Wasps bid for Ricoh Arena valued at £30million (5 Viewers)

[Rob S]

How come the club have an option on the shares? Sorry, big thread and I haven't been paying attention to this story particularly.

This move would circumnavigate a contractual clause which could potentially still entitle the Ricoh’s current sporting tenants, Coventry City, to ‘first option’ rights on the charity’s shares in ACL.

(From the article)

 

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[Samo]

Course it is good news at means SISU will feck off

And be replaced by who? Potential owners of a club that has no stake in the stadium it plays in and may be homeless in two years? They'll be lining up.

 

[Moff]

Can somebody explain how Councillors can be forced to vote for something they don't agree with? I don't know how it works.

They are forced to vote how the party wishes, as enforced by the local party whip, a member who will tell them how to vote whether they agree or not.

If they go against this, they could at worst, lose the party whip, which basically means they become an independent, and may not be sleected as a candidate for the party at the next local election, and so unless they stood as an independant would lose their seat.

This would mean loss of nice expenses, allowances etc, and so their nose would have to come of the trough it so freely feeds from, namely the tax payers money. This isnt likely to happen as it would be like a trukey voting for christmas.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

Pity you completely rubbished the person who can do just that in the Brighton radio thread the other day, eh? ;-)

Really .. What could you have done that the others who have failed to.

We have been at this for 18 months now and still have not got that answer.

Talking one sided nonsense on a Brighton Radio station was a way of getting into SISU's good books was it.

It's not too late .. So if you think you can get an honest answer from them please do. but I won't hold my breath..

 

[Nick]

They are forced to vote how the party wishes, as enforced by the local party whip, a member who will tell them how to vote whether they agree or not.

If they go against this, they could at worst, lose the party whip, which basically means they become an independent, and may not be sleected as a candidate for the party at the next local election, and so unless they stood as an independant would lose their seat.

This would mean loss of nice expenses, allowances etc, and so their nose would have to come of the trough it so freely feeds from, namely the tax payers money. This isnt likely to happen as it would be like a trukey voting for christmas.

So basically the vote outcome is known before they even vote? Not really a vote then is it?

 

[shmmeee]

This move would circumnavigate a contractual clause which could potentially still entitle the Ricoh’s current sporting tenants, Coventry City, to ‘first option’ rights on the charity’s shares in ACL.

(From the article)

Doesn't really answer my question. Thanks though.

 

[Huckerby]

goodness me.

the plot thickens

 

[Moff]

So basically the vote outcome is known before they even vote? Not really a vote then is it?

Unless they grow some collective balls. I wont hold my breath.

 

[Kingokings204]

Ccfc will surely at worst always be tenants at the Ricoh? Just like they are now. Why would that ever have to change? Surely wasps would love to be the landlord to the city's football team.

I don't like the way every time I read it it says "wasps lead consortium" something is definitely happening here imo. Sisu and/or ccfc have to be involved in this deal. I'm convinced.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Well there is a price then....

30 million for a new stadium (at least) or I am sure SISU would be be able to negotiation a slightly better deal than as above to outmanoeuvre the wasp consortium.

Say about 25 million over a prolonged period for all of ACL.

It's not all of it though, the Council will retain 10%.


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[bigfatronssba]

I'm confused as to why the newco have any first option to buy the Ricoh. I hope Simon can clarify where that has come from as my understanding was it belonged to CCFC Ltd.

 

[shmmeee]

So basically the vote outcome is known before they even vote? Not really a vote then is it?

The whip system isn't quite as Moff makes out. A whip will try and ensure that the party has a majority in the vote and work out what the likely result is (watch House of Cards (either UK or US) for a fair example of how it's done). Nothing's stopping members from "rebelling" against the leadership. That happens less at a national level since to get to MP level you have to be vetted and preened by party leadership pretty much, but from what I know of local politics whipping is a lot harder and the leadership tends to have less of a grip on rebels. That said, as has been mentioned before unfortunately CCFC and even more so Cov RFC aren't exactly vote winners compared to other issues. From what I've gleaned from comments around the Ricoh issue, both parties seem to be sick to the hind teeth of it and I'd expect would jump at the chance to hear the last of it.

 

[bigfatronssba]

And be replaced by who? Potential owners of a club that has no stake in the stadium it plays in and may be homeless in two years? They'll be lining up.

Well it has been stated as fact by many on here that no one else would ever want to buy the Ricoh, so no one can predict who is out there wanting to buy.

 

[Rob S]

Really .. What could you have done that the others who have failed to.

We have been at this for 18 months now and still have not got that answer.

Talking one sided nonsense on a Brighton Radio station was a way of getting into SISU's good books was it.

It's not too late .. So if you think you can get an honest answer from them please do. but I won't hold my breath..

This is fantastic. We'll come back to this tomorrow

 

[Rob S]

Doesn't really answer my question. Thanks though.

Do you mean why is the clause there?

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

This is fantastic. We'll come back to this tomorrow

great ... in the meantime I have a deal to do at the Ricoh

 

[Nick]

This is fantastic. We'll come back to this tomorrow

The last one of these was quite good.

 

[skybluetony176]

It doesn't if it turns out to be like OSB says ith only 7m changing hands though? Or am I thinking of something different? (yes I know it is just guesses from people)

Correct me if I'm wrong but the original price that SISU agreed with Higgs for their share was £5.5M. SISU then said that they wanted to pay X pounds upfront and the balance over X amount of years. When Higgs asked for proof of funds that's when SISU came back with the £2M because Joy recognised that they are a charity, all hail Saint Joy.

Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick it now seems that Higgs will receive not £2M, not £5.5M but £7M so the deal can good through.

So £5.5M doesn't look too bad of a deal. Especially when you take into account SISU's legal bills they wouldn't be paying and CCC's legal bills that they wouldn't have been paying and all the lost revenue from the Northampton move. And all the lost revenue from half of the non football revenue since they would have taken control of the Higgs share and the lost opportunity for ARVO to restructure the debt to the benefit of ARVO (isn't that what SISU really are? a vehicle to gain opportunity for ARVO to restructure debt? Surely that's where their profit is, sorry was?) and the opportunity to create the right atmosphere that promotes success on the field increasing the value and saleability of CCFC.

Looks to me that SISU have really fucked up and fucked us over in the process.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I have to say I feel sorry in the main for our supporters and the supporters of Wasps.. This situation completely highlights the issue with modern sports.


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[stupot07]

The only way that would turn positive if the consortium were also targeting CCFC

Why would they want 2 loss making sports clubs? The Ricoh won't make enough to fund them both.


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[Nick]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the original price that SISU agreed with Higgs for their share was £5.5M. SISU then said that they wanted to pay X pounds upfront and the balance over X amount of years. When Higgs asked for proof of funds that's when SISU came back with the £2M because Joy recognised that they are a charity, all hail Saint Joy.

Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick it now seems that Higgs will receive not £2M, not £5.5M but £7M so the deal can good through.

So £5.5M doesn't look too bad of a deal. Especially when you take into account SISU's legal bills they wouldn't be paying and CCC's legal bills that they wouldn't have been paying and all the lost revenue from the Northampton move. And all the lost revenue from half of the non football revenue since they would have taken control of the Higgs share and the lost opportunity for ARVO to restructure the debt to the benefit of ARVO (isn't that what SISU really are? a vehicle to gain opportunity for ARVO to restructure debt? Surely that's where their profit is, sorry was?) and the opportunity to create the right atmosphere that promotes success on the field increasing the value and saleability of CCFC.

Looks to me that SISU have really fucked up and fucked us over in the process.

You could be right, I am confused myself.

I was going off this:

clear cash looks like it is what £7m or less

So I went off £7 million from Wasps changing hands in real money and not terms and conditions etc.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Can somebody explain how Councillors can be forced to vote for something they don't agree with? I don't know how it works.

If they don't follow the whip, party line whatever, they could see themselves expelled from the party. So, when the next elections come up, the party puts other candidates up for election. They would have to go it as independents if they still wanted a seat on the council. Pay their own deposits, do their own campaigning etc. And we know that independents don't often get elected.

Away from that, I'm angry for us fans. We don't know how this will affect CCFC. We don't know how SISU will respond. It could be another spell of being in libo, not knowing wft is going to happen to us.

I feel yet again powers out of our control are deciding the club's future and there's fa we can do about it.

Got to feel sorry for WASPs fans too.

 

[SkyBlueSid]

So basically the vote outcome is known before they even vote? Not really a vote then is it?

That's how politics works. It always has. You get elected on a party ticket so are expected to vote with that party. Take a look at parliament, the government wins no matter what has been argued during the debate. Very few issues lead to a free vote.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I have to say I feel sorry in the main for our supporters and the supporters of Wasps.. This situation completely highlights the issue with modern sports.


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& Cov Rugby of course

 

[RoboCCFC90]

& Cov Rugby of course

Of course you couldn't forget about Cov Rugby..


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[stupot07]

no they are buying the shares to stop the charity having to offer the shares to CCFC before anyone else..... not quite the same as stopping matching offers. If they didn't do that SISU, who have repeatedly said they do not want to buy ACL and will build their own ground, could block a sale of something they say they not interested in. That could lead to court cases, delays and possibly compensation

And I would guess this deal doesn't actually stop CCFC being at the Ricoh if they choose to be .......

Of course building their own ground is an option...... an expensive one but still an option

It is interesting though, most of us thought that the first option clause had been defunct by the breaking of the lease


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[stupot07]

Ccfc will surely at worst always be tenants at the Ricoh? Just like they are now. Why would that ever have to change? Surely wasps would love to be the landlord to the city's football team.

I don't like the way every time I read it it says "wasps lead consortium" something is definitely happening here imo. Sisu and/or ccfc have to be involved in this deal. I'm convinced.

I'm sure we'll bet more than happy being tenants in our yellow and black stadium. I love forward to a lifetime of league one - championship yo-yo football because we will very likely never get to the PL renting and getting no/little additional revenue. We will also not be particularly desirable to potential owners. Oh well two fingers up at sisu happy days


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[Lord_Nampil]

Some one on Twitter suggesting will vote no.....

 

[Grendel]

All of a sudden £5.5M for the Higgs Share looked a bargain. Still, at least we have the appeal to look forward to now.

Well done SISU you're geniuses. How's are new stadium coming on?

Christ, don't you read anything on here?

 

[stupot07]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the original price that SISU agreed with Higgs for their share was £5.5M. SISU then said that they wanted to pay X pounds upfront and the balance over X amount of years. When Higgs asked for proof of funds that's when SISU came back with the £2M because Joy recognised that they are a charity, all hail Saint Joy.

Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick it now seems that Higgs will receive not £2M, not £5.5M but £7M so the deal can good through.

So £5.5M doesn't look too bad of a deal. Especially when you take into account SISU's legal bills they wouldn't be paying and CCC's legal bills that they wouldn't have been paying and all the lost revenue from the Northampton move. And all the lost revenue from half of the non football revenue since they would have taken control of the Higgs share and the lost opportunity for ARVO to restructure the debt to the benefit of ARVO (isn't that what SISU really are? a vehicle to gain opportunity for ARVO to restructure debt? Surely that's where their profit is, sorry was?) and the opportunity to create the right atmosphere that promotes success on the field increasing the value and saleability of CCFC.

Looks to me that SISU have really fucked up and fucked us over in the process.

You are wrong Tony, there are no facts, the £7m is a guess so I wouldn't be hanging your hat on it if I was you. Moreover the article questions that Higgs might noy get all their money back


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[skybluetony176]

You could be right, I am confused myself.

I was going off this:



So I went off £7 million from Wasps changing hands in real money and not terms and conditions etc.

Just to add to that confusion. It's been suggested that the club still have the option of first refusal on the Higgs share. Does that mean that they will have to offer £7M to exercise that right and save the day for the football club? That would be another £1.5M it costs SISU on top of the £5.5M they could have paid if so.

 

[Grendel]

If this deal means that Wasps are franchised away from their fanbase, then it's wrong.

I don't care if it's better for CCC, ACL, CCFC and Cov RFC, if it tears Wasps away from their supporters then it's morally wrong, and we should all stand against it.

SISU have dropped us in the sh*t with their ridiculous mismanagement, but that doesn't absolve either the Council or The Higgs Trust for their actions if this goes ahead. Any councillor with the hint of a conscience should vote against this.

They should as it deprives a community of their rugby club and also ruins the local rugby club.

They won't though.

 

[Rob S]

Just to re-iterate...

The £30m could easily be along the lines of £14.4m loan, £12m naming rights & £3.6m left for Higgs & CCC. We have no idea about the individual numbers so it's not really worth trying to extrapolate what equity etc. is from 'worth £30m' as it is such a general figure.

 

[Grendel]

Just to add to that confusion. It's been suggested that the club still have the option of first refusal on the Higgs share. Does that mean that they will have to offer £7M to exercise that right and save the day for the football club? That would be another £1.5M it costs SISU on top of the £5.5M they could have paid if so.

What are you on about? Higgs will almost certainly not get anywhere near that price.

 

[skybluetony176]

You are wrong Tony, there are no facts, the £7m is a guess so I wouldn't be hanging your hat on it if I was you. Moreover the article questions that Higgs might noy get all their money back


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OK.

Regardless, when you take all the other points I've raised it still sounds a snip at £5.5M. I'm guessing the lost opportunity for ARVO to restructure the debt is probably the biggest kick in the nuts. Maybe that is what the JR was really about. If they'd won the opportunity may have come back again. It's a theory anyway.