Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alkhen
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I mean the biggest income we’re going to get for the foreseeable will be for Gyo, O’Hare and Hamer. Even if they were all sold in January, I’m not sure we get £20 million and even then it won’t all be in one sum.
Ashley can offer any price and all at once.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I would hope before Christmas
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
You might well be right. Is there any reason for him to contact SISU before he has got the stadium anyway? Getting that will strengthen his bargaining power to buy the club so it might be a prudent move.
I just hope we don't have another stand off. Last time SISU pathetically lost the stadium was what, eight years ago? They're still here. I really don't want another circus between Ashely and SISU via Northampton, Birmingham, and League 1.
Calista
Well-Known Member
Your mother is buying the club?
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
Way more. SISU will want their debts paid.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
There was always a chance of Wasps going bust and getting the ground on the cheap. There is no chance at all of Ashley going bust and he clearly wants to start some new projects. They are never going to get a better chance at recovering a big chunk of their investment
WestEndAgro
Well-Known Member
So the "Fat lady" hasnt sung, not even rocked up yet, let alone cleared her throat.
If anything the water's seem murkier than ever.
Everything seems to have a "yer but" attached.
If anything the water's seem murkier than ever.
Everything seems to have a "yer but" attached.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
How about this:
MA pays £30m for 51% of the club.
The other 49% stays with SISU at 4% over LIBOR or similar and redeemed at promotion to PL for say, 30m
That way SISU don’t have control and haven’t damaged their balance sheet.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I agree with you, but I think it would be unwise after experiencing SISU as owners for so long, to assume they have the same thought process. Let's hope common sense prevails.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I reckon fat lady was in the recording studio earlier and has laid down an album.
Well, this is the issue.
If someone like Mike Ashley wants the Ricoh, yet still doesn't want the club, then its highly unlikely that we are an appealing asset to anyone.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
It actually says 3 years.
The Ground
15. The Phoenix Entity will need to provide evidence satisfactory to the RFU that it will be entitled to use the usual home ground of the insolvent Club for a minimum of three years and enter into any lease or licence required by the RFU to ensure this.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I am not saying it means they will sell up. But FFS, if they don’t go now they really will be here till Seppalla dies
hill83
Well-Known Member
I don’t know what LIBOR means.
I’m sticking with ‘reckons’ and ‘big Mike’s’ for now.
Skyblue_CP
Well-Known Member
I doubt a man of Ashley’s purse size will be bowing to any demands from SISU
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I don’t really give a shit, other than who knows what might have been agreed as part of the sale of ACL and the pitch did look quite nice last night.
duffer
Well-Known Member
So having looked on the RFU site about 'phoenix' clubs, the regulations say this....
The primary considerations for the RFU if the Club wishes to transfer its membership and
league position to a Phoenix Entity are:
• Will the Phoenix Entity be able to play at its current ground next season and beyond?
.... other stuff about proving funding... and ...
• The circumstances of each Insolvency Event are likely to be different, and therefore the
RFU may take any other matters into consideration it sees fit.
So basically no hard and fast rule about two years, and enough flex in the regulations to allow Wasps to do what they want, basically.
So they could set up here again, I guess, or they could put together a story about returning to their "ancestral roots" that I'm sure the RFU would accept without hesitation. Obviously that moves away from their 'nomad club' bullshit when they moved here, but hey, that was then and this is now.
(Edit: Though further down it does talk about three years at the current ground, as @MalcSB pointed out in fairness. But everything we've seen about the RFU so far suggests they'll bend their own rules to suit themselves - I don't see them obstructing a Wasps move back to London).
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Can see the SISU/CCFC press release already…
Disappointed in preferred bidder process that didn’t give the football team a chance to own their own stadium
However, willing to work with new owner and business as usual etc
Reminder the club are developing their own ground with Warwick University.
As an aside… Ashley is going to sweat the fuck out of the Arena and conference facility. It’s what he does best and knows he has to absolutely max out on its potential. It will be wall to wall events and if he wants Monster Trucks there in July then he will have them and the football club will wish they had Wasps back.
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Disappointed in preferred bidder process that didn’t give the football team a chance to own their own stadium
However, willing to work with new owner and business as usual etc
Reminder the club are developing their own ground with Warwick University.
As an aside… Ashley is going to sweat the fuck out of the Arena and conference facility. It’s what he does best and knows he has to absolutely max out on its potential. It will be wall to wall events and if he wants Monster Trucks there in July then he will have them and the football club will wish they had Wasps back.
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
just a few thoughts & guesses
of course ACL filed for administration there is a deal on the table and the preferred bidder & ACL need to be in control of it. Who else would file that wasnt a threat? I dont think it will take too long to sort out from here assuming no hidden skeletons.
If i were Ashley (assuming that he is the bidder and i see no reason to think otherwise really) the key to any ccfc ambitions he may have is to get hold of the stadium first. He can then wait as long as he wants, might be months could be a couple of years, before getting serious about acquiring CCFC
- CCFC locked into a lease with 8 years to run
- unless CCFC have their own stadium to move to then EFL wont sanction moving again
- everyone man and his dog knows that CCFC are struggling financially. This is something that SISU are going to find hard to change without investors stumping up more funds - not sure that will happen
- time is not on SISU side in terms of investment value. They are not funding player purchases, they are not able to withdraw funds, interest accruing but not getting paid. Debt rising, despite MR's brilliant job so far the risk of relegation remains high because team not funded etc. Players, the ones with high value will need to be sold. I dont see the value of CCFC/Otium increasing greatly from where it is. In fact as a purchaser would need to buy the assets not the company if major players sold overall value could drop
- relegation would certainly lower the value
- he would be in a position to distress the SISU investment simply by doing nothing, knowing he can drive a hard bargain before injecting his own money into the club under his ownership. Whilst taking the rent etc
he will be in a very strong position to obtain CCFC if he wants to simply by owning the stadium
Ashley getting hold of CCFC doesnt immediately get rid of the losses and it may need a year or two to really challenge the top of the Championship. I know everyone wants instant gain but its going to need patience i think
Curious as to who is going to be owning the arena, i doubt it will be Ashley himself, is it the House of Fraser Group via a NewCo ? Would make sense from a group tax point of view. Is it asset purchase (i would think so) or share purchase, i would think that Bondholders, Compass & HMRC are going to be happy with the deal.
If Ashley was no longer a director only a shareholder then the threat of any conflict of interest mitigated i think.
Just because he hasnt immediately chased for CCFC ownership doesnt mean he wont but he doesnt have to rush and it may well suit him to wait imo. I think you have to look at it from an Ashley business point of view not from a CCFC fan one
In terms of the stadium itself. They need to, based on 2020 & 2019 figures, increase turnover whilst not increasing costs. Got to be aiming at minimum £1m pm average i would think. If not got loans to pay interest on then that's going to save over £1m pa. Likely to run at operational break even to begin with but the delapidations will hit the bottom line negatively. At least House of Fraser is a commercial entity not a sports ego trip or hedge fund investor
just thinking out loud
of course ACL filed for administration there is a deal on the table and the preferred bidder & ACL need to be in control of it. Who else would file that wasnt a threat? I dont think it will take too long to sort out from here assuming no hidden skeletons.
If i were Ashley (assuming that he is the bidder and i see no reason to think otherwise really) the key to any ccfc ambitions he may have is to get hold of the stadium first. He can then wait as long as he wants, might be months could be a couple of years, before getting serious about acquiring CCFC
- CCFC locked into a lease with 8 years to run
- unless CCFC have their own stadium to move to then EFL wont sanction moving again
- everyone man and his dog knows that CCFC are struggling financially. This is something that SISU are going to find hard to change without investors stumping up more funds - not sure that will happen
- time is not on SISU side in terms of investment value. They are not funding player purchases, they are not able to withdraw funds, interest accruing but not getting paid. Debt rising, despite MR's brilliant job so far the risk of relegation remains high because team not funded etc. Players, the ones with high value will need to be sold. I dont see the value of CCFC/Otium increasing greatly from where it is. In fact as a purchaser would need to buy the assets not the company if major players sold overall value could drop
- relegation would certainly lower the value
- he would be in a position to distress the SISU investment simply by doing nothing, knowing he can drive a hard bargain before injecting his own money into the club under his ownership. Whilst taking the rent etc
he will be in a very strong position to obtain CCFC if he wants to simply by owning the stadium
Ashley getting hold of CCFC doesnt immediately get rid of the losses and it may need a year or two to really challenge the top of the Championship. I know everyone wants instant gain but its going to need patience i think
Curious as to who is going to be owning the arena, i doubt it will be Ashley himself, is it the House of Fraser Group via a NewCo ? Would make sense from a group tax point of view. Is it asset purchase (i would think so) or share purchase, i would think that Bondholders, Compass & HMRC are going to be happy with the deal.
If Ashley was no longer a director only a shareholder then the threat of any conflict of interest mitigated i think.
Just because he hasnt immediately chased for CCFC ownership doesnt mean he wont but he doesnt have to rush and it may well suit him to wait imo. I think you have to look at it from an Ashley business point of view not from a CCFC fan one
In terms of the stadium itself. They need to, based on 2020 & 2019 figures, increase turnover whilst not increasing costs. Got to be aiming at minimum £1m pm average i would think. If not got loans to pay interest on then that's going to save over £1m pa. Likely to run at operational break even to begin with but the delapidations will hit the bottom line negatively. At least House of Fraser is a commercial entity not a sports ego trip or hedge fund investor
just thinking out loud
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The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
It wouldn’t be a demand, it’s a compromise deal that’d probably work for both parties.
Nick
Administrator
Boring french bloke.
duffer
Well-Known Member
He was the guy who lead everybody along right until the end when he couldn’t manage to transfer the Millions needed “because it was a bank holiday” Derby very nearly went out of business because of him.
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The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
SISU’s best out was to aquire stadium, revalue and then their investment was more realistic and tangible.
Then either sell high or wait for PL fluke.
Surprised they haven’t fought harder.
MA now their best hope. If he doesn’t have the gumption to know that then I’m sure his advisors and strategists do.
Now then, where is that Gary Hoffman….
Exactly. Gilbert’s comments about SISUs interest are just confusing people. He/SISU probably mean if there was nobody else interested and ACL went into administration they'd be willing to pick up the stadium for next to nothing…which in my view has always been their strategy. They’ve never had the will or probably the cash, to buy it at market value hence their actions over the past 10 years
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
SISU seem to have a history of arriving at the party too late or even the wrong party
Not sure why we need Hoffman involved, personally I wouldn't want him to be.
Not sure why we need Hoffman involved, personally I wouldn't want him to be.
Telfer85
Well-Known Member
This is spot on in my opinion even old hairy hands basically alludes to it in his post. “I hope he changes his mind on the latter” almost as if he knows what the long term game is.
Not that I give the bloke any sort of creditability as he’s a vile creature but it does seem to be playing out as he said.
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