’t know the answer but it strikes me that we need to leave putin room to step towards peace rather than with no hope whatsoever and no options whatsoever. Even if that’s only in his mind
The problem with Versailles is that It crippled a peaceful German democracy. Economic sanctions should be put on the megalomaniacal Putin to remove Russia's ability to wage war when they're actually waging it and then if he is removed we should support the development of a democratic Russia just as was done to West Germany post WWII
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Guessing the difference with Germany and Russia would be Russia's huge resources of energy will enable it to recover fairly quickly once sanctions are lifted.
WW2 recovery was different because it involved the near total removal of the Nazi regime but more importantly Govts wanted a strong Germany to combat the threat of the Soviet Union.
For all the talk I haven't yet seen anyone prominent offer a practical method of getting Putin to withdraw that would be acceptable to both sides. Maybe these talks will throw up something but does feel "well we tried" exercise for domestic consumption.
Good shout that and I agree with the last sentence
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
The problem with Versailles is that It crippled a peaceful German democracy. Economic sanctions should be put on the megalomaniacal Putin to remove Russia's ability to wage war when they're actually waging it and then if he is removed we should support the development of a democratic Russia just as was done to West Germany post WWII
That’s absolutely true too. Post aggression is a different question. Yep
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
The Russians have said they've put their nukes on special alert because of comments made by Liz Truss which they have objected to.

Unclear at the moment which comments they have objected to.


D6scwvwWsAAqZKw.jpg
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
The problem with Versailles is that It crippled a peaceful German democracy. Economic sanctions should be put on the megalomaniacal Putin to remove Russia's ability to wage war when they're actually waging it and then if he is removed we should support the development of a democratic Russia just as was done to West Germany post WWII

Agree with this but I also understand where Pete is coming from, there might have to be some kind of ‘get out’ for Putin.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I think the get out needs to be provided to another member of his inner circle who has the army on side and will remove him tbh
That does strike me as the most likely route to ending this but its hard to gauge what the Russian population in general think of what is happening let alone his inner circle.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
Fuck sake. Russians shelling civilian areas of Kharkiv.


Not just shells but also videos of them using cluster bombs. They are completely indiscriminate and why most countries have banned them.
Fear this is just the start of a serious escalation from the Russians.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
The Russians have said they've put their nukes on special alert because of comments made by Liz Truss which they have objected to.

Unclear at the moment which comments they have objected to.


Don’t worry, Liz has got the perfect nuclear deterrent!




DRUHiaVX4AAPcl4.jpg
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Not just shells but also videos of them using cluster bombs. They are completely indiscriminate and why most countries have banned them.
Fear this is just the start of a serious escalation from the Russians.

Holding peace talks about their peacekeeping mission… while they shell civilian apartment blocks.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
The Russians have said they've put their nukes on special alert because of comments made by Liz Truss which they have objected to.

Unclear at the moment which comments they have objected to.


View attachment 23999
Shouldn't have said it was okay for UK individuals to go and fight in Ukraine. That was considered a crime for those who went to fight for or against ISIS. Gives Russia a chance to claim it is some sort of NATO involvement on the ground in Ukraine
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Presumably he thought the Ukrainians would surrender/comply. I guess going in heavy means that there are going to be problems once he’s got what he wanted.
[/QUOTEof those convoys need to be dealt with. this would at least make that harder. Fuel supply seems to be a problem so the bigger the convoy the better it gets if they can be hot from the air.
 

xcraigx

Well-Known Member
Ukraine ask for a ceasefire during the talks, Russia ramp up their efforts on Kharkiv and are now firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. This is going from very bad to worse and I fear todays talks will amount to Russia only accepting unconditional surrender and if that is not forthcoming then Kiev will be flattened in short order.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Shouldn't have said it was okay for UK individuals to go and fight in Ukraine. That was considered a crime for those who went to fight for or against ISIS. Gives Russia a chance to claim it is some sort of NATO involvement on the ground in Ukraine

I was reading a piece from a Lawyer that says that law really couldn't be used as it is specifically anti terror. There is an anti foreign enlistment law but that hasn't been used since the 19th century was not used even on the people who went and fought in the Spanish Civil War
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
The Russians have said they've put their nukes on special alert because of comments made by Liz Truss which they have objected to.

Unclear at the moment which comments they have objected to.


View attachment 23999

Do people actually listen to her ?!! 😂

Joking apart I presume this related to Truss not objecting to Uk citizens joining the International Brigade to fight in Ukraine. Unwise/naive comments as it might encourage amateurs going over as freedom fighters and also gives Russia some ammunition when it comes to the propaganda war. We can’t stop people doing this and I’m sure ex military will go over…hardly a nato nation joining the war though

The fact that Russia have seized upon this to try to justify their nuclear threat is ridiculous, however, I heard James O’Brien lapping up their comments and try to make out that Truss is some kind of nuclear war monger 🤦‍♂️ He needs to remember these are the same people that say they have invaded ukraine to de-nazify them and remove their drug addled leaders ie we should ignore everything they say as it’s usually bullshit
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Do people actually listen to her ?!! 😂

Joking apart I presume this related to Truss not objecting to Uk citizens joining the International Brigade to fight in Ukraine. Unwise/naive comments as it might encourage amateurs going over as freedom fighters and also gives Russia some ammunition when it comes to the propaganda war. We can’t stop people doing this and I’m sure ex military will go over…hardly a nato nation joining the war though

The fact that Russia have seized upon this to try to justify their nuclear threat is ridiculous, however, I heard James O’Brien lapping up their comments and try to make out that Truss is some kind of nuclear war monger 🤦‍♂️ He needs to remember these are the same people that say they have invaded ukraine to de-nazify them and remove their drug addled leaders ie ignore everything they say as it’s bullshit
Truss is just majorly out of her depth - she’s a key cabinet member, so of course they’re going to listen/seize on what she’s said.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Ukraine ask for a ceasefire during the talks, Russia ramp up their efforts on Kharkiv and are now firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. This is going from very bad to worse and I fear todays talks will amount to Russia only accepting unconditional surrender and if that is not forthcoming then Kiev will be flattened in short order.
Is it too late for them to say just leave us alone and we promise not to join NATO or the EU? Might counter the excuse of Russia's aggression of feeling threatened. Appreciate that's a climbdown and it it's to an extent giving in to bullies. but it will at the moment save lives and not every bully has an aresnal that could wipe out most of the planet.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Truss is just majorly out of her depth - she’s a key cabinet member, so of course they’re going to listen/seize on what she’s said.

I was joking about someone listening to her…as in I don’t

My point is anyone who believes what the Russians say in attempts to justify their actions is probably as equally stupid as truss. Agree that comments were unwise/naive
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
Is it too late for them to say just leave us alone and we promise not to join NATO or the EU? Might counter the excuse of Russia's aggression of feeling threatened. Appreciate that's a climbdown and it it's to an extent giving in to bullies. but it will at the moment save lives and not every bully has an aresnal that could wipe out most of the planet.
Problem is what binding guarantees can be given and whether it stops Russia employing similar tactics in the likes of Moldova & Georgia.
There is an agreement (Budapest1994 ) that Russia guaranteed to respect Ukranian territorial sovereignty in exchange for them removing their nuclear weapons.

  1. Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[17]
  2. Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

Obviously Russia have ripped that one up.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Not just shells but also videos of them using cluster bombs. They are completely indiscriminate and why most countries have banned them.
Fear this is just the start of a serious escalation from the Russians.
They’re also still active after a ceasefire. When Isreal use them in Gaza they killed almost as many people after the ceasefire as they do during the “conflict”. Usually children too playing on bomb sites.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
1812E79E-1E1B-4162-8DA5-EB35DB62DCEA.jpeg

Read this earlier which is at least a little bit more reassuring ie at the moment a madman can’t just say ‘press the button’. Although lets hope the doctrine isn’t currently being updated on Putins Commodore 64
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
View attachment 24000

Read this earlier which is at least a little bit more reassuring ie at the moment a madman can’t just say ‘press the button’. Although lets hope the doctrine isn’t currently being updated on Putins Commodore 64
I dunno, missiles targiting its allies surely includes Belarus etc.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
View attachment 24000

Read this earlier which is at least a little bit more reassuring ie at the moment a madman can’t just say ‘press the button’. Although lets hope the doctrine isn’t currently being updated on Putins Commodore 64
lol you jest! I hope it's a bit more "reliable information" than a previous scare in the 80s' when the sun's reflection on the US bases tripped the "incoming" alarm!
 

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