USSR invades Ukraine. (3 Viewers)

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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
So ... what we said all along ?

Crazy that so many people had to die and so many trillions and squazillions spent before this amazing realisation happened
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Indeed
 
fatso

fatso

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
So ... what we said all along ?

Crazy that so many people had to die and so many trillions and squazillions spent before this amazing realisation happened
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And they'll still be some bellends on here saying Russia can be beaten, or that Putin won't stop at Ukraine and he'll roll his troops into Poland next and then the rest of Europe.

Honestly you can only laugh at the ignorance.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
So ... what we said all along ?

Crazy that so many people had to die and so many trillions and squazillions spent before this amazing realisation happened
Click to expand...

This is like saying “it’ll be in the last place you look”. All wars end with a diplomatic solution. Even if that solution is “OK you’ve killed everyone on my side I give up”
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
So ... what we said all along ?

Crazy that so many people had to die and so many trillions and squazillions spent before this amazing realisation happened
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That financial and military (human) cost is likely the difference between a diplomatic resolution that is acceptable to Ukraine and one that isn’t.
 
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
This is like saying “it’ll be in the last place you look”. All wars end with a diplomatic solution. Even if that solution is “OK you’ve killed everyone on my side I give up”
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The Ukrainian stance was until now there would be no talks until Russia exited Ukraine - including rather laughably Crimea.

His game is now over
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
This of course is the problem with having Biden sleeping in the White House for a few more weeks until Trump can actually stop this nonsense
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Ah yes because handing over large parts of Ukraine to Russia, denying them entry to nato and pulling military aid is a great way to 'stop this nonsense'.

No more missile attacks or invasions ever again. No siree. Definitely not.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Ah yes because handing over large parts of Ukraine to Russia, denying them entry to nato and pulling military aid is a great way to 'stop this nonsense'.

No more missile attacks or invasions ever again. No siree. Definitely not.
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Denying entry to NATO is a must
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
How are those kind of conditions tenable if there’s popular support among Ukrainians for joining either the EU or NATO in the future? Aren’t we just then back where we were in 2014?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
How are those kind of conditions tenable if there’s popular support among Ukrainians for joining either the EU or NATO in the future? Aren’t we just then back where we were in 2014?
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I know the EU can make entry rules up as they go along but allowing Ukraine entry would mean they have torn up all rules of entry

Frankly it’s all entirely tenable as Ukraine are not in a position to dictate anything
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Quite strange American foreign policy, that it change between Presidents,no long-term thinking no statecraft?
Or deliberate tooing and frowing, must be profit in there somewhere!
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I know the EU can make entry rules up as they go along but allowing Ukraine entry would mean they have torn up all rules of entry

Frankly it’s all entirely tenable as Ukraine are not in a position to dictate anything
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For the time being, sure. But if 10 years from now there’s another popular movement in support of EU membership that’s blocked by a military treaty agreed with Russia, it doesn’t bode well for political stability there.

The history of imposing these kinds of limits on a country’s political sovereignty as part of a post-war agreement contains many cautionary tales.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
How are those kind of conditions tenable if there’s popular support among Ukrainians for joining either the EU or NATO in the future? Aren’t we just then back where we were in 2014?
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Quite. Many people are very keen to negotiate on Ukraine's behalf without bothering to ask what Ukraine wants.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
The country has next to no leverage. Zelenskyy has also said the war must end next year via diplomatic means.
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Everyone wants a diplomatic outcome, but if the terms aren’t sustainable then it’s pointless.

It’s one thing to surrender territory as part of the deal, but not sure how many countries would tolerate surrendering sovereignty over its own affairs for generations to come, regardless of how little leverage they have today.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile we have had raging inflation as by product of it and more.assets snapped up and up to a million dead ,and still pledging 3B per year ATM, Brexit has many by products doesn't it!
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
The country has next to no leverage. Zelenskyy has also said the war must end next year via diplomatic means.
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Well, based on Trump's son saying that Ukraine would be 'losing its pocket money', I think we can assume that Trump is going to pull American support which is great news for Putin.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well, based on Trump's son saying that Ukraine would be 'losing its pocket money', I think we can assume that Trump is going to pull American support which is great news for Putin.
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Yup. That hands Putin a win.

At what price to the Russian people though? All those thousands of lives lost. Not that Putin cares though
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well, based on Trump's son saying that Ukraine would be 'losing its pocket money', I think we can assume that Trump is going to pull American support which is great news for Putin.
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Would you have rather Starmer was spending £3 billion a year on Ukraine rather than here to ensure more lives were lost?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Yup. That hands Putin a win.

At what price to the Russian people though? All those thousands of lives lost. Not that Putin cares though
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Well it's more expensive a price than would be ideal, but depending on how disinterested Trump is, he'll be able to take at least a big slice of Ukraine, perhaps more.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Would you have rather Starmer was spending £3 billion a year on Ukraine rather than here to ensure more lives were lost?
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The funding is needed to bring Russia to the table for any kind of settlement. If you take it away without one, it's the green light for Putin to take whatever he wants.

Which is your preference of course.
 
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