Wasps current finances & hope (3 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Hate to see the others then

Will they be spending £7 million to upgrade?

 

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[Terry Gibson's perm]

Will they be spending £7 million to upgrade?

They will spend whatever it takes as long as they are not paying for it themselves

 

[Ian1779]

I have consistently said for the last couple of years that their finances are suspect, this has come from people I know who have a lot of knowledge of the game, and not some car park owning, jonny come lately fan who thinks he is on the inside when he couldn't be further away.

Its clear to see that the playing budget is stretched beyond its capabilities, whilst they have liabilities on the stadium, and with bond repayments. Crowds aren't what they should, and the signs are there re the training facilities and squad changes that imply all is not well.
Forgetting Italia's flannel, its clear to see that all is not well, and now a leading Rugby journalist Chris Foy, and Steve Brown (generally about all clubs) have suggested finances are stretched, and there are issues.

I would say that should they not reach the Premiership final this year (Go on Exeter!) we may see some more evidence of this playing out. Even if they can hold it together for next season it's really shit or bust next time round for them.

 

[duffer]

I’ve always thought it was a poor site for academy. The security is inadequate and access by the public through the site is by a cross cross of footpaths. Nothing to do with the politics.

Funny how both you and they forgot to mention it at the time, eh.

The council and Wasps made a huge deal about their academy moving to the City, with all the jobs and infrastructure benefits to the town etc. And strangely enough it doesn't really seem to be happening.

Basically Wasps owners spout almost as much bollocks as SISU, and the councillors and council officers who fell over themselves to support this move should be feeling pretty embarrassed right now. Some have lied through their teeth, some have been played for mugs, some have done both!

 

[Moff]

Basically Wasps owners spout almost as much bollocks as SISU and Italia, and the councillors and council officers and Italia who fell over themselves to support this move should be feeling pretty embarrassed right now. Some have lied through their teeth, some have been played for mugs, some including Italia have done both!

Amended for you

 

[oldfiver]

When a new stadium sponsor is announced come back.
For the record at the time I actual said it was LR. Whether they are still interested remains to be seen.

They would probably need it to repay Compass loan that is not that far away from repayment

As detailed in this Section 7 under the heading “ - Overview of the business of IEC”, in 2012, ACL entered into joint venture and licensing arrangements with Compass Group Limited (“Compass”). As part of such arrangements, Compass provided an interest free unsecured loan to ACL of £4,000,000. This sum is repayable by ACL to Compass in 2019 in the event that ACL does not renew the various agreements that it has in place with IEC.

 

[Nick]

The best bit is that we had people like Italia and the Telegraph making out Wasps were really kind for offering to rent us the Higgs at commercial prices.

 

[chiefdave]

Rugby Football Union chief executive Steve Brown feels the current financial situation at many Premiership clubs is a concern.

Only one top-flight English club made money last year - Exeter Chiefs, who beat Wasps to win their first Premiership title - amid widespread unease over escalating costs.

"It's always a worry," Brown told BBC Radio 5 live.

"It's never good to see clubs in financial difficulty."

One of the principal investors in Saracens, South African businessman Johann Rupert, recently withdrew his financial support for the club, while the BBC has learned of at least two Premiership sides who have been late paying agents' fees and image rights this season.

"I think by definition clubs are spending more than they currently have coming in," said Brown.

 

[Grendel]

I’ve always thought it was a poor site for academy. The security is inadequate and access by the public through the site is by a cross cross of footpaths. Nothing to do with the politics.

Odd - you said it could accommodate both

Formal Planning Objection from CCFC

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ve always thought it was a poor site for academy. The security is inadequate and access by the public through the site is by a cross cross of footpaths. Nothing to do with the politics.

You’re now starting to sound like all those posters who were trying to make out it was shit when we temporarily abandoned it while the Sixfields/administration nonsense was happening SISU were pretending that they were going to build a new stadium training ground and academy. It wasn’t shit then and it isn’t now. It doesn’t have the CAT status it does by accident.

 

[Nick]

The "CCFC don't want to invest in the Higgs like Wasps do" type nonsense worked out well.

 

[Grendel]

Councillors will be heading for a nuclear bunker if this goes like it looks where it’s going

 

[skybluetony176]

I have consistently said for the last couple of years that their finances are suspect, this has come from people I know who have a lot of knowledge of the game, and not some car park owning, jonny come lately fan who thinks he is on the inside when he couldn't be further away.

Its clear to see that the playing budget is stretched beyond its capabilities, whilst they have liabilities on the stadium, and with bond repayments. Crowds aren't what they should, and the signs are there re the training facilities and squad changes that imply all is not well.
Forgetting Italia's flannel, its clear to see that all is not well, and now a leading Rugby journalist Chris Foy, and Steve Brown (generally about all clubs) have suggested finances are stretched, and there are issues.

To be fair you have Moff. I thought in most respects it was fairly sound but it’s not looking that way and I’m big enough to admit that, while also delighted that I was wrong. Maybe I should listen to you more. Only a little though what has surprised me is not so much that it is coming down around their feet but the speed it appears to have happened.

 

[covcity4life]

great thread to read through

what happens from here? OSB to give us the lowdown when their accounts are finnaly published?

what are chance sof them giving up and leaving? what would happen to the ricoh? sold back to council or could sisu get it?

 

[Nick]

Councillors will be heading for a nuclear bunker if this goes like it looks where it’s going

Nah it will be campaigning to keep CCFC in Coventry because the deal is up at the end of the season.

 

[chiefdave]

Basically Wasps owners spout almost as much bollocks as SISU, and the councillors and council officers who fell over themselves to support this move should be feeling pretty embarrassed right now. Some have lied through their teeth, some have been played for mugs, some have done both!

The local media should be heaping pressure on the council now over the statements they made at the time of the sale regarding state of the art facilities for the Coventry public, no damage to CCFC, no damage to CRFC etc. That's never really been addressed.

Where do CRFC train? If Wasps are going tits up, and I think we're a long way from them giving up and heading back to London, I wouldn't have an issue with CRFC and, a hopefully post SISU, CCFC working together more closely. They could share the Ricoh and go in with someone like Warwick Uni for shared training facilities.

Would be interesting to see what happened if at some point a joint CCFC / CRFC venture called on the council for support.

 

[covcity4life]

i know crfc are doing quite well now. how many divisions are they below wasps?

 

[chiefdave]

i know crfc are doing quite well now. how many divisions are they below wasps?

They'll be in the division below Wasps next season. One more promotion for Cov or relegation for Wasps and they're in the same division.

 

[covcity4life]

They'll be in the division below Wasps next season. One more promotion for Cov or relegation for Wasps and they're in the same division.

imagine ccfc fans joining crfc fans to pack at ricoh against wasps

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Councillors will be heading for a nuclear bunker if this goes like it looks where it’s going

I just wish it'd all happen before Thursday's local elections. People might actually do something about them then.

 

[skybluetony176]

Councillors will be heading for a nuclear bunker if this goes like it looks where it’s going

They got the debt to the taxpayer cleared. Can’t imagine it will effect them at all.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To be fair you have Moff. I thought in most respects it was fairly sound but it’s not looking that way and I’m big enough to admit that, while also delighted that I was wrong. Maybe I should listen to you more. Only a little though what has surprised me is not so much that it is coming down around their feet but the speed it appears to have happened.

I'm still of the wait and see. Nothing appears to be terminal... yet, although it'd be fabulous if it turns out to be, and if we could just nudge them a little that way... On a bigger scale, remember Man Utd's financing was potentially suspect, but they appear to have ridden that storm.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think that's a strange comparison, one of the biggest teams in world sport (never mind just football) and Wasps. The Wasps public delusions of grandeur are rubbing off!

I'm still of the wait and see. Nothing appears to be terminal... yet, although it'd be fabulous if it turns out to be, and if we could just nudge them a little that way... On a bigger scale, remember Man Utd's financing was potentially suspect, but they appear to have ridden that storm.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think that's a strange comparison, one of the biggest teams in world sport (never mind just football) and Wasps. The Wasps public delusions of grandeur are rubbing off!

Not really. It's about the financing... which is always risky, it's just the scaling. If Man Utd had stayed outside CL places, they could have had serious issues.

Likewise, it's entirely possible Wasps *can* ride out this storm. It'd be lovely if they don't... and if they don't, then the approach to wait for the Ricoh to be even cheaper, and not to sign a long term rental deal, would have been entirely the right one from SISU... wouldn't it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not really. It's about the financing... which is always risky, it's just the scaling. If Man Utd had stayed outside CL places, they could have had serious issues.

Likewise, it's entirely possible Wasps *can* ride out this storm. It'd be lovely if they don't... and if they don't, then the approach to wait for the Ricoh to be even cheaper, and not to sign a long term rental deal, would have been entirely the right one from SISU... wouldn't it.

Not sure about that, United's year on year turnover and profit grew even when they weren't in the Champions League (EBITDA up to £191.9m at 30 June 2016 from £120.3m at 30 June 2015). Agree that being in the Champions League is important for them, but they are so big that it's less of an issue than with many other clubs.

Shows the gap in football though really, Man Utd total annual revenue is £515m, over 103 times what CCFC's is and 16 times Wasps!

United have net debt at 30 June 2016 of £261m (i.e. nearly half of their annual turnover) whereas Wasps' net debt is £43.4m, 140% of turnover.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not sure about that, United's year on year turnover and profit grew even when they weren't in the Champions League (EBITDA up to £191.9m at 30 June 2016 from £120.3m at 30 June 2015). Agree that being in the Champions League is important for them, but they are so big that it's less of an issue than with many other clubs.

Shows the gap in football though really, Man Utd total annual revenue is £515m, over 103 times what CCFC's is and 16 times Wasps!

United have net debt at 30 June 2016 of £261m (i.e. nearly half of their annual turnover) whereas Wasps' net debt is £43.4m, 140% of turnover.

My phrasing was poor, and leading down the wrong path. I was meaning when the Glaziers took them over, and now they appear to have weathered the storm.

Anyway, tbh we're going down something of a digression aren't we? Wasps = knackered = deep joy for the people of Coventry = more success for Coventry Rugby Club as all these new-found rugby fans flock to the Butts, and = Coventry City finding it easier to regain their rightful identity, and = a disincentive for any other sporting club to consider moving in the future.

 

[pastythegreat]

I just wish it'd all happen before Thursday's local elections. People might actually do something about them then.

No chance, were a labour City, always have been, always will be.
People are so stuck in their ways. Always the same. My Father-in-law is a perfect example, last general election he said he was voting labour as he'd done all his life, I asked why? What in general about their manifesto drew you to vote for them? His answer was he didn't know as he hadn't read any manifesto from any party, he just couldn't vote Tory as he was working class and had always voted labour.
Minions. Nothing more, nothing less.

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[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Hate to see the others then

So they looked at all these sites and this one was the least rubbish? You don't do yourself any favours slavishly adhering to anything that Wasps come up with. Presumably if they did go back to London you would follow them there.

 

[Grendel]

They got the debt to the taxpayer cleared. Can’t imagine it will effect them at all.

The only reason there was any debt was because they took the loan. Promises of jobs, revenue for the City, regeneration, starts if the art training facilities in Coventry, partners in the City of Culture....

 

[covmark]

So they looked at all these sites and this one was the least rubbish? You don't do yourself any favours slavishly adhering to anything that Wasps come up with. Presumably if they did go back to London you would follow them there.

Of course he wouldn't. There'd be no financial benefit for him if Wasps move back to London.

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[fernandopartridge]

As much as I have no time for Lucas and cronies, I think the reality is that their decision making is led by their officers (that's Martin Reeves and Chris West primarily). We know from statements in the press that it'd have been no different had we got a Conservative led council, they'd have been just as keen to get Wasps on board particularly given all the case that the council officers would put forward on Wasps' behalf.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As much as I have no time for Lucas and cronies, I think the reality is that their decision making is led by their officers (that's Martin Reeves and Chris West primarily). We know from statements in the press that it'd have been no different had we got a Conservative led council, they'd have been just as keen to get Wasps on board particularly given all the case that the council officers would put forward on Wasps' behalf.

It's true. In many ways, maybe even more so as it'd fit in with a policy of divesting land assets in return for cash.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's true. In many ways, maybe even more so as it'd fit in with a policy of divesting land assets in return for cash.

Indeed, I think the Tories were never a fan of the council shareholding in ACL

 

[clint van damme]

imagine ccfc fans joining crfc fans to pack at ricoh against wasps

I know next to nothing about rugby but I am told that it's a big gap to bridge, bigger than between the championship and the premier.

 

[Liquid Gold]

It’s a shame we don’t have a primary system so we could vote them out in favour of it different labour candidates.