Fuck sake.
I guess shooting down those 300 innocent people was fair game then. Grendel wins the moral high ground yet again.
USSR invades Ukraine. (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
Fuck sake.
I guess shooting down those 300 innocent people was fair game then. Grendel wins the moral high ground yet again.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Given Labour are already saying it’s “worse than we thought” why aren’t we using what money we have to spend on the Uk?
amp.theguardian.com
UK will give Ukraine £3bn a year ‘for as long as it takes’, says Starmer | Defence policy | The Guardian
Prime minister holds first official bilateral talks with Volodymyr Zelenskiy at Nato summit in Washington
Pathetic straw man as per.
The tweet is from a guy who studies Russia. This thread is about Russia and Ukraine.
I'm sorry that every historical downing of a jet hasn't been mentioned in this thread first.
skyblueelephant76
Well-Known Member
The Ukraine example was a tragic mistake during Ukrainian-Russian military air-defence exercises. They also paid compensation.
It's a bit different than the MH17 example.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ahh that one. From about 25 years ago when Russia had a Vichy government in Ukraine so had no interest in invading it. Wondered WTF he was going on about for a moment. Wasn’t it launched from a Russian military installation based in Ukraine? So essentially it was still the Russians.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
In fact, if you look into it Russia has a bit of history of shooting down commercial airliners. They shot down a 747 travelling from Korea to the USA in 83 killing almost 300 people. Straw man arguments in attempt to justify Russia shooting down commercial airliners because they’re no worse than the USA isn’t the hill to die on someone thinks it is.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tell that to the families of the dead
Grendel
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I love the way you use this one as if it somehow makes me stupid and you smart when the truth is if you had have spent 5 minutes on wiki yourself you would see how stupid and inaccurate your straw man argument was in the first place.
Russia's Black Sea Fleet leaves Crimea.
Hell of an achievement for Ukraine considering it doesn't really even have a navy, and a big embarrassment for Russia.
www.atlanticcouncil.org
Hell of an achievement for Ukraine considering it doesn't really even have a navy, and a big embarrassment for Russia.
Russia’s retreat from Crimea makes a mockery of the West's escalation fears
The Russian Navy's quiet retreat from Crimea highlights the emptiness of Putin's red lines and the self-defeating folly of Western escalation management, writes Peter Dickinson.
www.atlanticcouncil.org
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And one of occupation.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Especially if it’s with Russia. Nice way to dilute it though.
I don't understand why there always has to be a 'yeah but' from some posters when appalling Russian acts are pointed out.
How hard is it just to say actually yes, shooting down a plane of 300 civilians or raping a child is beyond abhorrent, without needing to point out that other nations or groups have done similar things.
How hard is it just to say actually yes, shooting down a plane of 300 civilians or raping a child is beyond abhorrent, without needing to point out that other nations or groups have done similar things.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’s hardly diluting it; it’s the reality of war.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I don’t disagree.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t need pointing out, that’s why it’s diluting it. Especially when Russia does it XL.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’s the reality of war that some are advocating continuing with to achieve an unrealistic outcome at this point.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Here’s the thing, no other European or Western country has ever done it on the scale Russia does and to make matters worse it’s visibly escalating in occupied Ukraine too. What you’re doing in trying to draw an equivalence is pretty grotesque to be blunt with you. I seriously think you need to go away, read some of the UN reports and comments on what’s happening in occupied Ukraine and then give your head a wobble.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
You can’t be that naive surely? The occupation of Japan is infamous for it and a lot of it will of course be undocumented.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Sometimes when you’re in a hole it’s better to stop digging. You’re about 2 posts away from going yeah but what about Genghis Khan and his Mongolian horde.
duffer
Well-Known Member
What about the impact on innocent civilians who do not wish to live under Putin's rule.
How does that work under your process of appeasement (let's call it for what it is, eh).
duffer
Well-Known Member
And on the war crimes thing, absolutely it happens in every war, but the more civilised nations do at least occasionally prosecute their own soldiers for the worst offences.
For the Russians though, it's been an deliberate instrument of terror since WW2. When's the last instance of a Russian court prosecuting anyone in its own military, except for desertion?
For the Russians though, it's been an deliberate instrument of terror since WW2. When's the last instance of a Russian court prosecuting anyone in its own military, except for desertion?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I have no idea but it will be the reality of the situation within the next year. It’s been the reality of the situation for a long time now.
duffer
Well-Known Member
If you've no idea, then let's drop the pretence that it is all about protecting innocent civilians.
The reality of the situation is that Ukraine wants to fight to defend its democratic sovereignty.
Its innocent civilians seem willing to support its Government to do that. Our choice is whether to support them or not.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
No one was worse than Russia in WW2 with the possible exception of the Japanese. In Berlin there’s a burial ground that has 5000 dead Russian soldiers in it, there’s a big memorial in the centre of a red army soldier waving a sword while holding a child. It’s known locally as the tomb of the unknown rapist. Everywhere Russia occupied was horrific for local girls and women, the Poles and Romanians got it especially bad but nowhere they occupied had it particularly easy. Russia to this day still brushes it off as a western myth. Which only makes it worse again.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Russia would prefer not as that would be a de facto support Russia.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
My main concern is most certainly innocent civilians on both sides, many of whom don’t want to fight. Once Trump is back in power there won’t be more funding and Ukraine is going to be in a vulnerable position.
I’d imagine I’ve donated more money to Ukrainian civilian charities than the majority of posters on here, BTW.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t need to make you look stupid Tonester - you can achieve that on your own