Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (44 Viewers)

[SkyblueDad]

Surely the council would make the most money by taking back the lease and reselling it? And if ACL was going to be liquidated then wouldn’t the lease return anyway, or would it be sold by the liquidators? And I thought ACL wasn’t in admin?

Hope everything comes out because all this Twitter randoms “I heard from a mate” is doing my head in. Why can’t Gilbert ask these questions?

Perhaps he has but can’t print the answers….yet.

 

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[usskyblue]

Jesus H.. someone’s in

 

[shmmeee]

Perhaps he has but can’t print the answers….yet.

Why wouldn’t he be able to print the answers? Isn’t that the point of being a journalist? The biggest thing for me is still Dawkins complaint. If he’s been stopped from bidding before exclusivity that’s a lot more explosive than what he actually said. Also Gilbert going on Facebook looking for upset bond holders focused on exclusivity and not the bid acceptance process, which suggests he doesn’t have anything on that and is hanging it on the Hottiger proposal and the exclusivity clause.

 

[Nick]

How can the Trustee decide if the offer for the Bondholders is the best one before agreeing to drop any charge?
Same with Compass?

 

[rexo87]

Why wouldn’t he be able to print the answers? Isn’t that the point of being a journalist? The biggest thing for me is still Dawkins complaint. If he’s been stopped from bidding before exclusivity that’s a lot more explosive than what he actually said. Also Gilbert going on Facebook looking for upset bond holders focused on exclusivity and not the bid acceptance process, which suggests he doesn’t have anything on that and is hanging it on the Hottiger proposal and the exclusivity clause.

He didn’t even claim that he had been stopped from bidding before exclusivity so I don’t think there’s anything to investigate there


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[SkyblueDad]

Well as a journalist it is his job to dig for answers he might have them he might not but I’d think he would have to be pretty sure before going into print. To be honest personally I don’t think he’s done much other than speculate.

 

[Philosoraptor]

There were ideas and plans for that area when the ground was first thought of years ago.

The new Woolworths will be excellent.

 

[fernandopartridge]

All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?

Yes, why would Richardson (a lifelong property developer) want to run a rugby club if he could avoid it?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To think that CCFC paid to keep the stadium running for 2 weeks is ridiculous. They paid for maybe 1 game to go ahead and then the money Ashley paid to be preferred bidder was used to keep it going surely. And this wasn’t done out of the kindness of his heart, if he hadn’t it looked like ACL was going into liquidation and he wouldn’t have had my preferred bidder time for due diligence


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They didn’t just pay for 1 game

 

[wingy]

They didn’t just pay for 1 game

No I don't think it was either , but for the record how much on top of the rent for pitch repairs was it ?

 

[MalcSB]

Could just mean the NDA’s are holding up.

Using logic why would MA be interested in ACL without owning CCFC as well? He can’t be buying it to buy wasps and have us sitting there as tenants. Wasps can’t support ACL and ACL can’t support Wasps, the only reason ACL turns a profit as far as I can see is because CCFC pay rent and bring sizeable footfall to the arena meaning regular income. It’s a meagre profit too. ACL would be operating at loss if it wasn’t for CCFC. I might be wrong but ACL only makes sense with CCFC combined.

He isn’t buying Wasps

 

[shmmeee]

Could just mean the NDA’s are holding up.

Using logic why would MA be interested in ACL without owning CCFC as well? He can’t be buying it to buy wasps and have us sitting there as tenants. Wasps can’t support ACL and ACL can’t support Wasps, the only reason ACL turns a profit as far as I can see is because CCFC pay rent and bring sizeable footfall to the arena meaning regular income. It’s a meagre profit too. ACL would be operating at loss if it wasn’t for CCFC. I might be wrong but ACL only makes sense with CCFC combined.

I’d imagine the vast majority of ACL revenue is concerts and expos isn’t it? The footfall is great for the Anecdote and the casino, but the hotel, offices, expo spaces wouldn’t really rely on it, surely?

 

[tisza]

Could just mean the NDA’s are holding up.

Using logic why would MA be interested in ACL without owning CCFC as well? He can’t be buying it to buy wasps and have us sitting there as tenants. Wasps can’t support ACL and ACL can’t support Wasps, the only reason ACL turns a profit as far as I can see is because CCFC pay rent and bring sizeable footfall to the arena meaning regular income. It’s a meagre profit too. ACL would be operating at loss if it wasn’t for CCFC. I might be wrong but ACL only makes sense with CCFC combined.

Different deal done for Wasps but needs RFU approval etc.

 

[MalcSB]

Yes, why would Richardson (a lifelong property developer) want to run a rugby club if he could avoid it?

Richardson said, when Wasps moved here, that he wasn’t a property developer and never had been.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Yes, why would Richardson (a lifelong property developer) want to run a rugby club if he could avoid it?

Think those days for Richardson have gone he has had his financial fingers well and truly burnt doing that.

 

[Telfer85]

I’d imagine the vast majority of ACL revenue is concerts and expos isn’t it? The footfall is great for the Anecdote and the casino, but the hotel, offices, expo spaces wouldn’t really rely on it, surely?

Getting Cov to the prem would surely change that though if you owned both?

 

[MalcSB]

The bond holders have raised nearly 21k for legal. Not a huge amount. But more than I expected

Still represents only 6% of nominal value.

 

[wingy]

Richardson said, when Wasps moved here, that he wasn’t a property developer and never had been.

Insurance wasn't it
He may have used other developer's on deal's?

 

[SkyblueDad]

The bond holders have raised nearly 21k for legal. Not a huge amount. But more than I expected

£21k that will probably only get them through the introduction stage.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’d imagine the vast majority of ACL revenue is concerts and expos isn’t it? The footfall is great for the Anecdote and the casino, but the hotel, offices, expo spaces wouldn’t really rely on it, surely?

Looking on companies house ACL & ACL2006 combined profit for 2019 and then 2020 is less than £10k a year. Based on that without our rent and income gained from footfall at matches the Arena is making a loss.

 

[shmmeee]

Getting Cov to the prem would surely change that though if you owned both?

I don’t think so, it’s an increase in footfall and better PR for the arena complex cos we’re in the Prem, but I don’t see how it would change the fundamentals of booking space and developing the land which seems to be where the money is. I’d imagine the casino/Anecdote is pretty full on match days with the current 20k, not sure adding another 10k would make a huge difference.

This is why I’m yet to be convinced that Ashley must want CCFC when he could just take the arena and make money off it.

I am not an arena management specialist though so could be wrong.

 

[wingy]

Looking on companies house ACL & ACL2006 combined profit for 2019 and then 2020 is less than £10k a year. Based on that without our rent and income gained from footfall at matches the Arena is making a loss.

Think they had a year or two where they really sweated the asset and made decent turnover but the rugby side ate into it.

 

[jordan210]

Richardson said, when Wasps moved here, that he wasn’t a property developer and never had been.

Yet now he is a director of his own company that is listed as "Development of building projects" & another one that is " Construction of commercial buildings"

 

[shmmeee]

Looking on companies house ACL & ACL2006 combined profit for 2019 and then 2020 is less than £10k a year. Based on that without our rent and income gained from footfall at matches the Arena is making a loss.

You got a link? Or even better a screenshot, I can’t read accounts

 

[hill83]

I am not an arena management specialist though so could be wrong.

Desperately trying to find an office gif that fits for this but I can’t.

 

[tisza]

Yet now he is a director of his own company that is listed as "Development of building projects" & another one that is " Construction of commercial buildings"

That the company he set up to apply for the building grant?

 

[chiefdave]

Richardson said, when Wasps moved here, that he wasn’t a property developer and never had been.

One of Wasps directors attended a property development expo and describe Wasps as a property development company that just happened to have a rugby club attached.

 

[jordan210]

That the company he set up to apply for the building grant?

He set up 3 companies

ARENA QUARTER COVENTRY LTD - Other letting and operating of own or leased real estate
AQ 1 LIMITED - Development of building projects
AQ 2 LIMITED - Construction of commercial buildings

I assume the grant for the common wealth stuff was used by this company he set up

COMMONWEALTH CONVENTION CENTRE LTD - Letting and operating of conference and exhibition centres

 

[Nick]

Mainly COVID years that severely disrupted the conference/expo business side

Was it making loads before then?

 

[The Philosopher]

Was it making loads before then?

It’s hard to actually know when there’s a group structure. Often lots of internal charges and movements mean / tax / profit / loss for one component is hard to identify

 

[wingy]

Th

Was it making loads before then?

Think they had a couple approaching /£30M turnover, Wasps skimming off to support rugby side.

 

[Nick]

One of Wasps directors attended a property development expo and describe Wasps as a property development company that just happened to have a rugby club attached.

Didn't people from the Council and Wasps go out to the South of France to promote property specifically?

 

[jordan210]

One of Wasps directors attended a property development expo and describe Wasps as a property development company that just happened to have a rugby club attached.

Is that Mark Rigby who Is/was the Present of wasps.

Who happens to be a Chartered Surveyor.

 

[wingy]

Didn't people from the Council and Wasps go out to the South of France to promote property specifically?

Council always have I think.

 

[MusicDating]

Surely the council would make the most money by taking back the lease and reselling it? And if ACL was going to be liquidated then wouldn’t the lease return anyway, or would it be sold by the liquidators? And I thought ACL wasn’t in admin?

Hope everything comes out because all this Twitter randoms “I heard from a mate” is doing my head in. Why can’t Gilbert ask these questions?

That would have definitely triggered legal action by the bondholders. And I'd guess would have meant a buyer paying more than via a pre-pack without paying the bondholders back, otherwise why would MA have paid £1.2m for exclusivity...